Printable View
Yep its a myth that Western games no longer sell in Japan, even FPS can do well over there. GTA in Japan not only sold better than most of SEGA's Yakuza series, its also sells better than some Mario titles too. Ok I know its the exception to the rule, but some Western games can do well in JapanQuote:
Originally Posted by Gryson
The Amiga was somewhat popular in the USA, particularly the earlier models. It did worse when PCs and Macs kept improving technologically and Commodore was left behind. Plus they had some bad distribution problems later on.
Commodore was a US-based company anyway, so I'm not sure what that means. :p
If anything the fact most people don't even know the Gamecube had any online capabilities would lead me to believe PSO would have a far smaller population on the Gamecube than on Xbox where Online multiplayer was one of it's main selling points. Instead it was the opposite. A good chunk of that population was from Japan, because the Xbox didn't do so well there. Also the bulk of the players who played that game on Dreamcast migrated to the Gamecube version instead of the Xbox version. That gave it a good initial install base and I guess the split screen multiplayer with that game resonated better with Gamecube owners than Xbox owners.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
The monthly subscription was no different than what Dreamcast Version 2 already required. The Broadband adapter was not $60 either. I remember picking mine up in Wal-Mart for around $35. The monthly subscription was also cheaper than Xbox Live and most other online games at the time if I remember correctly. I played that game online for years on Gamecube and later on PC when Blue Burst came out. The Xbox version was a running joke that got funnier as time went on.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
The Xbox version wasn't even that big of a hit elsewhere either. The Gamecube version sold almost 3-4 times what the Xbox version sold world wide and had a bigger online population. Subscription and additional Modem/BBA costs and all. Hell it's even safe to say the Dreamcast versions outsold the Xbox versions.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
Xbox PSO came out late, had some graphical issues, duping was much more of a problem from the get go, it was full of hacks which affected gameplay and people said that others could ruin your character and there were lots of unique hacked items that let people one shot everything.
The Gamecube version's online mode had enough issues as it was, but the Xbox version was ruined by assholes.
It was obvious to anyone who played both at the time why the Gamecube version was the one to play online long term.
The hacking on Gamecube was just as bad if not worse. Duping and stacking where there from the get go as they were the same exploits as what was on the Dreamcast. They weren't fixed until PSO Plus on Gamecube, which didn't really sell that well. Most people playing were playing the original versions. Action Replay was also there on Gamecube, and you can still find codes for it out there. And later that wasn't even needed, you could use your own proxy servers to do more harmful things. Xbox didn't have those issues if I remember correctly, just in game exploits. Just this sound is enough to trigger PTSD in any Gamecube PSO player:Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Tiger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4oLTVHoob4
Yet still the Gamecube version was more successful.
The main reason the Xbox version was a running joke was because Sega didn't run those servers, Microsoft did. So there was sometimes a delay in events happening, or some events just flat out didn't happen. But the best joke was the last one. In a show of complete incompetence Microsoft put up the Christmas lobbies around December 2005, and then deleted the data for all other lobby themes from their servers by accident. As a result, the Xbox servers were stuck on Eternal Christmas until they shut down in 2008
MSX found a small niche in Europe (to the point of Konami actually bothering with language switching in their MSX games), and it was pretty big in Arabic countries actually (since it was one of the few systems that actually supported their writing system, down to including RTL support in their customized BASIC... something that PCs would still get wrong for a long while).Quote:
Originally Posted by Flygon
But yeah, anything that wasn't IBM PC usually only did well in one or two regions. European computers in particular were notorious for rarely having any success outside Europe (or often their origin country), period.
GTA V staying in the Japanese top 20 chart is a common running gag by now. It's still there as of last week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
To be clear, was mostly trying to point out that poor market penetration of otherwise huge has always been a thing. Whether intentionally or not!
PC Engine was larger than Mega Drive in Japan, yet barely made a dent in the US. That's probably the better analogy. Of course, the US is a bigger market than Japan, so MS can stay afloat more than NEC could, especially with the fact that the Xbox isn't even their primary source of revenue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flygon
Over 3500,000 sales in Japan, that's more than any Yakuza 0 or Yakuza 6 in Japan. Its amazing to see Rainbow Six Seige sell over 200,000 copies in Japan . I think Call of Duty Black Ops III pushed nearly 400,000 sales in Japan. Like I say its a myth that Western games or FPS don't sell well in Japan these daysQuote:
Originally Posted by Sik
Very true, but I also think the language barrier was a Huge issue in the 80's and 90's. It must have been such a pain getting all the manuals and documents to support the various languages of European countries back in the day. It always amazed me how well SEGA did in Europe and more so in the UK in the 8 bit and 16 bit days. It had complete domination over Nintendo in the UKQuote:
European computers in particular were notorious for rarely having any success outside Europe (or often their origin country), period
Makes you think whether MS promoting the Xbox in Japan is what caused the increase in popularity in Western games. And of course most people just bought the games on PS3/4...
Unlikely!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryson
It has more to do with a shrinking console market in Japan and a growing portable market there. Even the Vita managed to sell as well as the Wii U and Xbox 360 in Japan, while it was the complete opposite in the West, where the Vita just floundered.
And yet somehow Vita games are still coming out and the Wii U is dead. In fact, at the moment, the Vita has more upcoming releases listed than the 3DS. Even just in North America specifically. I guess the system's small userbase is really dedicated and buys lots and lots of games.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
That's probably a credit to Cerny's work with the Vita and PS4 tools and design from the start. Getting smaller indie games onto Vita when you're targeting the PS4 could be keeping the ironically lifeless handheld going.Quote:
Originally Posted by j_factor
Sony is the reason Vita is so dead. They lost the retail space, cut back on publishing there, forced a reliance toward digital, and refused to allow for cheap storage. Everything else about it is great. It really is the best all around handheld console, and that's including Switch.
Don't forget that the PSP gave a huge stigma to the Vita before it even launched.
And yeah, Vita became quite the home for indie and niche games in general. Those developers are now wanting to jump to the Switch though, so that probably won't last much longer.
Why do you think that the PSP put some kind of stigma for the Vita?
The PSP was very successful in both regions.
I love my PSP.
I have over 80 games for my PSP and the larger battery that allows for 10 hours between charges.
Then the pandora battery hack happened and developers fled en masse, and Sony's attempt to counter this with the PSPGo only made matters worse (as nobody wanted to buy that thing). By the time the Vita was announced the damage had already been done.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
I have the larger battery too for my PSP 3000. The fatter battery cover on one side if offset by the D-Pad overlay I always use.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
The PSPGo has the worst D-Pad I've ever used. Completely impossible to play 2D games on it - with D-Pad overlay or not. Nothing helps that garbage D-Pad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sik
The PSPGo was Sony's attempt to push digital downloads from PSN. They even started giving away PSP titles with a PS+ account. There was no mass exodus of 3rd party software because of hacks. The PSP had a long run before the Vita came along, so the eventual trickle of software had more to do with the PSP nearing end of cycle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sik
The only thing the hacking did is give Sony an excuse for over-pricing the Vita's memory cards, which was a deal breaker for some looking to buy the Vita.
PSP Memory Cards weren't cheap either when compared to alternatives. And Sony made that model before hacking even happened on the platform.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
The always excellent Kim Justice did a video on this topic a couple of weeks ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAvUyrY6a2U&t=1s
The Japanese seem very tied into their whole Sony/Nintendo combo. Of course nobody else did decent handhelds which probably didn't help matters. Sega couldn't really make any major inroads with the Mark III, MD or Dreamcast. They're whole PC gaming market never had much of a renaissance either. I think much of the Western's indie game boom has passed them by a bit because Steam and self publishing doesn't have as much of an impact. I guess their cramped living conditions made desktops unappealing.
Nowhere near the ass raping Sony tried to pull off with $90 memory cards for the Vita.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
The Wonderswan Color was the perfect console at the perfect time and that attracted Sony/Nintendo loyal publishers like Square.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shapey Fiend
Nintendo just made what appeared to be the same thing with SNES-lite sound and flooded it with SNES ports, after years of fans asking for a portable SNES.
The Wonderswan Color was a nice little machine but the timing wasn't great. Coming out just 4 months before the GBA invited comparisons that weren't necessarily favorable. The system was a lot cheaper than the GBA was at launch, but that just shows you that they could have released it significantly earlier. The WSC obviously blows the GBC out of the water and it could have been positioned as such, and then it would have been in a much better place. They should never have bothered releasing a monochrome version of the system first IMO. The b&w Wonderswan was absurdly inexpensive. I can see the logic in looking out for price point but it was unnecessary to be that cheap. And releasing a monochrome handheld after the GBC had been out for a while wasn't a smart move. Plus being only released in Japan was very limiting, even specifically within the Japanese market, because companies want to be able to release their games overseas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Tiger
The PSP was massive and sold in huge numbers, I really don't get this because your device comes 2nd it doesn't count. What really hurt the PSP was its media and load times that was an issue on a handheld device. I have to say that the PSP is still the best handheld I own. I still have my Vita, but I've never been that taken to itQuote:
Originally Posted by Sik
I never got the love for the PSP. All the good games for it are accessible elsewhere, and the load times are bad enough that I'd rather just play those games on a real TV. If wanted a real on-the-go experience, GBA (SP101 for nice backlight) and NGPC are more than enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
If this is true I find it fucking hilarious. They seriously could have asked Sega for another copy of the server software. Hell I've seen a good chunk of the original code myself. You could literally change the event seasons in the lobbies at the press of a key on the private servers.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
The load times were terrible and really hurt the system. But I loved and still love the likes of Lumines, Ridge Racer, LocoRoco 1 and II, Syphon Filter, Hot Shots Golf, Gitaroo Man Lives, Tokobot ( an overlooked classic). And I really couldn't careless if the games were available on other systems later, it was at the time that counts (same goes for the Dreamcast)Quote:
Originally Posted by o.pwuaioc
Not later, earlier. Had the Gradius Collection, Burnout Legends, Medievil remake, Castlevania X, port after port. Lumines and Gitaroo Man were PS2 ports, and Syphon Filter went immediately to the PS2, too. It was a system that just offered little that was unique and I was happy to get rid of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
PSP can be played with zero input lag for those of us without CRT TVs, for one. Not just talking PSP games, also talking PS1 and other emulators for NES, Genesis, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by o.pwuaioc
If you emulation is your thing, there are a thousand ways to do it. Why buy a PSP when you can just use any number of consoles or computers you already own? This is also useless for those with CRTs, but I guess where back to classic v. modern gaming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief
He's talking about 2005, when a 3rd of Xbox owners were playing Halo 2. I doubt there very many people playing it on Xbox by that time, and according to him, there wasn't a big PSO audience on the Xbox to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonusKun
I really like the GBA SP, but it's nowhere near as nice as the PSP. And who cares if there was a console version of a game. A PS2 isn't exactly portable, plus you could get less expensive versions of games like Valkyrie Profile and Ogre Battle. The PSP versions also had added content.Quote:
Originally Posted by o.pwuaioc
Stigma? I'd say it was more like an awesome expectation that they totally failed to meet and borderline mislead everybody about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sik
The Vita launched and couldn't play your legit, PSN PSOne and PSP games for well over a year, and later it became only a small selection that trickled out slowly.
Nintendo got dumb with the whole "premium price" bullshit too. That's why people were slow to get the 3DS, and they dropped the price to more reasonable levels under the eclipsing shade of the saturated smartphone market.
It used a Sony backed memory card standard at a time when all flash memory cards were expensive and racing to the bottom in a format war. Sony reset the clock on that to control and screw over their own customers. That fight was already over and the Vita cards launched at double or triple the price of all other formats.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
They killed their own product.
On a tiny screen that cramped hands when played. No thank you. Still a totally useless system.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
I was totally sold on the idea of playing classic games on the PSP. Then I tried and realized how incredibly awful the d-pad is (on PSP-1000, at least).
That description is more fitting for the GBA.Quote:
Originally Posted by o.pwuaioc
I occasionally travel for work. The PSP does everything I could ask for portable gaming, outside of using my laptop.
Don't get where this hate is coming from against the PSP myself. ButLumines wasn't a port and Syphon filter didn't go straight to the PS2 at all. Yes it had ports of older games on it, but think like that then lets hate so many machines like the Dreamcast which had a ton of PS (not least loads from Capcom alone) and PC ports on it. And sorry being able to play Castlevania X in English was a pretty big deal to me, as was having some of the best Gradius game all in one collection, ports or not What next hating on the Saturn for its SNK ports?Quote:
Originally Posted by o.pwuaioc
It's serviceable on the 3000. I've never been a fan of the dpad in general, but I didn't have any problems playing fighting games on the PSP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryson