Business Insider is full of shit

As for trashing the classic series: What is with these guys. Do they dislike 2D platformers in general? It's almost the only way I can imagine them speaking so badly of the classic titles. And if they like 2D platforming at all, like the 2D Mario games, it seems they'd love the 2D Sonic games.

Are these kids who grew up with only 3D games?

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

The platforming and level design in Sonic is superior to Crash Bandicoot, which plays more like an 8-bit platformer than anything with the levels being pretty linear and mainly made up of traps and enemies and the fun bit is stringing together combos of well-timed jumps and hits. Crash Bandicoot 2 has much less of this though and ditches the side-scrolling levels for the most part.

Replay value it far eclipses Sonic, as theres plenty of backtracking to get secrets in some levels to unlock them in other levels to get 100% completion.

Also the save system in Crash 1 is absolutely asinine and I have no idea why it exists. The PS4 version of Crash 1 is far superior.

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Nice thoughts on the game. But I don't see replay value in the same way. ie. All the times I've replayed DKC I've never again went for 101%, all about playing the levels and avoiding the filler. Though it was great going for 101% the first time around, lots of good memories and school yard talk.

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Originally Posted by Ecco

What do you think are the "new issues" in S3&K? The infamous barrel, of course. What else do you find as problems?

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Who here was also stuck with that infamous barrel in Sonic 3 back in the day? I know I was. Completely prevented me from beating the game during first rental. Was even checking every inch of my GamePro issue that had a SwatPro guide on it, but was only for some big ring locations. Wasn't until second rental that I finally figured it out somehow. Ah, the good ol' days before internet.

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Originally Posted by Thief

Who here was also stuck with that infamous barrel in Sonic 3 back in the day? I know I was. Completely prevented me from beating the game during first rental. Was even checking every inch of my GamePro issue that had a SwatPro guide on it, but was only for some big ring locations. Wasn't until second rental that I finally figured it out somehow. Ah, the good ol' days before internet.

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I don't think I ever did back in the day when I was playing this game originally, but it totally got me when I replayed the game as an adult.




This is the second time recently I've heard people take the stance of "Let's be honest, Sonic the Hedgehog was simply not as good as you remember. Plain and simple." They'll argue that the game's emphasis on speed is at odds with the sprawling, exploration-focused level design.

While I see the point they're trying to make, I still don't agree with it... but then, I never really capitalized on the speed mechanic. I explored every pixel of those stages and tried to make it to every hidden capsule.

Did anyone else totally pass up on every speed boot capsule? I always saw that as the "suicide power-up."

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Originally Posted by MrMatthews

Did anyone else totally pass up on every speed boot capsule? I always saw that as the "suicide power-up."

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Fun you bring it up because:

http://i.imgur.com/jCX3LMd.png

I always assumed you needed Tails to get up there, but the other day I broke the shoes monitor at the top left of the level and when I jumped off I happened to land on the spring and ended up there.

PS: what's the island in the background?

I found all of Mario, Crash, Rayman, and Sonic boring, but I never liked platformers of any kind :P

Now Crash Team Racing and Mario Kart, those were fun against friends.

I always thought that Crash was nothing more but a 3D DKC clone.

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

Replay value

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Ah yes, that magic term. But a game is not over just because you saw the ending credits roll.
Otherwise why are arcade games from the 80s still played in this day and age?

Speaking of terrible, misinformed reviews fueled with this distorted, abstract concept of "replay value" ( which is most of the time simply padding ) and you get this gem from the Giga Wing review at IGN:

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Unfortunately, despite these features, the game is far too short lived an experience. I was able to get through all five levels in just over twenty minutes on my first time through, and was absolutely surprised to see the credits roll (perhaps in part due to my lack of understanding for what was going on with the story). The problem, alas, is with the included infinite continues, but if Capcom had removed this feature, we'd have another Zombie Revenge-like experience, where those moments of token-sucking cheapness end up turning into frustration. Furthermore, after having passed the game with all four characters, I found little to hold my interest.

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I've probably played 60 hours of this game, maybe more, before I could challenge the true final boss and finally 1-credit the game. Even so, there's a huge margin for me to improve my score ( which was pathetic, I admit )and my game, both on the normal game and score attack mode and I certainly will do it again, because Giga Wing is a such a great designed game.

Sonic, which is a more 'simple' game, has that quality as well. You can play it to increase your score, you can try to speed run it or perhaps try to no-miss the game etc. or you can simply play it for fun. You come back for more not because of some collectathon crap, so you can unlock a Space Channel 5 costume for Sonic or whatever, but because it's a wonderful and tightly designed game. The same can be said of pretty much the all the greatest arcade-style games from that era.

About the 'Sonic wasn't all that great' crap, it's really simple. It was released in 1991 and you had nothing remotely like it, not even on Arcades. Also, a game with Sonic design cannot be the hardest game, otherwise it would kill the game, turning it into perhaps another Mario crap-clone, full of pitfalls and cheap hits.

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Originally Posted by MrMatthews

This is the second time recently I've heard people take the stance of "Let's be honest, Sonic the Hedgehog was simply not as good as you remember. Plain and simple." They'll argue that the game's emphasis on speed is at odds with the sprawling, exploration-focused level design.

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Having played them recently, I think the Genesis games stand up very well.

And speeds aren't at odds with it's exploration design, Sonic 1 was designed with replay value in mind. So why am I not surprised that once again those that don't replay videogames have the shittiest opinions of videogames.

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Originally Posted by roce

I found all of Mario, Crash, Rayman, and Sonic boring, but I never liked platformers of any kind :P

Now Crash Team Racing and Mario Kart, those were fun against friends.

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If you're not into the genre, it doesn't count.

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Originally Posted by Bottino

Ah yes, that magic term. But a game is not over just because you saw the ending credits roll.
Otherwise why are arcade games from the 80s still played in this day and age?

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Exactly.

Having read the rest of the Bottino, he really nailed it.

The speed isn't at odds with the level design in the old Sonic games, quite the opposite. You've all seen these games played at a high level. The only 16-bit Sonic you could level that accusation at is Sonic CD.

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Originally Posted by Bottino

Ah yes, that magic term. But a game is not over just because you saw the ending credits roll.
Otherwise why are arcade games from the 80s still played in this day and age?

Speaking of terrible, misinformed reviews fueled with this distorted, abstract concept of "replay value" ( which is most of the time simply padding ) and you get this gem from the Giga Wing review at IGN:



I've probably played 60 hours of this game, maybe more, before I could challenge the true final boss and finally 1-credit the game. Even so, there's a huge margin for me to improve my score ( which was pathetic, I admit )and my game, both on the normal game and score attack mode and I certainly will do it again, because Giga Wing is a such a great designed game.

Sonic, which is a more 'simple' game, has that quality as well. You can play it to increase your score, you can try to speed run it or perhaps try to no-miss the game etc. or you can simply play it for fun. You come back for more not because of some collectathon crap, so you can unlock a Space Channel 5 costume for Sonic or whatever, but because it's a wonderful and tightly designed game. The same can be said of pretty much the all the greatest arcade-style games from that era.

About the 'Sonic wasn't all that great' crap, it's really simple. It was released in 1991 and you had nothing remotely like it, not even on Arcades. Also, a game with Sonic design cannot be the hardest game, otherwise it would kill the game, turning it into perhaps another Mario crap-clone, full of pitfalls and cheap hits.

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To play devil's advocate, when you have access to multiple games, you're not as likely to sit down with one, until you master it.

That's been the issue with games since... well, either 5th or 6th generation. Once they're long, but you're going to beat it anyway, because the challenge isn't nearly on par with 4th generation or prior, the minute you're done with a game, it's just like "next!" You're probably not exactly looking back either...

Just one of the many(MANY) reasons I burned out on modern gaming at the 7th generation. (Hell, even now, I'm starting to not care for the handhelds. The one plus is that they're not using discs)

Only more people these days are now accustomed to play all games like "next!" I seriously don't understand collecting is even so popular with this mentality, trade them all in toward the next purchase instead of turning them into glorified dust collectors.

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Originally Posted by OverDrone

The only 16-bit Sonic you could level that accusation at is Sonic CD.

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And many people wrongly have. Achieving all the unlockables through the The Time Attack mode demonstrates that almost all of the levels can be run for speed. Time Attack is the training ground for deftly learning the levels.

@Thief: My guess is, they want to hoard a bunch of games so that way they can resell them on eBay at 4-10x purchase price in about 10-15 years. *cough*Trouble Shooter Vintage*cough*