The Nintendo 64 Classic Edition.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

He'd say that it was because you were playing with the slower cars in the earlier levels, and that I'd never played the later levels where the cars were faster. The sensation of speed was never there with those games.

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Well, i disagree. I don't feel this way. Later cars in TGR feel very fast.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Gran Turismo felt a lot faster once you got into the Super cars. You always start out with cheap 4 cylinder cars in the beginning, with a top end speed of @ 120 mph.

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Sounds like Top Gear Rally to me. Although i personally never had the patience to go as far in Grand Turismo (not a fan of simulations, i prefer arcade).

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Top Gear Rally was way slower than the arcade racer Sega Rally 95.

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But not slower than the Saturn version.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

That was a problem with earlier PlayStation games. Wipeout 3 and Ridge Racer Type 4 didn't have that issue. Speaking of Wipeout, Wipeout N64 had a lot of pop up, while Wipeout 3 was much smoother, ran at a faster pace and had very little pop up.

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Well, at least the N64 port of Wipeout runs at 30 fps (unlike some other port this forum wouldn't mention). It had pop-up just like all versions on all consoles. Wipeout 3 was a very late PS1 exclusive release. Around the same time the N64 could produce games like WDC and Stunt Racer.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

The one racer on the N64 that I'd felt gave the best sensation of speed was Ridge Racer, followed closely by Episode 1 Racer. Still, I've always felt that a majority of the racing games on the PlayStation and Saturn always delivered that sensation of speed better than the racers on the N64.

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I respect your opinion so i won't argue but i don't agree.

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Originally Posted by bultje112

I think shutoku battle 97 on saturn is a good example how saturn could handle racing games in the right hands. and look, no fog! and barely any pop up.

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I still see a lot of pup-up, more than the games i mentioned in my other post. Also, i don't know why you are so defensive, i never started this, it was you guys who claim the N64 is the console that suffers from fog and low draw distances. All i did was to show you that this problem was universal and games suffered the same on all consoles, while they all also had their fair share of games that didn't suffer from this as much.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

Well, i disagree. I don't feel this way. Later cars in TGR feel very fast.



Sounds like Top Gear Rally to me. Although i personally never had the patience to go as far in Grand Turismo (not a fan of simulations, i prefer arcade).



But not slower than the Saturn version.



Well, at least the N64 port of Wipeout runs at 30 fps (unlike some other port this forum wouldn't mention). It had pop-up just like all versions on all consoles. Wipeout 3 was a very late PS1 exclusive release. Around the same time the N64 could produce games like WDC and Stunt Racer.



I respect your opinion so i won't argue but i don't agree.

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the rushed version of wipeout 2097 on saturn already runs a ton better than the original wipeout and comes very close to the psx version ans n64 version, if not better in fact (virtually no pop up in saturn version). that tells you how much was left on the saturn hardware by most developers and how much better it got developing on the saturn in 97/98.

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Originally Posted by bultje112

the rushed version of wipeout 2097 on saturn already runs a ton better than the original wipeout and comes very close to the psx version ans n64 version, if not better in fact (virtually no pop up in saturn version). that tells you how much was left on the saturn hardware by most developers and how much better it got developing on the saturn in 97/98.

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In what way it runs "a ton better"? It still runs like a 20fps port. But it seems like this is not a problem on the Saturn. It's only a problem on the N64. "But-but Waverace runs at 20 fps" right? Again, the double standards i was talking about.


I played the first level (don't remember the others so correct me if i'm wrong) and there is pop-up but it hides it all well behind curves and big ad signs. It does a similar thing TGR "accused" of doing here when i said it doesn't have as much pop-up. Again, fine when Saturn does it, bad on the N64. Double standards.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

In what way it runs "a ton better"? It still runs like a 20fps port. But it seems like this is not a problem on the Saturn. It's only a problem on the N64 and Waverace right? Again, the double standards i was talking about.

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wipeout 2097 for saturn runs a ton better than the first wipeout for the saturn and it doesn't run at 20fps. the original did perhaps, but not 2097.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

In what way it runs "a ton better"? It still runs like a 20fps port. But it seems like this is not a problem on the Saturn. It's only a problem on the N64. "But-but Waverace runs at 20 fps" right?

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Wipeout 2097 doesn't run at 20 fps on the Saturn at all, its much better, the music is much better too and not in Mono and a better draw distance than the N64 version . Wave Race doesn't only run at a sup 30 fps for most of the game, it also runs in a bordered display even on NTSC system. N64 chipset was such a letdown, it came up short to Saturn and PS games in a lot of cases. Contrast that to comparing the DC to the N64 (a system which also came 2 years later) and the DC outclasses the N64 in every aera, that was the diff.

Ok, i don't have this particular game so i can't try it on my system. But on every emulator i tested it (even on Mednafen Saturn which is the most accurate one), it runs exactly like the first Wipeout port. Every mention of the game i found online says 20 fps. Even in an older topic in this very forum they tell you it runs at 20 fps.

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...ardware/page22

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Wipeout 2097 doesn't run at 20 fps on the Saturn at all, its much better, the music is much better too and not in Mono and a better draw distance than the N64 version . Wave Race doesn't only run at a sup 30 fps for most of the game, it also runs in a bordered display even on NTSC system. N64 chipset was such a letdown, it came up short to Saturn and PS games in a lot of cases. Contrast that to comparing the DC to the N64 (a system which also came 2 years later) and the DC outclasses the N64 in every aera, that was the diff.

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Waverace is a launch game, Wipeout 2047 is a late Saturn release, blah, blah. Same arguments you guys use when it helps make the Saturn look better.

I don't disagree about the N64 being disappointing 2 years later though.

you are using a (saturn) emulator to base your assumptions on? LOL.

I will try this game tonight on my saturn but it runs so much smoother than the first one and could be argued graphically better than psx and n64.

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Originally Posted by bultje112

you are using a (saturn) emulator to base your assumptions on? LOL.

I will try this game tonight on my saturn but it runs so much smoother than the first one and could be argued graphically better than psx and n64.

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Yes, why? Mednafen is accurate, have you ever tested it?. SSF also runs it the same. I also mentioned that i found information online that supports this but you chose to ignore it. Do you have any better proof except for own memory?


Edit: Battle of the Ports channel agrees:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zl72UBn41Y

This author agrees:

http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/WipeoutXLComp.htm

This poster mentions the good draw distance but also the low frame rate:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...ostcount=14380

you have to be either blind or high (just like whatever idiot is playing the saturn version in that video) to watch that video and think it runs 20 fps. there is nothing wrong with my memory as I played this game just a few weeks back and it runs very well. very close to psx and n64 version, with slightly better graphics and less pop up.

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Originally Posted by bultje112

you have to be either blind or high (just like whatever idiot is playing the saturn version in that video) to watch that video and think it runs 20 fps. there is nothing wrong with my memory as I played this game just a few weeks back and it runs very well. very close to psx and n64 version, with slightly better graphics and less pop up.

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Are you kidding me right now? There is a huge difference between the left and right window in terms of frame rate. It's clear as day and you call me blind? If the Saturn version runs at 30 fps then how fast does it run on the PS1? We know it's 30fps on the PS1 so use logic.

I at least provided videos and links that support this. All you provided is your word and considering your last post, it doesn't mean much.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

Waverace is a launch game, Wipeout 2047 is a late Saturn release, blah, blah. Same arguments you guys use when it helps make the Saturn look better.

I don't disagree about the N64 being disappointing 2 years later though.

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Wave Race wasn't a launch game, it came out 3 months after the system 1st launched. The N64 hardware came out 2 years after Saturn or PS and yet it had a hard time matching the systems now and again.
Contrast that the DC which came 2 years after the N64 and from Day 1 every major DC game made the N64 look like nothing, thats the differnce.

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Originally Posted by Soulis

Are you kidding me right now? There is a huge difference between the left and right window in terms of frame rate.

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Saturn Wipeout 2097 is a smoother game and runs at a better frame rate of Panzer Dragoon (1st game) and that had a frame rate of 24 fps. 20 fps is more like what the OG Daytona USA run on the Saturn and that was far more jerky.

More proof. Look at the Wipeout segment. It shows the PS1 version and then cuts to the Saturn. The difference is there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGwNHPuPzMY

PS1 is smoother than the Saturn version in every source i can find. if Saturn is running the game at 30fps (it clearly isn't, i can tell how smoothly a game runs, i'm one of those people) then the PS1 version must be even smoother. But we all know it's not, it's 30 fps on PS1.

And please, tell me you are not confusing frame rate with game speed. 2047 is fast but not as smooth.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Wave Race wasn't a launch game, it came out 3 months after the system 1st launched. The N64 hardware came out 2 years after Saturn or PS and yet it had a hard time matching the systems now and again.
Contrast that the DC which came 2 years after the N64 and from Day 1 every major DC game made the N64 look like nothing, thats the differnce.

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Yeah, sorry, i was remembering Europe, it was in the first batch of games when it was released in my country. It was still released much earlier than the Saturn Wipeout 2047 though. Devs didn't know the system as much as they did with Wipeout on Saturn. Isn't that the point when you use that argument yourself? Writing off better looking N64 games as later releases is one of the most common arguments people here use in comparisons.

The N64 was a disappointment but i don't think it was supposed to have a huge difference anyway. it was much cheaper at launch than both PS1/SAT (at launch) and i think it was the same price or lower during it's lifespan. The console it self at least, not the games.

The problem with the Saturn version of Wipeout 2097 is that it was developed for PAL and wasn't optimized for NTSC. It might still be sub 30fps or not as smooth as the Playstation version in PAL, but only PAL users can say for sure.

Most of the Playstation comparison videos I've seen use emulation, so you can't use them to judge what rrally happens on real hardware.

PAL can't be 30 fps. It was either 25 or 50, unless there was a 60hz option. 20 fps NTSC games translated to 17 fps in PAL. Although i'm not sure how smooth the PAL version really is.

You seem to be right though. In most videos i can see that the frame rate isn't really consistent. I can feel "jumps" which usually means more frames are repeated at some points. Or there are frame pacing problems. Whatever it is, it's not as smooth as the PS1 version.

Also, guys, PS1 and Saturn emulation has come a long way. I'm not talking about ePSXe here (which is also good nowadays), im talking about stuff like Mednafen, which is based on accuracy.