Bad jailbars with HD retrovision cables from Genesis and or 32x?

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08-14-2017, 11:18 AM
CrossBow

Bad jailbars with HD retrovision cables from Genesis and or 32x?

So I recently picked up one of the HDretrovision cables for use with my Genesis model 1. I've known that through RGB the genesis has pretty bad jailbars from itself, but was hopeful that these would largely go away when using a 32x AV out. Sad to say that if anything, the jailbars appear to be even more pronounced through the 32x.

Is this where cutting the composite is needed?

If so is it just a matter of clipping the pin off the encoder? Since I have a dedicated composite RCA out, I can still run the signal straight to that instead of where I'm grabbing off the AV port correct?

Ideas or is anyone noticed this? I have seen that at least with 32x games, this doesn't appear to be as noticeable, but with something like Sonic the Hedgehog or anything with a solid color background that isn't white or black, that they can be seen.

Just bugs with me how clear the color and overall sharpness of the image is compared to my s-video out. But the jailbars compel me to just stick with my s-video if there isn't a real solution for this?
08-14-2017, 02:27 PM
GohanX

I don't have jailbars, but when I used mine with my launch Model 1 I go get small lines. They look like scanlines, but are vertical in solid colors. Since I have a late Trinitron CRT with thick horizontal scanlines it makes solid colors (particularly blue) look like a checkerboard. If this were an RGB cable the fix would be to use the composite sync line for sync instead of composite video, but I have no idea which kind of sync the HD Retro cables are using. The cables look fantastic on my model 2 Genny.

This doesn't help you at all and I don't have any recommendations, but you're not totally alone here.
08-14-2017, 04:31 PM
CrossBow

Quote:

Originally Posted by GohanX

I don't have jailbars, but when I used mine with my launch Model 1 I go get small lines. They look like scanlines, but are vertical in solid colors. Since I have a late Trinitron CRT with thick horizontal scanlines it makes solid colors (particularly blue) look like a checkerboard. If this were an RGB cable the fix would be to use the composite sync line for sync instead of composite video, but I have no idea which kind of sync the HD Retro cables are using. The cables look fantastic on my model 2 Genny.

This doesn't help you at all and I don't have any recommendations, but you're not totally alone here.

No problem thanks for the reply. I can confirm that on my two Model II units, they do NOT produce the jail bars I'm seeing. And your description is pretty accurate. I haven't totally compared it, but I imagine these lines I'm witnessing would coincide with where the rainbow banding would be taking place if I was using composite on a CRT. I have read where others with actual RGB setups going into XRGB etc... see these and had read where they were disabling all composite in the genesis to make them go away. I figure if I clip the composite out pin off the encoder at the base then pull it up, I could attache the composite separate to the RCA from everything else to see if it helps. I had also hoped that using the 32x would rid them since I would then be viewing everything through the 32x encoder. But the fact that they are still there tells me they are in the RGB signal itself from the Genesis.

I also have a va6 model 1 that I don't believe I have tested them with, but far as I know it uses the same sony encoder that my va2 uses.
08-15-2017, 01:21 AM
CrossBow

Was watching classic gameroom and boom! Right here is a perfect example of what I get through the HD Retrovision cables. Notice the blue and the stripes vertically? That is what I'm talking about. Virtually invisible in s-video, but then the colors are more washed out and it isn't as sharp.. ugh. I hate comprimise...

https://youtu.be/c4Dz6fNKuh8?t=355
08-15-2017, 04:23 AM
roadkill

You're lucky they're even working at least, on my HDTV when using Genesis component cables the colors are completely off and the TV will loose sync during different parts of games. My HDTV does support 240p for SNES HD Retrovision component cables and PS2 component cables for PS1 games just fine though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrossBow

Was watching classic gameroom and boom! Right here is a perfect example of what I get through the HD Retrovision cables. Notice the blue and the stripes vertically? That is what I'm talking about. Virtually invisible in s-video, but then the colors are more washed out and it isn't as sharp.. ugh. I hate comprimise...

https://youtu.be/c4Dz6fNKuh8?t=355

That looks exactly like S-Video output from my Genesis Model 1 that was modified for S-Video, is that an S-Video capture from the Genesis in that video? I've given up using RGB on my Genesis until I get the OSSC, which would probably be the better way to go than HD Retrovision cables, they seem to be a lot more iffy with the Genesis compared to the SNES.
08-15-2017, 10:08 AM
CrossBow

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadkill

You're lucky they're even working at least, on my HDTV when using Genesis component cables the colors are completely off and the TV will loose sync during different parts of games. My HDTV does support 240p for SNES HD Retrovision component cables and PS2 component cables for PS1 games just fine though.

That looks exactly like S-Video output from my Genesis Model 1 that was modified for S-Video, is that an S-Video capture from the Genesis in that video? I've given up using RGB on my Genesis until I get the OSSC, which would probably be the better way to go than HD Retrovision cables, they seem to be a lot more iffy with the Genesis compared to the SNES.

I was getting that effect with s-video until I modded my 32x for s-video as well. Once I did that most of the vertical bars went away. But it seems with the HD retrovision cables, they are worse. Funny that you can get SNES working. My TV won't accept the SNES nor the Master System at 240p but seems to like the Genesis just fine and I've been told, should like the Saturn as well if I ever get the adapter for that. But honestly my Saturn on S-video looks incredible enough as it is so I've just kept the HD cables on the Genesis for now.

Another odd thing, the SMS doesn't work with the HD retrovision cables for me as my TV doesn't seem to like the 240p signal from it, but yet the SMS games from my MegaED through the Genesis do work? Although, when I first fire them up I get a blank screen and no signal for about 5 - 10 seconds and then the picture is there.
08-16-2017, 06:22 AM
roadkill

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrossBow

I was getting that effect with s-video until I modded my 32x for s-video as well. Once I did that most of the vertical bars went away. But it seems with the HD retrovision cables, they are worse. Funny that you can get SNES working. My TV won't accept the SNES nor the Master System at 240p but seems to like the Genesis just fine and I've been told, should like the Saturn as well if I ever get the adapter for that. But honestly my Saturn on S-video looks incredible enough as it is so I've just kept the HD cables on the Genesis for now.

Another odd thing, the SMS doesn't work with the HD retrovision cables for me as my TV doesn't seem to like the 240p signal from it, but yet the SMS games from my MegaED through the Genesis do work? Although, when I first fire them up I get a blank screen and no signal for about 5 - 10 seconds and then the picture is there.

Hmm strange, I guess there's a big variety from HDTV to HDTV when it comes to 240p component video support for retro consoles. I have a Samsung, they usually support the SNES but not Genesis.

And yeah the 32X'll do that with S-Video, clean up the jailbars, I've modded one also. However I thought that the 32X improved the video quality on any output though, so it's strange that you're still getting jailbars from 32X RGB to component with HD Retrovision cables. Maybe it's the TV? Have you ever tried using SCART and one of those typical SCART to component converter boxes? If there's still jailbars, then it's possibly the TV. If not, then I suppose it's the HD Retrovision cables' internal circuitry.
08-16-2017, 10:21 AM
CrossBow

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadkill

Hmm strange, I guess there's a big variety from HDTV to HDTV when it comes to 240p component video support for retro consoles. I have a Samsung, they usually support the SNES but not Genesis.

And yeah the 32X'll do that with S-Video, clean up the jailbars, I've modded one also. However I thought that the 32X improved the video quality on any output though, so it's strange that you're still getting jailbars from 32X RGB to component with HD Retrovision cables. Maybe it's the TV? Have you ever tried using SCART and one of those typical SCART to component converter boxes? If there's still jailbars, then it's possibly the TV. If not, then I suppose it's the HD Retrovision cables' internal circuitry.

Actually yes, I do have an RGB Scart cable and scart to component converter. However, that also produced some jail bar atifacting, severe color washout, and lots of noise in the signal. I've been told that my converter likely has adjument pots inside it to correct for some of this but I haven't broken it open to see. But I do remember the bars being present there as well. My guess in reading up on this, is that the bars on RGB are common on the early model 1 units. My model 2 units do NOT produce these bars with the HD retrovision cable so it is definitely from the model 1. I suspect the composite is to blame, but I'm afraid that if I clip it, it might break the RGB as it wouldn't surprise me if the HD retrovision cables are using the composite sync...