Any idea why the NES zapper doesn't work on CRT HDTVs?

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01-31-2017, 11:33 PM
roadkill

Any idea why the NES zapper doesn't work on CRT HDTVs?

I have a Samsung 27' CRT HDTV and before my friend gave it to me, I had thoughts of me using it as the ultimate retro gaming TV, using it for the 8-bit generation all the way up to the 128-bit generation when consoles were just first starting to use component cables for 480i/480p (as well as the Wii). But to my horror, the NES zapper doesn't work on it and the TV seems to have input lag similar to an LCD HDTV.

Any ideas why the NES zapper won't work on my CRT HDTV? Is it because of the input lag? Do they work differently than CRT SDTVs? It supports 240p component input, will my zapper work if I get an NESRGB and play directly on 240p resolution on the CRT HDTV? (because it seems to always upscale 240p to 480i on any other video input besides component)

I must add that all retro consoles with composite output look amazing on this TV including both the NES and the Sega Genesis. My NES front loader shows jailbars on all other TVs but looks amazing on this TV, almost to the point where I feel like I don't even need to mod it for better video output options.
02-01-2017, 01:03 AM
Thierry Henry

When I used to own an HD CRT TV, I could never get light-gun games without a sensor bar to work on it.

Check out this guys messy contraption,
it should apply to CRT HDTV's as well,
02-01-2017, 01:33 AM
Tower of Power

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadkill

I have a Samsung 27' CRT HDTV and before my friend gave it to me, I had thoughts of me using it as the ultimate retro gaming TV, using it for the 8-bit generation all the way up to the 128-bit generation when consoles were just first starting to use component cables for 480i/480p (as well as the Wii). But to my horror, the NES zapper doesn't work on it and the TV seems to have input lag similar to an LCD HDTV.

Any ideas why the NES zapper won't work on my CRT HDTV? Is it because of the input lag? Do they work differently than CRT SDTVs? It supports 240p component input, will my zapper work if I get an NESRGB and play directly on 240p resolution on the CRT HDTV? (because it seems to always upscale 240p to 480i on any other video input besides component)

I must add that all retro consoles with composite output look amazing on this TV including both the NES and the Sega Genesis. My NES front loader shows jailbars on all other TVs but looks amazing on this TV, almost to the point where I feel like I don't even need to mod it for better video output options.

Light guns don't work on CRT HDTVs because the timing of everything (the sensor in the gun, the CPU, the electron beam, etc) are all very dependent on there being no lag, that's how they were designed. If you mess with that timing, everything gets messed up.

Also, as far as I know, there is no such thing as the "128-bit generation," but I assume you mean PS2/DC/Xbox/GCN, which to the best of my knowledge had either 64-bit or 32-bit CPUs, depending on who you ask. Interestingly, I don't believe there's ever been a true 128-bit CPU commercially available. Sure, there might be some individual pieces of these systems that are 128-bit (mainly in the memory department), but the actual CPU itself is not.
02-01-2017, 02:09 AM
roadkill

Thanks for the responses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tower of Power

Also, as far as I know, there is no such thing as the "128-bit generation," but I assume you mean PS2/DC/Xbox/GCN, which to the best of my knowledge had either 64-bit or 32-bit CPUs, depending on who you ask. Interestingly, I don't believe there's ever been a true 128-bit CPU commercially available. Sure, there might be some individual pieces of these systems that are 128-bit (mainly in the memory department), but the actual CPU itself is not.

Yeah I wasn't trying to be dead-on accurate, I was talking about the PS2/DC/Xbox/GCN generation which were essentially the last generation to mention "bits" and those consoles so happened to be called "128-bit". I'm well aware that their CPUs were 32-bit, with the Xbox One/PS4 being the first consoles with the x64-x86 interface as far as I know, and that's still not 128-bit. However, if you look at graphics cards for PCs, they boast about being "256-bit, 384-bit, 512-bit, 768-bit, etc."
02-01-2017, 03:22 AM
Kamahl

I think the '128-bit' thing might come from SIMD instructions, where a single instruction could work on 4 pieces of 32bit data. At least the Xbox supports that for sure. Or it could be a GPU thing. Either way it was stupid.
02-01-2017, 04:24 AM
Guntz

The Dreamcast was marketed in the USA as being a 128-bit console.
02-01-2017, 10:37 AM
roadkill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamahl

I think the '128-bit' thing might come from SIMD instructions, where a single instruction could work on 4 pieces of 32bit data. At least the Xbox supports that for sure. Or it could be a GPU thing. Either way it was stupid.

I agree but you have to remember back then, bits for console marketing was everything. You can say the Genesis/TG-16 started it by both claiming to be 16-BIT and then Nintendo followed up with the SNES claiming it to be 16-bit as well. The PS1 and Saturn were automatically designated 32-bit with Nintendo claiming to one up them by saying the N64 was, well, 64-bit. Hence the first new console after the Nintendo 64 (the Dreamcast) was marketed as 128-bit. The Xbox 360 finally put an end to the 'bits' marketing and it just quietly disappeared. It only really continues now with PC graphics cards but it's nothing like how it used to be in advertisement.

Back on topic, I guess I just have to accept that I have to have a CRT SDTV for light gun games and that's final. My Samsung CRT HDTV does such a great job with composite video and looks fantastic with all other types of video inputs that I can say it is worth the trade off, zapper games aren't all that great anyway. I wonder if the PS1 and PS2 GUNCONs work on it, I should test them out some day (I'm assuming they don't though).
02-01-2017, 12:10 PM
Thierry Henry

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadkill

I wonder if the PS1 and PS2 GUNCONs work on it, I should test them out some day (I'm assuming they don't though).

They did not with mine.

AFAIK, there are sensor bar light-guns that work for the PS2 and original Xbox on any HDTV.
02-01-2017, 04:39 PM
xelement5x

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thierry Henry

When I used to own an HD CRT TV, I could never get light-gun games without a sensor bar to work on it.

Check out this guys messy contraption,
it should apply to CRT HDTV's as well,

This is pretty awesome!