Pier Solar: Official Thread

Argh... holy crap!

I went into the optional rock cellar and got the book, but I was confused by the fact that I seemed to be trapped and gave up and reset. I was way past the next town before I realized that that book was probably the way out of that area! I desperately tried to get back there, but it seems to be impossible now.

So, have I completely missed my chance to pick that item up?

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Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

The thing is, though, that they didn't need to be hidden anywhere. Just have it appear somewhere else off-screen so the user has to go and look for it, but not look behind walls/pillars for it. The challenge would have still been there, but a lot less frustration would have arisen, for sure.

If I were making a game, I would want the mindset of the player to be similar to this:

GAME: I beat you.

PLAYER: Yes, you did.

GAME: You think you can beat me?

PLAYER: Oh hell yeah, I'm going to try again right now!

And not at all like this:

GAME: I beat you.

PLAYER: You were not playing fair.

GAME: Want to try again?

PLAYER: Go to hell.

In other words, I would want it so that the player is encouraged to keep trying. It is sometimes a difficult thing to do, but I would never want to frustrate the player.

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I would say that's because we are no longer kids and you're not anymore used to challenging stuff.

All old skool games has such "frustrating" things. Once you know them, its too late.

That little platform game was made on purpose, to force people to react and feel like in the 90's when you had to ask your friends for an hint.
Internet let us doing that, that's why its awesome!
;)

The game is overall "easy", there is nothing too crazy about it if you use some strategy. Mind you, its far far far from PS2 difficulty for example. But I guess you already beaten PS2 long time ago as well.
Most cases of failure comes from people thinking a turn based battle system is just about attacking /being attacked / attacking / being attacked. Its not the case in Pier Solar, there is an enormous progress margin due to the gather and defend features. You could be level 50 and get your ass kicked while a player with level 20 and good strategy would kick the last boss without prob.

I think I beat the game at very low level and I suck very very hard at games. And believe, I didn't have any special items. I just used regular gather / defend options to kick all the bosse's asses.

A good challenge would be to have the LOWEST level and finish the game. I'm sure you can do it at level 20 (for this, yeah, you will need the best items ^^).

I would agree that the game is pretty easy once you figure out how to really use the "Gather" option. I'm not a huge RPG player and even I could finish it (it took me more time than people who are used to the genre though). I think the difficulty is well balanced. By saying the game is easy, I absolutely don't mean that it's a piece of cake. It can be very challenging sometimes, but never impossibly hard like PS2.

The hardest part are the little games / tests. The platform one being the easiest of them all. ;)

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Originally Posted by Fonzie

That little platform game was made on purpose, to force people to react and feel like in the 90's when you had to ask your friends for an hint.
Internet let us doing that, that's why its awesome!

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I haven't heard from anyone yet who thinks the hidden platform part is "awesome". Most people think to seem that part is cheap. Fonzie, I know Pier Solar is your baby and you have HUGE reason to be mega-proud of it (I certainly would be), but you have to be open to the fact that sometimes criticism is valid.

Its valid, I do not say its invalid. But again, we made it on purpose and its as challenging as the sonic 3 up/down circus level thing. During betatesting we got 50% people stuck on it a few hours, still, we didn't remove it ;)

Also, did you had the posterity mag? if yes, then look again ;)

I'm also convinced that this part makes the player way more "aware" that the game will have tricky stuff later.

I still think for the last / final megadrive game, we could have been WAY more challenging/frustrating. Because everyone who played it, finished it! That's not normal if you ask me :D Muhahahahaha!

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Originally Posted by Fonzie

Because everyone who played it, finished it! That's not normal if you ask me :D Muhahahahaha!

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THIS!!!! :D

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Originally Posted by username

I don't think your current contest is going to serve as the tipping point that makes or breaks anyones' decision to order the game, for a few reasons: firstly, it's something that requires the sort of active participation that even your diehard fans seem reluctant to bother with; secondly, it requires people to void all the pre-order paraphernalia which brings down their resale value; and thirdly, there's a very real possibility that anyone who orders the reprint isn't going to receive their copy of the game before the contest deadline passes so it won't matter either way. Hell, if the order form on the website is accurate then the reprint edition doesn't even come with the poster, does it? That makes the possibility of reaching 200 entries or however many Fonzie stipulated even more remote.

Let's recap: the contest is only open to those who buy the game and are willing to destroy the resale value of the game, it's not being directly advertised outside of the website/forum and whatever other haunts the WM guys have kept for the last umpteen years, with the entries/results of the contests being made aware only to those who've also been hanging around the usual haunts, and there's a good chance that the contest will be nullified, either due to a lack of interest or due to shipping delays that prevent people from entering in the first place. I mean, if you're not even willing to send out review copies then I can understand why you haven't come up with anything more substantial in terms of promotion, but seriously, don't you think you can do better?

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Resale value isn't important if you've decided to keep your game. The "lost" stickers and/or poster isn't worth more than a customly re-designed and upgraded Nomad. New people reach our website every day since people who bought the game spread the word by videos, reviews, forum posts etc. etc. The new people have the chance to pre-order, like the hundreds already did after the reprint was announced. And we ARE sending out review copies.

Joe Redifer: OK, you have a point, although I don't quite think the hidden platforms caused much frustration to me. Join our next beta testing team to prevent our next game to have these few, but still existing, frustrating moments. Seriously.

I was stuck on the platform thing too for a while. It did get me some extra experience though as in this part of the game it is especially easy to return to a safe place and rest. So even if you are stuck there for a while you are rewarded with easy EXP at least.

I do however agree that some kind of hint would have been good. Like a diary of an adventurer found stating that the solution is where you can't see it.

Also (for people stuck in the rock cellar), yeah, it's a very simple issue with reading books. There should really be a message saying that you have learned spell xyz. I think it is somewhat obvious to check the spell list since the book's description hints at a ladder-function, but a message box would have been good. Especially for later spells only available in battle where checking the menue on maps does not reveal anything.

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Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

GAME: I beat you.

PLAYER: You were not playing fair.

GAME: Want to try again?

PLAYER: Go to hell.

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That's how I feel about PS and the ice bridges. I beat it, I would like to play PS again because I know I missed stuff. But I sure as hell don't want to play thgough those ice bridges again.

There is a strategy guide for those in the end of the Posterity Booklet.

Most important is to not use auto-run and keep the d-pad pressed all the time instead of letting go and just tap.

And you need Valium.

I don't think auto-run makes a difference on the ice bridges as you seem to slide at a set speed, correct? I did turn off auto run for the Shove It box puzzles, though. Unfortunately the game does not let you access the options screen DURING the puzzles for some odd reason, so you have to know in advance that the puzzles are coming up and turn off auto run or just hold B for the entire thing.

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Originally Posted by Fonzie

I'm also convinced that this part makes the player way more "aware" that the game will have tricky stuff later.

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I didn't see anything tremendously tricky later, at least not on par with the hidden platform. The only other thing that would be tricky is having to wander back through the forest to the cabin to get the beaver but at least you are given a hint to "look around". Of course the magic school puzzles can be tricky as well, but you know what you must do.

Hmm just my 2 cents on these 2 challenging parts that people are discussing:

The hidden platform part is OK. (And I'm the one who first asked for advice in the thread, when I got stuck at that part.)

Sure it's easy to be stuck there, BUT it's not impossible. The platform you need IS briefly visible as it flies off to the side of the screen, and then if you chase it, you'll see it go behind the pillar. Then if you go behind the pillar and move around and press A a few times, you should find and use the platform.

Yes it's obscure, but to me, this is NOT cheap or unfair -- because the moving platform is the hint, and so if anyone spent enough time stuck there, they'd be reasonably expected to eventually chase the platform and figure it out IMO.

Also the CD music for that part is just heavenly, so that helps make it more relaxing and enjoyable, and balances out the frustration. (I didn't try the cart music for that part but it's probably beautiful too.)

As for the part with the Lennaei book, I think that's also "fair." I was stuck only because I didn't realize the book made a new spell for Hoston, but after being stuck long enough, I would've eventually noticed it in the list of spells and figured it out. (I got past the area quickly after realizing the book gave him a new spell.)

Also, if parts like this are unfair, then what are they getting compared to? The 16-bit era had tons of games with parts that were extremely challenging, if not almost impossible.

In my personal experience, the only turn-based RPG I've fully played thru is PSIV. I bought it cart-only, and THAT was difficult for a long time: I had to figure out what the attacks and spells did, written in a made-up language, with no descriptions. (While Pier Solar uses real words, and they have descriptions!) Also battles were much more frequent in PSIV, it seems. Also in Pier Solar you can save almost anywhere, a luxury compared to PSIV.

I guess what I'm getting at is that Pier Solar strikes me as slightly less impossible than PSIV, which is the best game ever, and so IMO Pier Solar's difficulty is pretty good. Clearly the developers tried to make many healthy challenges, without it being impossible.

Oh and since we have the internet now, it's hard to call any part of any game impossible or unfair. What was REALLY impossible was having no internet in the 80's and 90's, and often having no guides, and then trying to get through games with open-ended gameplay, and huge worlds to explore. Let's just say it literally took me YEARS to get through The Legend of Zelda, and also Blaster Master. If you couldn't find the right labyrinth (in Zelda) or the next stage (in Blaster Master), there was NO help. You just had to keep wandering aimlessly till finding the right areas, hence those games took my whole childhood to beat them. :cool:

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Originally Posted by ecco

PSIV, which is the best game ever

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Sorry, no. Super Monkey Ball 1 on Gamecube is the best game ever. Or maybe Shenmue 1 + 2.

If you want an unfair game (I guess most of you guys don't), try Wizardry IV. You can't even grind in that game. If you want a fair game, try Legend of Wukong. You will surely grind a lot in the beginning, but the game is very straight forward and there are barely no puzzles or anything that will frustrate you.