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Its a truly beautiful RPG and is like the Saturns answer to Suikoden II. Its just looks and sounds stunning and plays great too. Such a shame the babbons at SOA never brought it over and upset the only other corp that would have looked to have translated it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Tiger
Nice one Bernie!
They couldn't keep the overtly racist stereotypes and it would have been too much work to change that kind of stuff.
iron storm and dragon force feature so little text and storyline they were hard to fuck up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Take it you've never played Dragon Force and that is just a cop-out answer, for I don't know... because there's little on google to look upon the games. Just reading the translation notes or even playing the game will show you how much text is in the game. Just for the battles alone with over 170 characters, each have 20 contexts sensitive text alone In fact just for the character Wein there's 60,000 lines of text.Quote:
Originally Posted by bultje112
Dragon Force is a 2 disc monster full of text.
the game isn't story heavy. there is a lot of meaningless text or similar text by all the generals. I have dragon force and love it, but come on, you have to be an idiot to fuck that translation up since there is virtually no character development. it's all gameplay. the second game is a lot more story heavy though and recently an amazing translation has been released.
I think you haven't played Dragon Force much: there is a heavy story, along with reams of text; It's a far more story-driven than Popful Mail that's for sure, which was nothing more than a Platform game with some RPG elements or even Shining Wisdom. So let's not try that cop-out answer of there isn't much text or story to mess up.Quote:
Originally Posted by bultje112
The sequel is just more of the same btw and only comes on one disc too. It's a shame that you, someone who's usually so well burst, informed and knowledgeable of Saturn and its games, reduces oneself to silly comments like there's not much text or a story to Dragons Force, just to join the hate bandwagon for WD.
Playing the game for just an hours shows off incredible amounts of text and a BIG story.
i get why people didn't like the WD translations, i didn't mind in the day & don't now...gameplaly changers were far, far worse in my book
Dragon Force is great, but let's not act like there's a lot of new ground being broken by the story: that's not what you were there for. i had a blast but was much more intrigued by politics/etc from stuff like Shining Force III (especially the later scenarios) and Suikoden.
I'm not acting like Dragon Force breaks any new ground. There is a big story the game and loads of text, for WD to mess up. Its a far bigger game than the likes of Shining Wisdom and got more a story to it, than Popfulmail and tons of more text than both games too. Yet on here, I see both Shining Wisdom and Popful Mail brought up and nothing on the likes of Iron Storm or Dragon Force. But then there's not much information on what WD changed with those games and so no internet outcry. The story is quite deep in Dragon Force and. I think even most reviews at the time, praised the scale of not just the battles, but in incredible detail and story to the gameQuote:
Originally Posted by IrishNinja
oh god yes!!Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishNinja
I tried suikoden and got about 20 hours in but it just felt really boring. you recommend me to continue? it's a real drag so far.
I bought a Playstation to play Suikoden when it came out, because I desperately wanted to play 32-bit RPGs and the game was hyped so much in magazines. The Playstation library hadn't interested me before that. I made the mistake of buying it new instead of just renting it. I was shocked by how boring and shallow and bland the game is. Even with the novelty of it being a next gen JRPG. If it had been released on a 16-bit console, it would have only been that much more disappointing. Beyond the Beyond looked cool and Shining like, but the battles were such a turn off that I never bothered playing far into it. I wound up selling my first Playstation after Wild Arms got old and nothing else interested me. I didn't get another one until FFVII came out.
I got a hold of a cdr copy of the Saturn version of Suikoden during the 90's and it was another disappointingly low effort port.
apparently suikoden 2 is a ton better. I only like the general recruiting and amassing a great army and castle, because it reminds me of strategy rpg's like shining force (3) but everything else is boring me. you literally do the same thing every time. go to a town, encounter a problem, go in a dungeon, beat everything a final war battle against a general. solved the problem and to to the next zone and do the exact same thing. and as far as I played the storyline was very bland and I didn't care for anything. the mere opposite to good games like shining force 3 or shining the holy ark, that I also played recently.
No he's right, Dragon Force's story isn't that heavy compared to earlier RPGs of the time which were way more text heavy. It's got a good story and great gameplay but it's not a ton of translation work compared to other RPGs at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
You are just saying that. It has a much bigger and deeper story than Popful Mail and also Shining Wisdom and tons more text too than those games or even Vay, Yet no issues, Albert Oddesy is a text-heavy RPG too so what balls up did Working Designs do with that and Iron Storm and Dragon Force and anyone who's played Dragon Force would know its a massive translation job, the team even joked they put more text in that what the Sakura Wars Team were doing with their game. Dragon Force had more text than most JRPGs and was massive for a tactical RPG. 8 different storylines for the main characters, with each one having some 60,000 lines of text for that character. For battles, there are 20 contexts sensitive, messages per character and there are over 170 characters or a total of over 3,4000 battle only messages, add in pre-battle taunts, story text. Have you people even played Dragon Force? Its a monster of a text game, 2 CDs and where little of the CD is used on Voice acting, FMV and where all the music comes off the soundchip.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonusKun
WD not only did a great job with the translation, they improved it over the Japanese version too.
Yeah well, It's the truth. If we want to compare it to say Dragon Quest VII then you'd get the idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Dragon Force has a decent amount of text but compared to this..
https://twitter.com/juhopenttila/sta...19024518930432
Yeah sorry no. Dragon Force would maybe fill up about 2/10ths of that shelf.
Well if you feel the need to bring up a traditional JRPG to a tactical RPG, I mean fair enough, but That be like comparing Grandia to Dragon Force .. I’m not for that myself and look to compare it more to Final fantasy Tatics or Shining Force III. Dragon Force had a ton of text in it, it’s quite overwhelming at 1st. WD did a great Job on the translation unless you can point to big changes they made to the text ?Quote:
Originally Posted by BonusKun
Well like it was said buddy, Dragon Force's text isn't huge compared to some of the games which were ported over here to the states. I'm not saying in any way shape or form that Dragon Force is a bad game, In fact to me it's a must own title for the Saturn. I just don't think Working Designs had that much work compared to the localizing team that handle Dragon Quest VII. That was a game with a huge amount of text I would have been scared to work on bringing it to the U.S. .Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
BTW Grandia (the first one) inspired a game by the Korean company Sonnori called Arcturus: The Curse and Loss of Divinity. The overworlds and battles are modeled after Grandia.
Please, I never said that at all. I said the text file was rather big for a Tatical RPG of the time (1996) and the text file size is bigger than that of the likes of Popful Mail, the 1st Lunar, Shining Wisdom, Vay games which people on here have brought up about WD mess ups, there's more text in Dragon Force than in Shining Force III too. So there was plenty of text and text to the story for WD to have messed up, that was the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonusKun
So what parts of Dragon Force text and the story did WD mess up compared to the Japanese original?.
Well I know you didn't but I did which is what we were talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Anyone got an idea how much Dragon Force goes for just the disc only? I don't intend on getting rid of it, but it was inside the Saturn I bought at a yard sale a few years ago.
i mean, i adore it, but it's not a pretty game (none of the series really is), and it's a slow burn. do you recall what had gone down by the time you quit? cause there's some real emotional stuff at some points that i found compelling, and also dug the pokemon-like thing of building your castle by collecting all the other characters (the plot has a major change if you can get all 108). it's a fairly short game too.Quote:
Originally Posted by bultje112
2 is indeed tremendously better, and hits the ground running plot-wise, with what is to this date one of the nastiest villains ive seen in an RPG. ill say this though, there's more impact if you finished 1, as some characters return & that was a highlight for me.
yes my father died and gave me his blessing to go on my own now. how far do you reckon I am?Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishNinja
Isn't that a way to get around we don't know. What parts of Dragon Force did WD mess up compared to the Japanese game?. How much text did they alter and insert their own take and jokes?Quote:
Originally Posted by BonusKun
Maybe my memory is off but at 20 hours you've got to be nearing the end of it. I think I beat it in like 15. But the first game is pretty short, especially compared to the second, which is a much improved game.Quote:
Originally Posted by bultje112
Yeah, Suikoden is pretty short (I have a theory that game likely started life/development as a Super Famicom game and was transitioned to Playstation...in the same way Fable started life as a Dreamcast game and became an Xbox game).
I think my save game with all 108 stars isn't much past 25 hours.
how far do I have to go after my father is killed?
At that point there's only like two "generals" left? I'd say that point is well past half-way. Maybe 2/3rds?
Suikoden and Suikoden 2, are just pretty much perfect RPGs. Honestly, I spent so much time with these games as a teenager and finished them both so many times. The story, the characters, the music, the battles... Both games are sheer poetry to me. Alongside FFVII, Alundra and Breath of Fire III, the Suikoden games represent the cream of PS1 RPGs, no contest.
Recently bought myself a mint condition copy of Shining Force III for my Saturn (wasn't cheap!), and am loving every minute of it so far! Great story, great music, great battles... It's exactly how I imagined a Shining Force game would be like on the Saturn. I'm only sorry that it's taken me so long to get it, but better late than never! :D
You're in for a good time, Mega.
wait till you play the other 2 scenarios. they are even better!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Drive Bowlsey
You never forget your first...
I own the OST CD for Suikoden 2. Easily one of the best RPG soundtracks ever. I want Konami to revive this series more than Castlevania by a long shot.But outsource it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Drive Bowlsey
Can't rep. It's not physically possible for me to agree with you more on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by SegataS
Ok so I'm slowly building up my (PAL) Saturn collection and my priority is RPG's for the system, but they're all quite pricey. I have my sights set on The Story of Thor 2 (Legend of Oasis I think it was called in other parts of the world) and Dragon Force. I've seen Dragon Force listed on ebay for around £150! Does that price sound about right or could I find it cheaper elsewhere?