My MOST DISAPPOINTING Game Console episode

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Originally Posted by MrMatthews

I’ll chime in here,

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I've gotta chime in here, just to say nice use of "ironically".
Seriously, nice to see it used correctly.

The 5200 is one of my most coveted systems. I can't be bothered to watch MJR, in what way was the system disappointing? How can you be disappointed in something that is so well known and documented? What was he expecting?
Was the port of Kangaroo not up to his expectations? Were the SFX in Centipede just a little off from the arcade?

edit: ok just skimmed the video. Predictably the controllers were his beef, and "downgraded arcade ports". How can he be disappointed? It is what it is. And I love it for it.
I'd just as well play any of the 5200 ports on 5200 than play the originals in the arcade. I'd enjoy playing the originals, but I can't help but enjoy the nuances and time capsule offered by the 5200 library and its control interface options.

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Originally Posted by Prince Talmit

I've gotta chime in here, just to say nice use of "ironically".
Seriously, nice to see it used correctly.

The 5200 is one of my most coveted systems. I can't be bothered to watch MJR, in what way was the system disappointing? How can you be disappointed in something that is so well known and documented? What was he expecting?
Was the port of Kangaroo not up to his expectations? Were the SFX in Centipede just a little off from the arcade?

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He's telling you why it's disappointing.

You could have one of the greatest designed videogames, but if the controller interface is broken, it totally ruins the experience. PAC-MAN on the 5200 looked pretty good back then, but the controller totally ruined what would otherwise be a really port of the game. I so wanted a 5200 back in the day, but after hearing how bad the controller was from actual owners of the console, my interest quickly faded. You'd be better off finding an old Atari 800 (the 5200 games were pretty much ported from) that has a more reliable controller and a much deeper library.

Pretty much everything on the 5200 is available for the Atari 800 / XEGS, and there's a CF cart for it for the price of about 7 random games on eBay. You can play with a Genesis controller, but the first step of getting a non-broken Atari 8 bit computer system is a doozy.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

He's telling you why it's disappointing.

You could have one of the greatest designed videogames, but if the controller interface is broken, it totally ruins the experience. PAC-MAN on the 5200 looked pretty good back then, but the controller totally ruined what would otherwise be a really port of the game. I so wanted a 5200 back in the day, but after hearing how bad the controller was from actual owners of the console, my interest quickly faded. You'd be better off finding an old Atari 800 (the 5200 games were pretty much ported from) that has a more reliable controller and a much deeper library.

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Disappointment entails a failure to meet expectations.
What kind of expectations could he possibly have regarding the controllers. It is well known that they need regular maintenance.
What kind of sense does it make to purchase something that is known to malfunction and require constant maintenance, and then say you are disappointed because it is faulty and needs maintenance?
It's understandable that you were disappointed with your 5200 PacMan experience back in 1982. That's entirely different than someone in 2017 complaining about an issue that has been rehashed for 25 years. (edit: er, 35 years!)

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Originally Posted by Raijin Z

Pretty much everything on the 5200 is available for the Atari 800 / XEGS, and there's a CF cart for it for the price of about 7 random games on eBay. You can play with a Genesis controller, but the first step of getting a non-broken Atari 8 bit computer system is a doozy.

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Why would you want to play with a Genesis controller? You might as well just emulate the originals and play with an arcade stick if you're going to suggest the games are better played on an entirely different platform.

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Originally Posted by Prince Talmit

Disappointment entails a failure to meet expectations.
What kind of expectations could he possibly have regarding the controllers. It is well known that they need regular maintenance.
What kind of sense does it make to purchase something that is known to malfunction and require constant maintenance, and then say you are disappointed because it is faulty and needs maintenance?

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Well that really depends on what your expectations were to begin with. Maybe all of those controllers worked when he got them, but he wasn't expecting them all to fail under light use. I've always thought that the controller just broke rather easily; I didn't know that they just rotted away without any kind of use.

The Atari 800 isn't an entirely different platform. The 5200 has the Atari 8-bit computer hardware inside of it, paired with a really shitty controller.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Well that really depends on what your expectations were to begin with. Maybe all of those controllers worked when he got them, but he wasn't expecting them all to fail under light use. I've always thought that the controller just broke rather easily; I didn't know that they just rotted away without any kind of use.

The Atari 800 isn't an entirely different platform. The 5200 has the Atari 8-bit computer hardware inside of it, paired with a really shitty controller.

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Exactly. What kind of expectations could someone have for the 5200 in 2017. The video is just dumb. Zero appreciation of what the system has to offer.

So? The 5200 and the A800 are the same platform, just like the SG-1000 and the Colecovision are the same platform?
Whatever.

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Originally Posted by Prince Talmit

Exactly. What kind of expectations could someone have for the 5200 in 2017. The video is just dumb. Zero appreciation of what the system has to offer.

So? The 5200 and the A800 are the same platform, just like the SG-1000 and the Colecovision are the same platform?
Whatever.

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He's had the 5200 for quite some time. It's not like he bought it in 2017.

Here's his review from 5 years ago.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

He's had the 5200 for quite some time. It's not like he bought it in 2017.

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That doesn't make the video or his "disappointment" any less vapid.
Sorry, I just don't "get it" I guess.

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Originally Posted by Prince Talmit

That doesn't make the video or his "disappointment" any less vapid.
Sorry, I just don't "get it" I guess.

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How do you not get it?

The controllers were poorly designed, even when they worked.
The RF to power brick wasn't necessary.
Keeping a working controller for the console was pretty much impossible.

I've never heard of any console in the history of videogames that you couldn't play, because the controllers fell apart shortly after getting it, and the analog controller design made no sense in a videogame world based on digital input.

The 5200 would have failed without the console crash, because the reputation of its controller was already pretty bad shortly after its release.

I don't get what he is disappointed about.
Again, the points you're trying to substantiate were relevant for disappointment in 1982 or 1983 - not in 20XX. Who on Earth is going to buy a vintage 5200 and be disappointed about the RF power brick (just on the early models, btw)?

He makes a point of being dismissive of the games as downgraded arcade ports. It's not like he seems at all serious about having an interest in the console. What's there to be disappointed about? What expectations were not met? Did he really think he'd be exempt from having bad controllers, or did he not do his homework?

What's next, a video about the Vectrex and how the display really isn't color, and the thing hums all the time, and the arcade ports are downgraded?
This is just stupid. Literally.

I don't get his continued "disappointment" in 2017 with the controllers either.

He has already (and for quite some time now) made provision and bought an alternative controller for the system. That other controller is his primary means of playing games on the 5200, even though for some button functions it needs to be tethered to an original 5200 controller. But the point being that where he personally is concerned, the issues he had with original controllers are a thing of the past. They no longer exist simply because he no longer has need to make use of them in that way. So I totally don't get why in the present day he's still harping on the 5200 controller issues.

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Originally Posted by Prince Talmit

I don't get what he is disappointed about.
Again, the points you're trying to substantiate were relevant for disappointment in 1982 or 1983 - not in 20XX. Who on Earth is going to buy a vintage 5200 and be disappointed about the RF power brick (just on the early models, btw)?

He makes a point of being dismissive of the games as downgraded arcade ports. It's not like he seems at all serious about having an interest in the console. What's there to be disappointed about? What expectations were not met? Did he really think he'd be exempt from having bad controllers, or did he not do his homework?

What's next, a video about the Vectrex and how the display really isn't color, and the thing hums all the time, and the arcade ports are downgraded?
This is just stupid. Literally.

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You're being silly. This video was an answer to a question raised on another website. Do you have a better example of a console that is more disappointing than the 5200?

John Hancock noted the same thing that has been said by several others on this thread:

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Definitely worst controller design! There are multi-carts made for the 5200 so you can enjoy many ports and home brews. Also important to note that the 4 port had a terrible RF/power combo that sparked when you plugged it in. Get a 2 port console and controller adapter if you want to enjoy the console. Otherwise, play on the 8-bit Atari Computer line and say goodbye to the console.

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Originally Posted by Thierry Henry

I don't get his continued "disappointment" in 2017 with the controllers either.

He has already (and for quite some time now) made provision and bought an alternative controller for the system. That other controller is his primary means of playing games on the 5200, even though for some button functions it needs to be tethered to an original 5200 controller. But the point being that where he personally is concerned, the issues he had with original controllers are a thing of the past. They no longer exist simply because he no longer has need to make use of them in that way. So I totally don't get why in the present day he's still harping on the 5200 controller issues.

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It's not a complete solution though. The face buttons on the 5200 controller still need to be pressed, and he has noted that those buttons are crap as well.

I'll just leave this here.

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Originally Posted by Prince Talmit

Exactly. What kind of expectations could someone have for the 5200 in 2017.

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Did MJ Rocks just get the system in 2017?. I thought it was about the most disappointing console he owned or still owns and like I said on that score it can be utterly subjective. For me, the Wii, Wii U and Switch give Nintendo a complete hatrick of lame duck consoles and the worst systems I own.

His words:

"What's the most disappointing console in my entire game room?"

Not was, but is. As in continues to be disappointing even to the present day.

Again, there are major controller issues he points out (especially the non -centering stick) which are really no longer a factor for him personally since he uses an alternative method.

I'm repeating myself here but I'll ask it again: How does that poor functionality still continue to bother him on a personal level if it's no longer a factor for him in-game?

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Originally Posted by Thierry Henry

How does that poor functionality still continue to bother him on a personal level if it's no longer a factor for him in-game?

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The controller is pivotal to any console, its how you interact with your console when you 1st get it, so its a fair point. I still think the DC controller is crap and even though they are various workarounds I never liked the fact that to play FPS or 2D fighters I more or less had to buy more hardware, because SEGA were so dull not to put Twin sticks on the Pad and reduce the face buttons from the Saturn 3D controller.

I can see where the arguments are coming from but seriously, the 5200 controller like it or not was a stock piece for a system that you all hopefully realize back then, a thing like custom sticks weren't an option back in the 80s.

The games looked decent but the controller being hot garbage really killed it for me.

An alternative controller for the 5200 still isn't a perfect solution. Some games tried to compensate for the shitty controllers and they're just wonky even with a Wico stick or whatever. Most infamously the 5200 port of Frogger requires you to press one of the action buttons to hop, because the joystick (on the standard controller) doesn't center itself properly.

Honestly that "hold the controller the long way and press buttons on the side" design is a dinosaur and I really don't like using any of them aside from the Intellivision funnily enough. The big advantages the Intellivision pad has is the proto-dpad being easy to press and steer and having two fire buttons on each side (but only 3 unique functions between them) means you can use your middle and ring finger to control many of the multi button games, avoiding the squeeze-cramping you get with the Colecovision and 5200/7800.

Holy smokes, a four-page debate over the semantics of answering a question.

If someone were to ask me what the most disappointing console in my game room is, my brain would probably immediately dismiss whatever “disappointment” implied, and I would lock in on whichever console I liked the least. Is that what MJ did? I dunno, but try to remember that by and large, his audience is not nearly as intelligent, thoughtful, and goddam nitpicky as the people on this site. I about guarantee that the guy who asked that question was more than satisfied with MJ’s answer, and would barely be able to fathom this discussion.

“What’s the most disappointing console in your collection?”

“The 5200 - it’s too goddam big, which means it’s more difficult to hook up and play [I don’t think he even addressed the power supply issue, which is a totally legitimate complaint as someone who has more than one device hooked up to their TV]. The controllers are unwieldy and uncomfortable to use, and so notoriously unreliable that I can’t even play the system without some third party device. Worst of all, the games themselves are not good enough to put up with any of these issues.”

For fuck’s sake, what’s wrong with that answer? Are you saying that you think his opinion is wrong? Perhaps you’ve seen inside his soul, and you know there’s a different console in his collection that he’s more disappointed with? Maybe some of you guys should volunteer to write for the show, since you’ve clearly got a better handle on Metal Jesus’s thoughts and opinions than that hack Metal Jesus.

FML.

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Originally Posted by MrMatthews

Holy smokes, a four-page debate over the semantics of answering a question.

If someone were to ask me what the most disappointing console in my game room is, my brain would probably immediately dismiss whatever “disappointment” implied, and I would lock in on whichever console I liked the least. Is that what MJ did? I dunno, but try to remember that by and large, his audience is not nearly as intelligent, thoughtful, and goddam nitpicky as the people on this site. I about guarantee that the guy who asked that question was more than satisfied with MJ’s answer, and would barely be able to fathom this discussion.

“What’s the most disappointing console in your collection?”

“The 5200 - it’s too goddam big, which means it’s more difficult to hook up and play [I don’t think he even addressed the power supply issue, which is a totally legitimate complaint as someone who has more than one device hooked up to their TV]. The controllers are unwieldy and uncomfortable to use, and so notoriously unreliable that I can’t even play the system without some third party device. Worst of all, the games themselves are not good enough to put up with any of these issues.”

For fuck’s sake, what’s wrong with that answer? Are you saying that you think his opinion is wrong? Perhaps you’ve seen inside his soul, and you know there’s a different console in his collection that he’s more disappointed with? Maybe some of you guys should volunteer to write for the show, since you’ve clearly got a better handle on Metal Jesus’s thoughts and opinions than that hack Metal Jesus.

FML.

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This. I post those video for our opinions about which console disappointing each other.

MJR has also cited towards the end of the video that he has not emotional attachment (nostalgia) for the console: He owned a Atari 2600 and jumped over to the C64. He got the console after the fact. At the end of the day, it's his own opinion.

Until MrMatthews FML comment, I was wondering myself why people were losing their sh*t over MJR's remark about the 5200 controllers.

He did what I did. I skipped from the Atari VCS to the C64. My interest in the 5200 was very short lived, because the 8-bit computers did everything better.

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Originally Posted by MrMatthews

Perhaps you’ve seen inside his soul,

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I have. It's full of hidden gems.

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Originally Posted by Thierry Henry

I have. It's full of hidden gems.

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You may have caught some of that rant, but we can still exchange a bitchin’ high five.

http://i466.photobucket.com/albums/r...1D18692039.jpg

I think I got hung up on the "most" part of the question, and not disappointing. There are a few, but which is most disappointing? Hard to weigh that. To be disappointing, you need high expectations going into it. There I go again, dissecting the question.

I guess I don't have one, technically. But I like to crap on Jaguar, because it's a such a tremendous waste of time and money.

I have a Jaguar. Yeah, it's loaded with a lot of crap, but it still has a few games worth playing. It's way over-priced for what it has to offer though, and I'd recommend a Lynx over spending money on the Jag.

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Originally Posted by MrMatthews

You may have caught some of that rant, but we can still exchange a bitchin’ high five.

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https://i.pinimg.com/474x/fd/3f/2e/f...y-birthday.jpg

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Originally Posted by MrMatthews

“The 5200 - it’s too goddam big, which means it’s more difficult to hook up and play [I don’t think he even addressed the power supply issue, which is a totally legitimate complaint as someone who has more than one device hooked up to their TV]. The controllers are unwieldy and uncomfortable to use, and so notoriously unreliable that I can’t even play the system without some third party device. Worst of all, the games themselves are not good enough to put up with any of these issues.”

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That's a fine answer for which console do you like the least. Entirely different than disappointment.
There's no need for a debate or argument here. Everything you stated regarding the 5200 has been well known for 35 years.
"For fucks sake" the answer doesn't address the question. You've chosen to rewrite the question to fit the content.
I'm still not aware of why MJR was disappointed, he makes no case of what his expectations were or why he was hoping for better.
It's clear he's run out of content and is just filling screen time with whatever.
The video and the approach to the topic is plainly dumb.

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For fuck’s sake, what’s wrong with that answer? Are you saying that you think his opinion is wrong? Perhaps you’ve seen inside his soul, and you know there’s a different console in his collection that he’s more disappointed with? Maybe some of you guys should volunteer to write for the show, since you’ve clearly got a better handle on Metal Jesus’s thoughts and opinions than that hack Metal Jesus.

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Do you have a hard-on for Metal Jesus?

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Originally Posted by SEGA.GENESIS1989

Until MrMatthews FML comment, I was wondering myself why people were losing their sh*t over MJR's remark about the 5200 controllers.

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Where has anyone "lost their shit" (besides MrMatthews)? There is near-universal agreement about the 5200 controllers.

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Originally Posted by WarmSignal

To be disappointing, you need high expectations going into it.

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right. This shouldn't be difficult to comprehend but apparently it is.

MrMatthews lost his cool and used the F word. Feels completely out of character.

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Originally Posted by Thief

MrMatthews lost his cool and used the F word. Feels completely out of character.

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The dude literally lost his shit over someone pointing out the vacuousness of a MJR video.

You're obviously being vacuous in your view of his video. Not everyone reads or pays attention to the history of every console on the market. His video is informative for someone that might have a slight interest in what the 5200 is about, and why that person may be disappointed with the console should they look into collecting for it.

MJR's videos aren't meant to be a technical breakdown of consoles. His videos are presented like a conversation that a couple of gamers might have while shooting the breeze about it. Some people just got their controller cords all in a wad over something that is really silly to be upset about.

I'm disappointed in the 5200, because it had so much potential ruined by a controller that totally made people avoid purchasing it.

80s : lets build a gigantic piece of plastic housing for this small pcb.

10s : lets build a tiny housing for these two pcbs and internal psu that also gets quite hot.

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Originally Posted by Prince Talmit

The dude literally lost his shit over someone pointing out the vacuousness of a MJR video.

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Is that really what you think? I don't like Metal Jesus Rocks. Generally, his videos are vacuous.

No, I literally lost my shit because people in this thread* were being dense and argumentative for the sake of being dense and argumentative. Jesus, man... I think he explained why he was disappointed with the console quite well. He's disappointed with the 5200 because he can't play it on account of the garbage controllers, and third-party controllers are expensive and hard to come by.

What's so hard to understand about that? ...besides the fact that you don't agree with his opinion.


*Edit: I said "people," but I just read through this thread again, and it was really only Prince Talmit who was being obnoxious.

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Originally Posted by MrMatthews

...besides the fact that you don't agree with his opinion.[/B]
*Edit: I said "people," but I just read through this thread again, and it was really only Prince Talmit who was being obnoxious.

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Stating that the console is large and the controllers are faulty is not an opinion. I made no argument against his opinion.
Can you show me otherwise?

Quite clearly I asked what was he expecting? Unless I missed it, he never articulated what his expectation were, so there is no basis in the video for disappointment. Why is that so hard for you and gamevet to understand?

Who was being argumentative here? You and gamevet it appears.

Just look at your unhinged hyperbole:

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Holy smokes, a four-page debate over the semantics of answering a question.

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It was about a half a page. Get a grip.

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Originally Posted by Prince Talmit

Stating that the console is large and the controllers are faulty is not an opinion. I made no argument against his opinion.
Can you show me otherwise?

Quite clearly I asked what was he expecting? Unless I missed it, he never articulated what his expectation were, so there is no basis in the video for disappointment. Why is that so hard for you and gamevet to understand?

Who was being argumentative here? You and gamevet it appears.

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Why is it so hard for you to understand why the console is such a disappointment? It had everything going for it, but the controller was so crappy that it undermined everything that the console had to offer back in 1982. People were bitching about the poor controller design shortly after its release, and it became a reason why you shouldn't purchase the console. Did you ever consider the MJR had thought that if he took good care of the controllers, that they wouldn't have failed like what has been reported? There has never been a console that had a controller fail, without it being used. MJR has 9 controllers that are pretty much useless, because the connections within them have failed. The controller design is the worst that has ever been, for console gaming. There's no excuse for that. I'm an Atari fan, and even I avoid the console, because of how bad its controllers are.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Why is it so hard for you to understand why the console is such a disappointment? It had everything going for it, but the controller was so crappy that it undermined everything that the console had to offer back in 1982. People were bitching about the poor controller design shortly after its release, and it became a reason why you shouldn't purchase the console. Did you ever consider the MJR had thought that if he took good care of the controllers, that they wouldn't have failed like what has been reported? There has never been a console that had a controller fail, without it being used. MJR has 9 controllers that are pretty much useless, because the connections within them fail. The controller design is the worst that has ever been, for console gaming. There's no excuse for that. I'm an Atari fan, and even I avoid the console, because of how bad it's controllers are.

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I'm also not interested in fantasy considerations of what MJR thought when he bought the controllers. That was up to him to tell us, not for us to imagine.

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Originally Posted by Prince Talmit

I'm also not interested in fantasy considerations of what MJR thought when he bought the controllers. That was up to him to tell us, not for us to imagine.

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Then why did you have an issue with MJR saying that he was disappointed with the console?

The controllers are a freaking joke. I'd like to know what fantasy world you live in, where the Atari 5200 isn't a disappointment. What kind of lame excuse do you have for such a shoddy controller?

There are countless reviews about why the console should be avoided, because of the severely jacked up controllers.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Then why did you have an issue with MJR saying that he was disappointed with the console?

The controllers are a freaking joke. I'd like to know what fantasy world you live in, where the Atari 5200 isn't a disappointment.

There are countless reviews about why the console should be avoided, because of the severely jacked up controllers.

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???
I've already agreed with you and stated that the controllers are faulty.

How many more circles do you want to run this in?
Your last sentence there exactly supports my initial point. Which was how can someone be disappointed in something that is so well known to be problematic? (yes, I know you and MrMattthews were compelled to try to answer this with a fantasy extrapolation of what MJ might have thought, but that's really not relevant)

Are you going to put a dog turd on your kitchen counter and then tell us it is disappointing because it smells and is slimy? Of course that's just stupid.
On the other hand, if you tell us about how you thought the turd had a diamond ring inside, but alas it was just smelly and slimy, then there is some basis for disappointment.
Do you understand the issue now? This was never difficult.

Did you ever consider that his disappointment with the console had nothing to do with the games, but was all about the controller?

I could tell you countless times about why something wasn't worth your time, but until you experienced it yourself, you'd probably not believe what I'm telling you. It's quite possible that he did the same thing, until he experienced it first hand.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

I could tell you countless times about why something wasn't worth your time, but until you experienced it yourself, you'd probably not believe what I'm telling you. It's quite possible that he did the same thing, until he experienced it first hand.

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Ok, that's good. Whatever works for you.

edit: on second thought, i'll keep playing for a bit... because this is just too out of left field:

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Did you ever consider that his disappointment with the console had nothing to do with the games, but was all about the controller?

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Uh? The controllers.. isn't that what you've been going on about now for each of your replies?