I like the 2600 but I kind of get what Trekkies means. I'm sure the games have great nostalgia for those who remember them, but there's just not much to hook new players i.e. post 1985.
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I like the 2600 but I kind of get what Trekkies means. I'm sure the games have great nostalgia for those who remember them, but there's just not much to hook new players i.e. post 1985.
You pretty much said the fans of this thing would be 2600 owners (sounds like an elbow to the ribs to me) and they'd be dead soon. Well, the NES isn't exactly a decade newer either.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
Atari had other systems like the 5200, 7800, XEGS and Jaguar. A person could easily get just as much enjoyment from the Jag library as they could get from the 32X. They could probably enable the system link features of some of those games through a network for online play even.
Nobody knows exactly what this thing is going to be, other than a box with the Atari Logo. It could be a system with new games coming out for it, or it could just be a box to play emulated classics.
Yup, you clearly know what motivates people buying homebrews. Are you shitting me? People make and buy homebrew games for Atari/INTV/Coleco because they're great games and are often stuff that people back then would have wanted. No one really cares about Halo 2600, but I can understand why that's the only one you know of.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
I didn't say they'd all be dead soon, I simply pointed out the blunt truth that the main demographic for Atari's flashbacks and this new console is getting older, which is true. When your only product's main selling point is nostalgia, and it appeals to a demographic that is starting to get into it's 40s, 50s, and even 60s, it's only a matter of time before your corner of the market literally starts to die off.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
I was pointing out that Atari is looking at the fact that their nostalgic corner of the market that can only keep shrinking going forward unless they do something to try and stay relevant. The Atari Box is that desperate attempt to stay relevant. Unfortunately they seem to be halfassing it as it's simply an Ouya + An Atari Flashback.
Sega and Nintendo don't have this problem as they're still relevant as they still make new games and hardware respectively.
Actually it almost is. the 2600 was released in 1977, the NES hit the US in limited quantities in 1985 with a full release in 1986. That's 8-9 years later. Throw in that many of it's classic games like Kirby and Megaman were still being made for the thing in the early 90s and you can see how it was still relevant for many younger generations. There's also the fact that many of it's games are more appealing to newer gamers as they're not just quick time wasters.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
Which as I said earlier where are the flashbacks for those systems? I'm guessing there's not really a market for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
From what they've revealed so far it's pretty clear it's going to be an emulation box with "modern" games which will probably be on par with what we saw on the Ouya. I highly doubt you're going to see something like Skyrim, Doom, etc. coming to this thing. Why else would the main controller for the thing be a modernized 2600 joystick?Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
So you admit the market is aimed at people who grew up with them? I have a few friends who do collect for the thing, and most of the homebrew I've seen them show off is more along the lines of "check this out! It's Sonic on the 2600!" which we play for about 5 minutes then move onto something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by zetastrike
And I like how you expanded it to include the Colecovision. Interestingly enough that is a system I actually wouldn't mind playing stuff for. That's my cut off with how far back I'll go. The games for it tend to be more fleshed out and polished. They're less time wasters and more in line with what I expect from early NES titles. It's also a bonus that many of the homebrews for that system tend to be ports from the MSX and SG-1000 which tend to be more of what I find interesting.
Hey trekkies, I buy homebrew games yet I never had or played a 2600 until 2015. Explain that to me.
And I like how you mention the Sonic homebrew. Homebrew like that aren't the good ones. Those are the curiosities. The good ones are adaptations of arcade games or original games, but you won't look at those because they have no value.
We wouldn't be arguing with you if you weren't being insulting and dismissive. I'm sure you don't like it when people dismiss Genesis audio or claim the Saturn only had shooters and bad 3d.
Atari games are not time wasters. You can sink a ton of time into a game learning the mechanics and increasing your score. If that doesn't appeal to you, fine. But don't act like you had to be born in the late 60s to be able to enjoy it
Except I'm not being dismissive. You guys have simply failed to show me a game that actually appeals to me. Most of what I've been shown from you guys in previous debates are still nothing but 5 minute time wasters, are games I can get better versions of on other systems, or are ports of Arcade games that either didn't interest me or are still inferior to ones I have access to on other systems.Quote:
Originally Posted by zetastrike
Show me one of these good games that would justify me purchasing a 2600 in 2017.
If the only purpose for playing the game is getting a higher score, then that by definition is a time waster. There's no real end to the game, there's no real change or progression. It's just doing the same thing over and over again, which isn't something that really appeals to me. I get many early arcade games were like this, but it's not really something I want to waste my time playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by zetastrike
Fine. You're not wrong to feel that way. But I don't think we are going to see a mass extinction of Atari fans or fans if that gameplay style anytime soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
I just think it's a tad bit hypocritical or superficial point to take. Space Harrier, Afterburner, etc operate by the exact same principle, but just have more graphics.
I didn't say there was going to be a sudden mass extinction of fans of that game style. I said the audience that Atari is pandering nostalgia too is getting older and will begin shrinking. Sadly this will include Atari fans. Will it completely die out in the next 10 years? Of course not, but it will start to shrink and it will only get smaller as time goes on. There's not enough younger enthusiasts like yourself going into the scene to keep it relevant and going. The sad fact is that younger generations aren't going to be looking to Atari for that kind of game style if they want it, they're going to look no further than their phones.Quote:
Originally Posted by zetastrike
If Atari wants to stay relevant, they need to do more than just pander to nostalgia.
Space Harrier and After Burner actually have different levels, bosses, etc. They each take more than ~5 minutes to see the entire content of the game. On top of that they actually have an end which you can say "I won!". Perfect example of this:Quote:
Originally Posted by zetastrike
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZD-khgQ4Nc
This is a game gamevet I believe brought up as a great game for the 2600. In under 2 minutes you've seen the entire game and it repeats itself. Space Harrier is maybe into the 2nd level in that amount of time.
I can see the market for NES games shrinking considerably in the coming years. How many kids have the patience to grind through all those punishingly difficult games? Beyond the super mainstream 1st party stuff, I can see interest fading sooner than later.
Possibly, but that's not Nintendo's main market. That's only a concern for collectors worrying about their collections losing value. Nintendo is still relevant as they still make new games and new hardware. They don't have to worry about "oh no, what if interest starts to die down on our NES backlog?" Sega is in a similarly solid situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by zetastrike
This is what you'd said:Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
A desperate attempt to stay relevant?Quote:
It's nothing but a desperate attempt to stay relevant due to realizing they can only sell Atari Flashbacks for a few more years before their audience that still remembers them and has nostalgia for them will literally start to die off.
New flash! Atari doesn't exist anymore. It is nothing more than a brand that is owned by the highest bidder. The same with INTV properties that was acquired, and then compilations for the PlayStation and a AT games version of the Intelivision was released as well.
The children of the gamers from that generation probably got to experience those games as well, and the carts and systems are still being sold at flea markets and used video game stores. There are people out there that buy these outdated games and systems to experience them. Not everyone buys them because they have a nostalgic view of them. ABF bought a 5200 to experience what it was like to own a console that came out before his time, and he enjoyed it.
The Ouya was nothing more than a console to play modern indy developed titles, and it was totally useless, because the PS3 and 360 had better indy developed titles and more of them.Quote:
I was pointing out that Atari is looking at the fact that their nostalgic corner of the market that can only keep shrinking going forward unless they do something to try and stay relevant. The Atari Box is that desperate attempt to stay relevant. Unfortunately they seem to be halfassing it as it's simply an Ouya + An Atari Flashback.
Sega and Nintendo don't have this problem as they're still relevant as they still make new games and hardware respectively.
Nintendo isn't licensing it's hardware out to 3rd parties.
The VCS was irrelevant in 1977 and sold less than the NES in its first year. The 2600 wasn't a solid seller until 1979 when Atari acquired the license for Space Invaders. The 2600 Jr. was released in 1986 for $50 and wasn't discontinued until January of 1992. That's a much longer time gap than the 10 years that the NES was being sold by Nintendo of America.Quote:
Actually it almost is. the 2600 was released in 1977, the NES hit the US in limited quantities in 1985 with a full release in 1986. That's 8-9 years later. Throw in that many of it's classic games like Kirby and Megaman were still being made for the thing in the early 90s and you can see how it was still relevant for many younger generations. There's also the fact that many of it's games are more appealing to newer gamers as they're not just quick time wasters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_2600
Atari 7800 games were included with the 1st flashback console.Quote:
Which as I said earlier where are the flashbacks for those systems? I'm guessing there's not really a market for them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_Flashback
That's assumption for now. The system includes a mouse and keyboard.Quote:
From what they've revealed so far it's pretty clear it's going to be an emulation box with "modern" games which will probably be on par with what we saw on the Ouya. I highly doubt you're going to see something like Skyrim, Doom, etc. coming to this thing. Why else would the main controller for the thing be a modernized 2600 joystick?
I know what I said, and I didn't say they'd all be dead soon which you can see in what you quoted of me.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
So? It's still pretty obvious that this is a desperate attempt by whomever is at the helm of Atari as a company or brand or whatever it is to keep it relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
And that's probably a small number in the grand scheme of things. Yeah I see Atari games and systems at retro game stores, but I don't see the stock really selling that often. Yeah a few might sell here and there, but it's not selling nearly as well as it was years ago. The Atari market pretty much tanked a few years back as is obvious from just doing a quick search on ebay.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
Yes, and this is looking to be nothing more than a console to play retro Atari games and modern indy titles on. It will be totally useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
No one said they were and I don't see how that's relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
And using that logic we could say the NES wasn't relevant until 1987 or so. We'd still be at about the same time gap.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
And let's be honest, the 2600 Jr. was an attempt to cash in on nostalgia and the success of the NES as the 7800 certainly wasn't selling all that well. How many units did the 2600 Jr. actually sell?Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
Yeah 5, and some of them were just nicer versions of earlier 2600 games. It's not like they're really putting much emphasis on that library.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
It's literally stated on the site that it's focused on retro titles and new indy games.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
You pretty much did say that, with the excuse that the NES was in limited markets in 1985. None of that matters, because just like the NES, most of North America didn't know or care about either system until a couple of years later.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
No!Quote:
And let's be honest, the 2600 Jr. was an attempt to cash in on nostalgia and the success of the NES as the 7800 certainly wasn't selling all that well. How many units did the 2600 Jr. actually sell?
My friend's younger brother didn't have any experience with the 2600 until he got a $50 2600 Jr. The NES was still flying under the radar in 1986.
It doesn't matter. The libraries of the 5200 and 7800 were well under 100 titles, and most of them were from 3rd parties that couldn't be brought over. Centipede on the 2600 was pretty gimped, so having the 7800 version was a much better option.Quote:
Yeah 5, and some of them were just nicer versions of earlier 2600 games. It's not like they're really putting much emphasis on that library.
Which could include more obscure titles from the entire backlog of Atari's home systems. The Ouya had none of that.Quote:
It's literally stated on the site that it's focused on retro titles and new indy games.
And for the record, I never said that Phoenix for the 2600 was a great game. It's a good port of the arcade game, which could also be completed quite quickly once you've mastered the enemy patterns. A game like Omega Race has a lot more levels and challenges, but you'll never see it on a flashback, or this console, because they would have to pay for the rights to the game. Using your logic, you've seen all that you can see with Pac-Man, because it only had one maze.
They stated it's pretty much a low-end PC running Linux that can run any program that Linux normally can. In fact from their description of the original idea, apparently it's really meant to be just a PC that's easy to plug into a TV, aimed to parents who want a cheap computer for their kids.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
For whatever idiotic reason they decided that stylizing it into an Atari 2600 shape is a great idea, though, and now they're getting all the mocking from it as a result. I wonder if they just licensed the Atari name to try to gain some quick attention but then executive meddling from the owner of the brand is resulting in all that stupid mess.
Even after all this crap and bullshit I’d rather own an Ataribox than an Xbox One or PlayStation 4. Those other systems are just PC’s too but without all the Atari drama. What’s the fun in that??!