But it is a complete waste of my time, which I do not appreciate. Make it the same difficulty, sure, but don't make it take so damn long and don't make me replay so much just to get there. That's just stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebbe
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But it is a complete waste of my time, which I do not appreciate. Make it the same difficulty, sure, but don't make it take so damn long and don't make me replay so much just to get there. That's just stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebbe
If it's a complete waste of your time to redo things maybe you should have played better the first time, or just never ever play a game where there is a risk you lose nor replay any game you have played before. The final battle is not very long compared to other final battles in many RPGs and I've never seen any giving you the chance to interrupt it for saving (except in Grandia 2 perhaps, but not Grandia 1).Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Redifer
ALL Phantasy Star games feature much shorter last battles and if I recall most or all of them allow you to save right before the final battle (not during, I do not mean during). I was fighting the whore for at least 25 minutes and that's not counting the nobody I had to beat before her I think it was her bastard son or some such. I have to beat him AGAIN to get to her which is just stupid. If I didn't have to do that, I probably wouldn't complain as much. Remember, you helped develop the game and people are not going to always play it as you envisioned they would. It really is discouraging. If you can't figure out why that would be discouraging, then perhaps you fail as a developer.
You're right, I should have grinded more. This game is a grind-fest!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebbe
You don't seem to understand the difference between "challenging" (which makes you want to keep trying) and "hard" (which discourages players).
That was my experience with the ice bridges, especially in the last dungeon. I had to retry that one bridge in the final dungeon at least 50 times before I finally got across. By that time I had spent so much time falling down the waterfall and having to go back up (and fight along the way) that by the time I reached the final boss I was so over-leveled that she was hardly a challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Redifer
Point is, I want to put in a second playthrough because I know I missed some things and would love to play through most of the game again, but the thing that's really discouraging me is the thought of having to do those damn ice bridges again. It's really not doing wonders for the replay value IMO.
OK, Grandia 1 has a three part final boss battle. When you have beat the first one, you get some items and then can walk to the final two. You cannot save, you have to beat all three in a row. It's kinda like that in the world famous best selling award winning perfectly flawless Final Fantasy games as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Redifer
How much time are we talking about totally? Maybe 1 hour. That's around what it took to me every friggin' time I died on the last stage in Super Shinobi II before I beat it. I really hated the game until I beat it, it pissed me off with all the trial and error, leaps of faith etc. But that's part of the charm. I never give up. The game really motivated me to keep trying, harder and harder. It gave me a great rewarding feeling in the end, that I can accomplish things just if I try hard enough. And I actually enjoyed playing the earlier stages again, that's what makes a game replayable.Quote:
I was fighting the whore for at least 25 minutes and that's not counting the nobody I had to beat before her I think it was her bastard son or some such. I have to beat him AGAIN to get to her which is just stupid. If I didn't have to do that, I probably wouldn't complain as much.
No matter how I would have developed the game with the rest of WaterMelon, there would have been people who had complained, wanted the game harder or easier, this or that. Some people have said the final boss battle is a cakewalk, you are the first I see who complain about it being too hard, while some just said it was hard but not so much that it frustrated them. This is why I'm glad, your opinion makes a good balance since I didn't want the final battle to be too easy.Quote:
Remember, you helped develop the game and people are not going to always play it as you envisioned they would. It really is discouraging. If you can't figure out why that would be discouraging, then perhaps you fail as a developer.
Not a problem to me, I like a lot of grind-fest RPGs, for example Phantasy Star II and Final Fantasy IV. I don't consider this game to be a grind-fest though, I can beat it without grinding a single battle, but then again I'm a developer for it.Quote:
You're right, I should have grinded more. This game is a grind-fest!
True maybe, but that is because I want games to be hard. I wouldn't have enjoyed Streets of Rage II as much if "mania" wasn't there and Alien Soldier not as much if "Super Hard" wasn't there.Quote:
You don't seem to understand the difference between "challenging" (which makes you want to keep trying) and "hard" (which discourages players).
I never said I wouldn't try it again. I definitely will, it just seems more like a chore. It's not that I expect to win right away, it's just that I don't want to spend a ton of time selecting menu commands for what amounts to nothing. I don't remember the last stage in Shinobi 3 hacking me off too much.
Hard ≠ fun. Challenging does, however. That's the cool thing about Streets of Rage 2 and Alien Soldier. For example, Streets of Rage 2 is nearly a cakewalk on the normal difficulty, but if you want to test yourself you can select a harder level. If you REALLY want to test yourself, you select MANIA. You are not forced to play through on MANIA. I've never seen an RPG with a difficulty select (that would be weird). I tend to think of RPGs more as digital movies or books than games. I don't think that someone who likes to play through games on MANIA should be deciding on the difficulty of games that other people play unless you can also provide the motivation. And that's just it, I don't feel motivated to try again, I will force myself, though.
Also, never cared for Final Fantasy. Tried Fantasy Fantasy 5 and 6. Got bored. Bought FF7 when it was released. Got bored. Bought Grandia. Couldn't get very far because I couldn't read the text (Saturn version). Bought Grandia 2. Got fairly far. Got bored. Bought Skies of Arcadia. Got bored REALLY FAST. Bought Shenmue (which most people say is boring as all hell). Loved it to death. Go figure.
Shining Force II has a difficulty select.
Of course I aimed to provide motivation. There is so much hidden stuff you can get through the game to make it "easier". Many optional dungeons with exclusive items, a few sidequests, many easter eggs you can get if you just talk to NPCs... Characters have attacks/magic taught on levels way after what's needed to be at on the final boss, so not only stats give an advantage if you grind. There are a lot of things, but I'm not surprised you missed much of it since you see the genre as a digital book.
Some RPGs are hard, like Phantasy Star II was to me. Some are easy, like Final Fantasy VII is to most. I wanted Pier Solar to be more like Phantasy Star II.
I believe I found/went through most, if not all dungeons and I definitely talked to all NPCs more than once. Not sure what I missed besides Cliboe's pubes and that was just because I wanted to get out of there. But that really isn't "motivation". That's "You found this, so that helps you". You cant really go back and re-find that stuff at this point. The motivation should be to continue from where I am, not from where I was two days ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebbe
"NEVER SURRENDER!"
What the freak is THAT? Galaxy Quest? Is that the movie with Alan Rickman?
yup. Along with Sigourney Weaver, and Tim Allen.
didn't one of the actors in that movie end up on Heroes?
I understand what your saying, Joe, but it´s really just not possible to please everyone. I don´t think this has to do with failing as a developer.
You don´t like FF games and Grandia games for example; yet these are some of the most popular games of the genre ever. Square and GameArts definately did not fail in many peoples´ eyes, yet a few will always feel that way.
BTW, I never heard that many or most people thought Shenmue was boring; actually I feel that it is almost universally praised in communities. Shenmue´s only flaw is that it was topped in every aspect by Shenmue 2. :)
A dev tries to lease as many players as possible. But if you do an RPG and know a player dislikes FF V, VI and VII, Grandia 2 and Skies of Arcadia, then you also know that this specific player is almost impossible to please with a game of the same genre because he seems to dislike what most players love so much about these games and what is regarded as great about the genre in general.
My first gripe, the stupid fucking minigames in the Magic School are really going to keep me from seeing the end of an otherwise awesome gaming experience? You didn't need gimmicks like that in the main plot. A side quest would have been acceptable place for this crap. I've tried for an hour to save my friends from explosive frogs but no more.
What a shame, I really thought this was a must play and now I won't see the end. I like turn-based rpgs because of poor reflex's.
Thanks for nothing!:mad:
Edit: I got through but I'm not one for editing...even if I come off as an ass.
108 Stars, I simply don't like Final Fantasy games so they are just not my taste. However I DO like Pier Solar and I realize I am complaining about some of the "little things". Because I like it is likely why I am complaining about it, I want it to be perfect! I hold it to a higher standard, I really do. And plus, the developers are here. No game can please everyone, but feedback from all is helpful in future products.
As far as Grandia being one of the most popular RPGs, I don't know about that... Also Shenmue is usually bagged on by a lot of people, it just depends on which community you visit. At a forum that covers games in general (not just Sega or retro), then Shenmue has loyal supporters, a bunch of haters and others who don't understand what makes the game a big deal at all. Personally I love how boring that game is. When playing through Shenmue 1 I thought that taking Ryo in to get a haircut would actually be fun. Ryo gets into the barber's chair in part 2. Too awesome.
Synbiosfan, I feel ya, man. I was extremely frustrated at that part as well. Most people claim the ice bridge is the toughest part, but I found the 3rd box puzzle the worst.
I really don't understand people complaining about the ice bridge near the end of the game. It's much easier than the magic school trials. The ONLY thing that makes it more challenging is that the rest of you party is following you and you can get mixed up amongst them and take a wrong turn blindly.
Got mine today! And since the dog was inside due to the cold weather, short hair and all, the mailman came right to my front door to give it to me! I'll try it out tomorrow, but the packaging gets an excellent 9.5/10 from me... The 0.5 point deduction was mainly because the way the manual is attached to the case is so weird to me. But it's honestly a minor thing in the end.
Oh yeah, and I'm #247 out of 800 for the N.A. Genesis version.