Kickstarter for TANGLEWOOD: An original game for the SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive

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Originally Posted by needler420

It will be successful whether the game is good or not. Not how it's marketed.

To me it's a success when the game is independently funded and of quality so it sells itself for profit.

Getting the kickstarter funded would be a success but what happens when it releases and it's a disappointment to backers.

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I'm striving for quality first and foremost, or there's no point me even trying - it will be a feature length game (by '90s standards) with solid core gameplay and enough mechanics, enemies, contraptions and stages to keep the player engaged from start to end, with a carefully written story woven into it. Collectables, secret areas and multiple ways to solve puzzles will keep the game replayable.

The tech demo only shows part of what I have planned, but I hope it shows how dedicated I am to deliver a stable, high fidelity, and high performing game.

It took three years to write and perfect the engine, tools and core gameplay, and to write the rest of the game's design before I even thought about marketing or box art or even the title - it just happens to be the hot topic at the moment.

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Originally Posted by BigEvilCorporation

I'm striving for quality first and foremost, or there's no point me even trying - it will be a feature length game (by '90s standards) with solid core gameplay and enough mechanics, enemies, contraptions and stages to keep the player engaged from start to end, with a carefully written story woven into it. Collectables, secret areas and multiple ways to solve puzzles will keep the game replayable.

The tech demo only shows part of what I have planned, but I hope it shows how dedicated I am to deliver a stable, high fidelity, and high performing game.

It took three years to write and perfect the engine, tools and core gameplay, and to write the rest of the game's design before I even thought about marketing or box art or even the title - it just happens to be the hot topic at the moment.

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This informal road map that you've just detailed was really nice to read. You do come across as being very genuine and you've brought a lot to the table to show what you can do and what you've already done.
And I understand that as an Indie Developer you might not be able to hit every item you're shooting for but what you're trying to do is very worthy of being fully funded.

I went past a "Tanglewood Drive" the other day and was reminded of this game again.

Has this been shared over Nintendoage? They usually love stuff like this.

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Originally Posted by Thunderblaze16

Has this been shared over Nintendoage? They usually love stuff like this.

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I'll give them a shout. Got a nice article on Nintendo Life too!

I made a video playthrough if anyone is interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH9HmO6gaz4

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Originally Posted by avlon

I made a video playthrough if anyone is interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH9HmO6gaz4

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That's amazing, thank you so much!

I'll add it to the next Kickstarter update. I've been pushing around community content as much as possible recently, because my own videos are boring ;)

EDIT: Oh and sorry about the ability to lose a Fuzzl and have to die to restart, I'm working on a way to respawn them without it breaking the 4th wall

Hey Matt,
The kickstarter campaign seems to be stalling at the moment. IMHO the campaign needs a much needed dose of eye popping info!

With 22 days left, what are you planning to do next to garner funding?

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Originally Posted by BigEvilCorporation

That's amazing, thank you so much!

I'll add it to the next Kickstarter update. I've been pushing around community content as much as possible recently, because my own videos are boring ;)

EDIT: Oh and sorry about the ability to lose a Fuzzl and have to die to restart, I'm working on a way to respawn them without it breaking the 4th wall

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Thanks for checking it out! I'm actually working on something (that I think) is pretty cool featuring a snippet of gameplay from this video. Eventually, my plan is to share it with the community. I'll PM you the details just in case you're interested.

Hey everyone! I just did an interview with Matt this afternoon for my website Gaming Rebellion, it will be released in written form later this week. Matt and I are going to do a second interview which will be via video to be released via YouTube. What we would like to do for the second interview is get questions from the community. I noticed there are some questions already in this thread, but if anyone has any other questions for Matt that you'd like to have answered via video, now is the time to ask. Just ask away and I will take note of the them for the interview next week. I plan on sharing this everywhere I can when it's up. FB, Twitter, Reddit etc. Thanks!

Edit: Here are some images I capped while playing that I will use when promoting:

http://i.imgur.com/xJ3ru2f.png

http://i.imgur.com/sVdSDKF.png

http://i.imgur.com/w7fRrb9.png

http://i.imgur.com/qXfYwfp.png

http://i.imgur.com/yoXWlCx.png

http://i.imgur.com/ooi1I2k.png

http://i.imgur.com/4lCRvUK.png

There has been an update on the ks page. I will be participating as a character pixelartist/animator.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects.../posts/1748954

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Originally Posted by AggroSky

http://i.imgur.com/qXfYwfp.png

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You may want to reconsider using that as a promotional image. Maybe it's just my dirty mind, but it looks like some seriously unpleasant shit is about to go down for that little poof ball. Or maybe it just went down. :huh:

On a lighter note, I really enjoyed the demo for this game and look forward to the final release.

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Originally Posted by Assman

You may want to reconsider using that as a promotional image. Maybe it's just my dirty mind, but it looks like some seriously unpleasant shit is about to go down for that little poof ball. Or maybe it just went down. :huh:

On a lighter note, I really enjoyed the demo for this game and look forward to the final release.

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Thanks for the tip, I see what you mean lol

Considering the expression of that ball, it has already seen things o_o

Hello all!

Yes, the campaign has indeed reached the stagnant middle stage (which I was warned about before starting) - the initial hype has died down and it will likely pick up again towards the end when there's a sense of urgency.

As for the slow middle bit, I've got a few tricks up my sleeve:

- A Facebook and Twitter ads campaign beginning today
- Three videos ready to publish with Computerphile (800k YouTube subscribers) about the dev hardware, Tanglewood's development process and the game itself
- Announcements for two more team members (one from Ocean Software, one from Freedom Planet)
- Some detail into Tanglewood's lore and story
- A Reddit AMA when we hit 50%
- A Twitch stream version of my Mega Drive programming workshop that I ran a few weeks ago at the National Videogame Arcade
- More articles and interviews from the press

I've also been looking into Thunderclap, but I don't quite understand it fully just yet.

Any and all further suggestions welcome.

After much deliberation I've added a £5 tier for the Making of Tanglewood PDF: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...sega-genesis-m

All tiers will come with the ebook, but I can't edit the descriptions of existing rewards once the campaign goes live.

I've also given the ROM file some serious consideration.

Hopefully this will attract Everdrive users, and those wishing to play on handheld emulated devices (PSP, Vita, phones, tablets and such).

It will only be a matter of hours before one of the cartridge holders rips and uploads a ROM, so the piracy concern is something I'll just have to accept anyway, so offering a ROM file won't exacerbate the problem. If anything, it might achieve the well known and widely accepted anti-piracy measure of "provide a better service than the pirates can", by including the Making Of PDF described above,a document helping novices to set up most major emulators on major platforms, and personal technical support (if I can keep up with demand).

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...sega-genesis-m

I've tried to offset the downsides by releasing it with a delay (to let me test it on all emulators and write up support docs for any that run the game badly).

Proud to say I've now backed this project.

I'm up in Sheffield quite regular so I'll buy you a pint as well if you like.

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Originally Posted by crazyteknohed

Proud to say I've now backed this project.

I'm up in Sheffield quite regular so I'll buy you a pint as well if you like.

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SEGA communities are the best communities <3

I would love to support Tanglewood, but canadian dollar is too low right now, i dont have 100$ (60£) for the full genesis game. I invested in copies of project y for half that price. I wish you the best, and hopefully you do better than WM in communications!!

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Originally Posted by BigEvilCorporation

I've also given the ROM file some serious consideration.

Hopefully this will attract Everdrive users, and those wishing to play on handheld emulated devices (PSP, Vita, phones, tablets and such).

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I'm one of those Everdrive users. I think it's a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Barone

I'm one of those Everdrive users. I think it's a good idea.

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Same here. Not that I'm against physical releases, but it's gotten to the point where I even play the games I own on my ED. The joy of switching out carts has been surpassed by the convenience of pressing a couple buttons on a controller.

Besides, one can easily generate an ID in all the ROMs, being able to tell who leaked it ;)

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Originally Posted by roce

Besides, one can easily generate an ID in all the ROMs, being able to tell who leaked it ;)

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For downloaded releases, sure, but a unique ID per mask ROM might be a bit tricky.

I don't want to go creating a Mega Drive DRM system! Reddit would send bees to my house.

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Originally Posted by BigEvilCorporation

I don't want to go creating a Mega Drive DRM system! Reddit would send bees to my house.

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A shame. You could've done something truly evil, such as making the ROM actually be an FPGA chip with the game inside, and it's own painful to emulate functions. And the ability to persecute emulator authors for cloning your own unique FPGA design.

You know it's tempting. ;)

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Originally Posted by Assman

Same here. Not that I'm against physical releases, but it's gotten to the point where I even play the games I own on my ED. The joy of switching out carts has been surpassed by the convenience of pressing a couple buttons on a controller.

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The same here

I also do this. I love that I can own an original game and run a backup somehow. All my stuff runs from one backup or another to keep the originals nice.

EDIT Except Pier Solar of course.

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Originally Posted by Flygon

A shame. You could've done something truly evil, such as making the ROM actually be an FPGA chip with the game inside, and it's own painful to emulate functions. And the ability to persecute emulator authors for cloning your own unique FPGA design.

You know it's tempting. ;)

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That wifi cart someone made recently could auth against EA servers and require an Origin account.

Pier Solar does *something* clever to obstruct basic cart copiers, not looked into the details though.

Pier just uses a custom mapper, which the Everdrive authors refuse to implement because the game is still for sale. Most emulators don't implement it either.

Pier Solar uses a custom mapper and copiers will have an awful time if they don't take it into account. Same shit happens with bootleg stuff (which ironically tends to be way more DRM'd than any official release ever). I know Super Mario World 64 goes as far as encrypting the ROM (mind you, it was a relatively simple one and that was cracked already, but made things a pain in the ass until then).

EDIT: ninja'd

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Originally Posted by roce

Pier just uses a custom mapper, which the Everdrive authors refuse to implement because the game is still for sale. Most emulators don't implement it either.

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I'm glad Everdrive are on board, that's super cool of them.

I'll look into protection for further releases, but this is my first cartridge and I need as much exposure/backers as possible so I'll put the ROM out there. Maybe by the end of this game I'll have some real figures to show whether or not piracy has been a problem.

18 days and counting! Matt, you need to figure out a way to jumpstart this kickstarter. There are alot of people who are willing to invest in the game but the price point may be scaring off investors (see Prezz's comment). The question you should be asking yourself is this: If I was a consumer, what added value (perks etc.) would I beget for the price point that I am willing to pay.

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Originally Posted by SEGA.GENESIS1989

18 days and counting! Matt, you need to figure out a way to jumpstart this kickstarter. There are alot of people who are willing to invest in the game but the price point may be scaring off investors (see Prezz's comment). The question you should be asking yourself is this: If I was a consumer, what added value (perks etc.) would I beget for the price point that I am willing to pay.

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At this point it would need to be low cost, high yield rewards - the cart package cost can't really go up or I can't afford to ship them. The ROM version and Making Of PDF has already brought in a fresh load of backers, so I'll think more along those lines - high res wallpapers and other digital niceties, and the soundtrack as a package? I might be able to stretch to a CD version.

Info burst will be written up this evening, detailing the lore of Tanglewood and where Nymn came from.

Bear in mind it's natural for Kickstarters to have a dip in the middle, and pick up again when you can remind people "Only X days left, folks!"

Not that I won't step up my game, of course...

Still more press to come, some high profile YouTube videos to publish, a Reddit AMA this Sunday, and also Steam Greenlight campaign for the PC version which should bring in a few clicks.

Yeah I find it strange that people are complaining about the price point. It's completely fair and in line with what 16-bit games cost to produce. It ain't cheap people! I mean, if I recall, I paid around $80 US for my copy of Pier Solar, CIB. People need to realize that this game isn't Papi Commando (no offense to that game) or a cheap port, it's a completely new game built from the ground up on the Sega Genesis, using an actual Sega Genesis Dev Kit and aiming for the type of quality you'd find in the early 90's Disney games. You aren't going to get that for $30.

Also, while people are expressing concern for the Kickstarter, I am actually really impressed that it's half way to it's goal with more than half it's time remaining. This is how Kickstarter works. The Toejam and Earl Kickstarter last year was no different. It stalled out about half way through but rallied the last week to end up not only funding, but hitting some of the stretch goals as well. Don't worry, this game will fund.

So quit complaining people, beg borrow and steal and let's get this thing backed! :D

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Originally Posted by AggroSky

Also, while people are expressing concern for the Kickstarter, I am actually really impressed that it's half way to it's goal with more than half it's time remaining. This is how Kickstarter works. The Toejam and Earl Kickstarter last year was no different. It stalled out about half way through but rallied the last week to end up not only funding, but hitting some of the stretch goals as well. Don't worry, this game will fund.

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Nearly all pledges come in the first and last couple of days, so yeah (makes one wonder why they're a whole month long, just to give a chance to spread the word at this point?)

I'd have shortened it to 5 days if I could, I am not sleeping well right now :(

Working day and night to promote this thing so don't worry too much. There's a *lot* of noise about it on Facebook, Twitter, forums, blogs and the occasional podcast, and my phone won't stop ringing for interviews. Let's hope those page views convert to actual pledges in the end.

Anyone done a Reddit AMA before? I've got a fairly good idea of how to approach it but some personal experiences would be helpful.

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Yeah I find it strange that people are complaining about the price point. It's completely fair and in line with what 16-bit games cost to produce. It ain't cheap people! I mean, if I recall, I paid around $80 US for my copy of Pier Solar, CIB.

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The price point is too high and the reward tiers needed more thought. It's not evenly enough distributed, you need to use a stack method so that every tier offers an additional item on top of the previous tier. Doing this would allow other incentives to help raise the target and mean that success wasn't entirely reliant on the higher tiers.

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People need to realize that this game isn't Papi Commando (no offense to that game) or a cheap port, it's a completely new game built from the ground up on the Sega Genesis, using an actual Sega Genesis Dev Kit and aiming for the type of quality you'd find in the early 90's Disney games. You aren't going to get that for $30.

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Indeed it's bigger than Papi Commando but sometimes you need to face facts and develop these things in your spare time and then bring them to Kickstarter (I know that's been the case for this game!). Pier Solar was a special case which luckily had a few years with a full team behind it including a technical guy who understood electronics, branding and package design. Water Melon made little profit from the first game it was the HD version that brought it back to life.

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Also, while people are expressing concern for the Kickstarter, I am actually really impressed that it's half way to it's goal with more than half it's time remaining. This is how Kickstarter works. The Toejam and Earl Kickstarter last year was no different. It stalled out about half way through but rallied the last week to end up not only funding, but hitting some of the stretch goals as well. Don't worry, this game will fund.

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20k is actually very respectable for something like this. I don't think you can compare this to the Toejam and Earl Kickstarter as that was a brand new game for PC not an old school mega drive game with support play via emulation on PC. We're a relatively small community compared to the PC market, so have no where near the potential investment power! I personally think we've reached a saturation point but we'll have to wait and see what (if) a surge at the end helps. Based on current trends that would be approximately 6k maybe 10k at a push.

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Originally Posted by AggroSky

Yeah I find it strange that people are complaining about the price point. It's completely fair and in line with what 16-bit games cost to produce. It ain't cheap people! I mean, if I recall, I paid around $80 US for my copy of Pier Solar, CIB. People need to realize that this game isn't Papi Commando (no offense to that game) or a cheap port, it's a completely new game built from the ground up on the Sega Genesis, using an actual Sega Genesis Dev Kit and aiming for the type of quality you'd find in the early 90's Disney games. You aren't going to get that for $30.

Also, while people are expressing concern for the Kickstarter, I am actually really impressed that it's half way to it's goal with more than half it's time remaining. This is how Kickstarter works. The Toejam and Earl Kickstarter last year was no different. It stalled out about half way through but rallied the last week to end up not only funding, but hitting some of the stretch goals as well. Don't worry, this game will fund.

So quit complaining people, beg borrow and steal and let's get this thing backed! :D

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I disagree with most of what you said but matteus already addressed most of what I had in mind.
I just would like to add that, no, I didn't pay USD 80.00 for Pier Solar; it was USD 50-60 for the most units sold I think and the project has a completely different story to the point that I consider the comparison really pointless.

The "quit complaining" part is a bit annoying too. I think people are trying to express valid criticism here and voicing it in order to help the campaign to be successful.

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Originally Posted by Barone

I disagree with most of what you said but matteus already addressed most of what I had in mind.
I just would like to add that, no, I didn't pay USD 80.00 for Pier Solar; it was USD 50-60 for the most units sold I think and the project has a completely different story to the point that I consider the comparison really pointless.

The "quit complaining" part is a bit annoying too. I think people are trying to express valid criticism here and voicing it in order to help the campaign to be successful.

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In all honesty I've seen mostly negative feedback and nitpicking in this thread, whether people are meaning to or not (although some have been very nice and supportive). I thought this was supposed to be "the" place for Sega Genesis related content? I get that some people won't be able to afford a physical cart, but he is offering plenty of other options, including a ROM that you can use on an emulator for $25, a PC version for $15, or a cart only for around $60. That sounds reasonable to me, especially when you were paying these types of prices back in the 90's anyway. Phantasy Star 2 back in 1990 was $79.99! People just like to complain and everyone seems to know better than the guy actually running the campaign, that's what bugs me. Or at least how a lot of these comments are coming across to me. Maybe I'm wrong...

I think the problem with Kickstarter is that backers now feel entitled to "rewards" for backing a project. Isn't simply receiving the game enough? We live in the year 2016! The fact that anyone wants to create new games for any old system is a miracle IMO. Matt needs money in order to make this work, and he is focused on creating a good game, not spending countless hours shipping out silly plastic rewards to people on top of producing the cartridges. You know, I used the Toejam and Earl kickstarter campaign as an example because it was still based on a 25 year old 16-bit property. Greg and I talked about it a lot as it was panning out and he was equally as miffed about how negative and demanding people were about certain things. Granted, in the end he pulled it off and it was successful, but he had to give away SO much just to get the game funded. People just expect so much, it's that simple IMO.

We ought to be celebrating that there are two new Sega Genesis games on Kickstarter right now, not dissecting why they will fail (although Coffee Crisis will likely fund by tonight). I get that a lot of you are providing advice and constructive criticism, and that's nice. But I feel like poor Matt is having to defend and explain himself at every turn. The game is half way to being funded with half the time left in the campaign. I truly believe it will fund and we will see this game come to fruition. But for you people on the fence and saying it's too much money, you can at least chip in $15 to get yourself a PC copy and support it. If you are posting on this forum that should be a given.

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Originally Posted by AggroSky

In all honesty I've seen mostly negative feedback and nitpicking in this thread, whether people are meaning to or not (although some have been very nice and supportive). I thought this was supposed to be "the" place for Sega Genesis related content?

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First of all, in my honest opinion it would be better if you replied directly to the ones or to the post parts you think are just negative feedback and nitpicking, 'cause the way you put it in your previous post and this last one sound like you're putting everyone in the same bag and I'm pretty sure I don't agree with every criticism or question presented in this thread. So there's that.

Now, in a second thought, what about that is related to "this was supposed to be "the" place for Sega Genesis related content" is probably a bit beyond me.
It's pretty cool that someone is trying to accomplish what Matt is trying to do here but if you think you'll come with your cool project to Sega-16 and have zero criticism; man, you're coming with the wrong expectations.
And, to be honest with you, despite some nitpicking here and there; I think people are being quite positive towards this project. WM took a LOT MORE flak from Sega-16 with anything they did or announced; you may have a look at the beginning of the MGF thread if you want to have a sample.

I'm fine with that; I don't think we have to be blind about whatever initiatives shortcomings or missed opportunities; we're not really the best ass kissers out there.

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Originally Posted by AggroSky

I get that some people won't be able to afford a physical cart, but he is offering plenty of other options, including a ROM that you can use on an emulator for $25, a PC version for $15, or a cart only for around $60. That sounds reasonable to me, especially when you were paying these types of prices back in the 90's anyway. Phantasy Star 2 back in 1990 was $79.99! People just like to complain and everyone seems to know better than the guy actually running the campaign, that's what bugs me. Or at least how a lot of these comments are coming across to me. Maybe I'm wrong...

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I don't think anyone here said the price itself was unreasonable or that the game wouldn't worth it.
But if I'm to give you an opinion about the campaign, I tell you the tiers are a bit pricey compared to what I've seen and in terms of what I think would work best to be attractive for his audience. And, by saying that, I'm not saying those prices are unfair or unreal - 'cause I'm aware of the kind of development and care he's putting into this project, it's not something easy nor cheap to do.

About having experience running the campaign, yes, I'm not running the campaign but IMO you're dismissing some valuable feedback this audience is giving to Matt (and which he has heard patiently and replied in a very professional, polite manner IMO) way too easy, way too early.
The community also has a knowledge and it shouldn't be dismissed. This isn't the first kickstarter campaign we've been through and it certainly won't be the last; we've had our good chunk of broken dreams in the past and nobody here is willing to see it not meet its goal.

Projects coming from scratch (without some big brand recognition related to it - like "Oh, the former Mega Man developers" or whatever) and targeted mostly at the Genesis/Mega Drive fanbase aren't easy to fund at all. Also, the number of late adopters in projects like these and something targeted at PS4/PC/etc is very different.

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Originally Posted by AggroSky

I think the problem with Kickstarter is that backers now feel entitled to "rewards" for backing a project. Isn't simply receiving the game enough? We live in the year 2016! The fact that anyone wants to create new games for any old system is a miracle IMO. Matt needs money in order to make this work, and he is focused on creating a good game, not spending countless hours shipping out silly plastic rewards to people on top of producing the cartridges.

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I agree with this and this one of the reasons I'm asking you to not generalize the criticism.
I'm sick and tired of people focusing so much in packaging, in having CIB versions of each and every game/homebrew project, etc. However, I still think it's valid to hear the fussiest people's comments in such regard in order to know what kind of details they pay attention to. Some stuff may be easy to accomplish, some other details may be completely off; that's still up to Matt's decision IMO and I really don't like to see people coming here and try to silence off questions and criticism even if I don't agree with the criticism and I don't see the importance in those questions/details.

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Originally Posted by AggroSky

You know, I used the Toejam and Earl kickstarter campaign as an example because it was still based on a 25 year old 16-bit property. Greg and I talked about it a lot as it was panning out and he was equally as miffed about how negative and demanding people were about certain things. Granted, in the end he pulled it off and it was successful, but he had to give away SO much just to get the game funded. People just expect so much, it's that simple IMO.

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1) Toejam had a solid name attached to good memories to a lot of people.
2) The audience of that campaign was much wider.

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Originally Posted by AggroSky

We ought to be celebrating that there are two new Sega Genesis games on Kickstarter right now, not dissecting why they will fail (although Coffee Crisis will likely fund by tonight). I get that a lot of you are providing advice and constructive criticism, and that's nice. But I feel like poor Matt is having to defend and explain himself at every turn. The game is half way to being funded with half the time left in the campaign. I truly believe it will fund and we will see this game come to fruition. But for you people on the fence and saying it's too much money, you can at least chip in $15 to get yourself a PC copy and support it. If you are posting on this forum that should be a given.

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Coffee Crisis' goal is much lower than Tanglewood's IIRC; that changes the picture quite a bit. Your audience here has a pretty limited number; if you need 100-200 backers to succeed it's something; if you need 500-600 backers then it's a whole new ball game IMO.

I'm fine with your view while I disagree with it. I'm not fine when you seem to act towards silencing people who think in a different way of yours.
This is a forum after all, people are free to voice their opinions whatever they are and there's no such a thing as only positive response unless you have shutdown the dissonant voices, and that's not really positive IMO.