Why are buyers willing to pay $150-$200 for a mint condition unmodded SNES but not...

...but not for a Super Nintendo I added component output to. Is it because of HD Retrovision cables? Is it because they are collectors and they want their consoles untouched? Is it because the buyers think a modified console means it will decrease in value over time rather than increase/stay the same? They can't just stay left untouched forever, eventually they'll need maintenance such as having their power caps replaced.

I added component RCA jacks to two Super Nintendos that were at first broken but I easily fixed them by replacing the back panels and I also replaced the old 7805 voltage regulators with a modern switching voltage regulators that no longer need the heatsink/RF shield in the back. How does this not appeal to buyers? You also get the added bonus of having component output, the added bonus of being able to play your Super Nintendo through two decent outputs; component through the RCA jacks (I also added a TRS jack for audio) and SCART or S-Video w/ audio through the multi-out. This can be useful for recording gameplay, like using the component output on your TV and the multi-out on a DVD recorder (or something or other to record on).

I just don't get it...

I guess I'll have a backup component modded SNES then for myself.

I've heard that component on the SNES isn't a big improvement over S-Video for the console, because of how clean the output already is on it.

Using component on the Genesis is a different story. It's a massive improvement over composite.

i'd pay 150 for those mods all day. i dunno bout 200 but to me it's worth it to buy a premodded system, provided the work's done right. maybe people are a lil gunshy about modded stuff? maybe people only want a stock snes, who knows. i would believe that the right buyer for that is out there.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

I've heard that component on the SNES isn't a big improvement over S-Video for the console, because of how clean the output already is on it.

Using component on the Genesis is a different story. It's a massive improvement over composite.

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I mean no offense but you're wrong, it's actually the other way around. I mean it could depend on the TV you have though. For me however, component on the Genesis looks the same as the S-Video mods on it do. On the contrary, component output directly from the SNES' S-ENC chip, which shockingly does have YPbPr on it (amazing considering how old it is), looks amazingly better than S-Video for the SNES, at least on the older SNES motherboard revisions such as the SNS-CPU-GPM-01 and SNS-CPU-GPM-02. However, I would agree with you on the 1CHIP SNES revision and on the SNES jr./mini, S-Video looks just as good as RGB to component on those Super Nintendos.

On the older SNES revisions, S-Video has too much saturation in the color, where as component output has a perfect balance, and a clear image. My circuit though does pull Luma from pin 7 of the multi-out which is for S-Video, but combined with pins 1 and 24 of the S-ENC chip, it looks fantastic.

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Originally Posted by cabear

i'd pay 150 for those mods all day. i dunno bout 200 but to me it's worth it to buy a premodded system, provided the work's done right. maybe people are a lil gunshy about modded stuff? maybe people only want a stock snes, who knows. i would believe that the right buyer for that is out there.

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Thanks for the interest! However, the SNES with YPbPr that I'm willing to sell is incomplete. I have another one that is complete though, it has a TRS output jack for audio (so that I don't have to use the mult-out for audio), but that SNES is reserved for me. The incomplete one does not have a TRS jack for audio, I plan to add one though but first and foremost the motherboard actually needs to be recapped. I bought the power caps from console5.com and will recap it one of these days, and then add the TRS jack. The reason it needs to be recapped is because of wavy lines showing up in the picture quality. This isn't because of the mod, I've seen the same wavy lines when I tested out HD Retrovision component cables on it and I've also seen them through composite on my CRT TV. So I guess I should say that it was good that I took it down from ebay, but there are two other people selling component modded Super Nintendos on ebay that have been up for at least a month or so now, where as untouched SNES consoles sell like hot cakes.

Here are videos of both Super Nintendos I modified recently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRKWIFgGLX0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iNCf_Qsg7M

If anyone was possibly wondering, this wasn't a ruse to get people to watch my videos (which were poorly narrated by me), I was genuinely confused as to why component modded SNES consoles aren't selling well on ebay anymore. My guess was because of HD Retrovision cables, which do indeed sell well on ebay even for high prices, especially when they're sold out on the official website. I guess another possible reason could be that people just don't have the TVs to support 240p on component.

Also I used hot glue instead of super glue for several reasons. First off, I've tried using Gorilla super glue before, and they just won't keep the jacks and other things in place. I know this from experience when trying to use it on S-Video jacks for my modded Sega Genesis consoles with S-Video ouput. Another reason, the hot glue not only does a damn good job of keeping things in place, it's also possible to remove it with a good amount of rubbing alcohol (a little bit of rubbing alcohol won't loosen them though, it takes a lot). I hope I'm not labeled as a 2nd Drakon :D, I most certainly do not use as much as he normally does. I also don't use it for bad soldering or to keep people from "reverse engineering" my projects.

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Originally Posted by roadkill

You're wrong, it's actually the other way around. I mean it could depend on the TV you have though. For me however, component on the Genesis looks the same as the S-Video mods on it do. On the contrary, component output directly from the SNES' S-ENC chip, which shockingly does have YPbPr on it (amazing considering how old it is), looks amazingly better than S-Video for the SNES, at least on the older SNES motherboard revisions such as the SNS-CPU-GPM-01 and SNS-CPU-GPM-02. However, I would agree with you on the 1CHIP SNES revision and on the SNES jr./mini, S-Video looks just as good as RGB to component on those Super Nintendos.

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I have mine connected to a Sony KV-32HS420 CRT. It's an HD CRT that will expose bad image quality.

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On the older SNES revisions, S-Video has too much saturation in the color, where as component output has a perfect balance, and a clear image. My circuit though does pull Luma from pin 7 of the multi-out which is for S-Video, but combined with pins 1 and 24 of the S-ENC chip, it looks fantastic.

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I'm not experiencing color saturation.

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...7&d=1515040377

Some would disagree with that.

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/thr...post1065083182

People are paying $150-200 for clean, unmodded SNESes? Why? Last time I checked they were < $80ish, even in rip off game stores. I can only think that some people are super nitpicky and want ones that are pristine with 0 yellowing? Maybe those are tough to find and people are willing to pay more? Or maybe they're proven 1 chip models?

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Originally Posted by Tower of Power

People are paying $150-200 for clean, unmodded SNESes? Why? Last time I checked they were < $80ish, even in rip off game stores. I can only think that some people are super nitpicky and want ones that are pristine with 0 yellowing? Maybe those are tough to find and people are willing to pay more? Or maybe they're proven 1 chip models?

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See for yourself:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Ninte...53.m1438.l2649

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Originally Posted by gamevet

I have mine connected to a Sony KV-32HS420 CRT. It's an HD CRT that will expose bad image quality.

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Ah, that explains it then. I also have a CRT HDTV that makes even composite video look fantastic. I can't stand the input lag on it though, I always thought no matter if it's SD, ED, or HD, CRT TVs wouldn't have input lag at all.

I would say that component video output is not required for your CRT HDTV then :)

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Originally Posted by Tower of Power

People are paying $150-200 for clean, unmodded SNESes? Why? Last time I checked they were < $80ish, even in rip off game stores. I can only think that some people are super nitpicky and want ones that are pristine with 0 yellowing? Maybe those are tough to find and people are willing to pay more? Or maybe they're proven 1 chip models?

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Time to start selling whitened consoles.

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Originally Posted by roadkill

Ah, that explains it then. I also have a CRT HDTV that makes even composite video look fantastic. I can't stand the input lag on it though, I always thought no matter if it's SD, ED, or HD, CRT TVs wouldn't have input lag at all.

I would say that component video output is not required for your CRT HDTV then :)

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Composite video on the Genesis isn't all that great, while it's decent using the SNES. The Genesis using composite video has a lot of ghosting and the CRT is forced to fill in that gap with line doubled images, while the same does not happen with the SNES. Input lag is not a problem with either system using composite, but the image quality of the Genesis using composite is not that good. It really does benefit from using component on the Genesis, while spending the extra cash on component for the SNES isn't worth the cost.

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Originally Posted by Sik

Time to start selling whitened consoles.

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If you look at my SNES consoles in my videos, they're also not really yellow either (the '2nd completed' one is a tad yellowed, but still not bad). It looks like that SNES in the pic of that ebay listing is bleach white, although I'm assuming they were obviously Retrobrited.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Composite video on the Genesis isn't all that great, while it's decent using the SNES. The Genesis using composite video has a lot of ghosting and the CRT is forced to fill in that gap with line doubled images, while the same does not happen with the SNES. Input lag is not a problem with either system using composite, but the image quality of the Genesis using composite is not that good. It really does benefit from using component, over spending the extra cash for a better signal for the SNES.

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I agree, I've tried HD Retrovision cables for both the Genesis and the SNES on my CRT HDTV, and it certainly improves the picture. But I'll also agree that CRT HDTVs make S-Video look better than on an SDTV or on a flat panel HDTV. Believe or not, composite from my Genesis 2 VA4 really doesn't look bad at all on my Samsung CRT HDTV. It actually doesn't look too bad either on my Sanyo CRT SDTV, but of course I know that once I finally S-Video mod my Genesis 2 VA4 that I still use composite with, I'll definitely notice an improvement. I think the CXA1645 has the best looking Genesis composite video (only behind the 32X). However, when used on my flat panel HDTVs, it still does look like crap.

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Originally Posted by roadkill

See for yourself:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Ninte...53.m1438.l2649

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Sky high buy it nows from from overly greedy/ambitious sellers are nothing new, nor are they a good data point, if you look at consoles that have recently sold, it's still easily < $100 with controllers and chords, < $50 for just the system:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Ninte...kAAOSwGPxaTF0g

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Su...0AAOSwXshaTEZP

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Ninte...IAAOSw6GJaPcRo

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Ninte...QAAOSwVF1aSFTx

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Ninte...8AAOSwBkRZ9PXZ

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Ninte...gAAOSwovNaNbGI

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Ninte...EAAOSwqbxaTCij

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Ninte...kAAOSwv-ZaH3~r

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Ninte...8AAOSwvR5aN0AJ

https://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-Super-...UAAOSwh1haMYrr

Not sure who in their right mind would spend $200 on a plain jane SNES. That seller is either spoofing that they sold the ones they said they did, they have some very loyal customers, or they got lucky and found someone foolish enough to pay that much.

The $150 area is more typical for a CIB console:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Ninte...p2047675.l2557

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Originally Posted by roadkill

See for yourself:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Ninte...53.m1438.l2649

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Look at the three which have sold:
8***1 ( 10Feedback score is 10 to 49) US $170.18 1 Dec-27-17 13:38:23 PST
_***j ( 179Feedback score is 100 to 499) US $170.18 1 Dec-23-17 14:35:08 PST
a***e ( 258Feedback score is 100 to 499) US $69.47 1 Nov-10-17 03:39:32 PST

So, the first one sold for $70, about normal. The others were rather high at $170, but this was around Christmas time so I'll mark it up to that. Most people have more money (or credit) than sense around that time.

Thing is, it has been the same listing the whole time, they just increased the price as they had less stock to sell. So it makes it looks like they sold the previous ones at $200, very deceptive listing.

I will admit, I'd prefer a stock console and the HD Retrovision cables over a modified console. Especially if the console is in really nice shape. Plus, if you've already got a SNES buying a new one with mods is kind of dumb if you can just buy the cables to upgrade your quality. So this limits your market even more, down to mainly people that either 1) are just getting into retrogaming and want a SNES with good output, or 2) have a beater/yellow SNES and want to replace it with a nicer looking one and want the output options as a bonus. Low demand means people aren't going to want to pay a lot for it either.

1.) A segment of collectors exist who want unmolested consoles as something modded can lead to problems.
2.) Ebay has plenty of SNES consoles (complete minus box) well under $100 American dollars. Of course there are quite the optimistic sellers out there who want more.

Nearly all of my classic consoles that I actually play games on...are modded in some fashion. Usually s-video added or region switch..etc. To me I do that out of convenience to get everything hooked up and at the ready to be played while still looking pretty good on my LED display I use.

Having said that, my wife isn't fond of my console modding and everytime I talk about modding one further or buying a console just to mod, she will frown a bit. So she is a purist for sure. I even offered to install a Hi-Def NES into her actual NES so it could be hooked up to the TV in the bedroom for her to play and she was like...NOPE!

But...I will also state that for most of the consoles that I have modded, I also have another spare that isn't modded at all. So I for me I like having original consoles for the collection, but for my daily drivers they get modded since they will actually be used.

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Originally Posted by JCU

1.) A segment of collectors exist who want unmolested consoles as something modded can lead to problems.
2.) Ebay has plenty of SNES consoles (complete minus box) well under $100 American dollars. Of course there are quite the optimistic sellers out there who want more.

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This is the correct answer.

The more I sell on Ebay and Etsy the more I realize there's a stupid amount of money out there. The people who have it couldn't care less about the price as long as it's "the good one" or at least presented well. I routinely get more more for old SLRs because I test them and take better pictures than most of the other sellers. I ask what I want to get these days. I get snitty emails from time to time but I'm out to pay my bills.

My local games store will be glad to sell you a modified Super Nintendo for $150. And by modified I mean that they've covered it with bright colored spraypaint. Its strange because there's a few shops I know that were practically giving away Super Nintendos a few years ago.

I think JCU nailed it, collectors are looking for consoles that aren't modified and they're willing to pay a premium for them.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Some would disagree with that.

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/thr...post1065083182

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Itsa me!

If anything, your pic is showing that the colors are a little light, but that's probably just the camera, it probably looks fine in person.

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Originally Posted by GohanX

Itsa me!

If anything, your pic is showing that the colors are a little light, but that's probably just the camera, it probably looks fine in person.

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The camera never does it justice. The screen image gets a lot of luminance that isn't seen with the human eyes.

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Originally Posted by xelement5x

I will admit, I'd prefer a stock console and the HD Retrovision cables over a modified console. Especially if the console is in really nice shape. Plus, if you've already got a SNES buying a new one with mods is kind of dumb if you can just buy the cables to upgrade your quality. So this limits your market even more, down to mainly people that either 1) are just getting into retrogaming and want a SNES with good output, or 2) have a beater/yellow SNES and want to replace it with a nicer looking one and want the output options as a bonus. Low demand means people aren't going to want to pay a lot for it either.

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I agree. At first I was hesitant to mod my two Super Nintendos, or mod one and leave the other unmodified and use HD Retrovision cables with it. But when those cables became sold out, the high prices they were going for on ebay was too irresistible to pass up, so I sold my HD Retrovision cables. Before HD Retrovision cables were created, component modded SNES consoles on ebay sold quickly because at the time it was the only way to get direct component video from them without having to use an external box that would take up an outlet. But now buyers are more informed nowadays, HD Retrovision cables being one of the reasons to stick to unmoddifed consoles, the other to get SCART along with an OSSC or Framemeister (or that cheaper, crappy $50 SCART to HDMI box). Modified SNES Minis are still popular though, which have the clearest, sharpest picture on both S-Video and RGB. Me personally, I prefer the softer look of the older SNES revisions, they also don't slow down Super FX games.

S-Video modded Sega Genesis consoles are also less popular now then they were before. Ones with overclock and region switch mods are still sought after though. There's collectors out there that just don't want their consoles touched (just as CrossBow mentioned). I'm sure at the very least, collectors are willing to let their consoles have preventative maintenance done such as having the power caps replaced with new ones, their games have new batteries put in, etc. CrossBow, that would drive me nuts because I just don't fully understand the whole idea about keeping consoles "untouched" when the Hi-Def mod is actually very useful. It still allows for the old analog A/V outputs to be used if need be and also allows for much better picture quality on an HDTV.

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Originally Posted by roadkill

CrossBow, that would drive me nuts because I just don't fully understand the whole idea about keeping consoles "untouched" when the Hi-Def mod is actually very useful. It still allows for the old analog A/V outputs to be used if need be and also allows for much better picture quality on an HDTV.

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Well...my personal front loader NES I did mod with the Hi-Def NES kit and it actually made me want to play the NES more having done so. I will agree that my only nitpick with it, is that it is essentially emulating all the audio and I'm still not quite happy with how low a volume the expanded audio stuff is compared to an actual NES with the resistor mod installed on it. But the picture clarity is just amazing to me!

Now with the NES classic soon to be re-released again, I'm sure I will pick one up, mod it with lots more games, and that will be something my wife would be more apt to like and want to use. I do agree that s-video modding Genesis systems now, with the HDretrovision cables doesn't seem like much of a point in having done. I personally do not have an overclock mod on my Genesis as the one and only time I attempted to mess with that, I had severe issues in getting the CPUs to work stable. Mainly issues with the sockets I had installed to put the CPUs into. My normal used Genesis is a va2 model 1 with a signetics, so to get any real results I knew I would have to try different CPUs in it. But honestly my va2 refuses to work with any other 68x CPUs other than the original signetics it came with. Very odd...

But a lot of my friends who are retro gamers have had me mod their consoles for s-video..or audio mods...etc. So again I think if you are actually playing the games on the actual hardware, that modding them to make them better and easier to use today is fine. I think most of the purists tend to do their retro gaming on emulators or have more expensive AV setups vs what I was originally starting off with.

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Originally Posted by CrossBow

Well...my personal front loader NES I did mod with the Hi-Def NES kit and it actually made me want to play the NES more having done so. I will agree that my only nitpick with it, is that it is essentially emulating all the audio and I'm still not quite happy with how low a volume the expanded audio stuff is compared to an actual NES with the resistor mod installed on it. But the picture clarity is just amazing to me!

Now with the NES classic soon to be re-released again, I'm sure I will pick one up, mod it with lots more games, and that will be something my wife would be more apt to like and want to use. I do agree that s-video modding Genesis systems now, with the HDretrovision cables doesn't seem like much of a point in having done. I personally do not have an overclock mod on my Genesis as the one and only time I attempted to mess with that, I had severe issues in getting the CPUs to work stable. Mainly issues with the sockets I had installed to put the CPUs into. My normal used Genesis is a va2 model 1 with a signetics, so to get any real results I knew I would have to try different CPUs in it. But honestly my va2 refuses to work with any other 68x CPUs other than the original signetics it came with. Very odd...

But a lot of my friends who are retro gamers have had me mod their consoles for s-video..or audio mods...etc. So again I think if you are actually playing the games on the actual hardware, that modding them to make them better and easier to use today is fine. I think most of the purists tend to do their retro gaming on emulators or have more expensive AV setups vs what I was originally starting off with.

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That makes sense. I didn't know there was going to be a rerelease of the NES Classic Edition. I agree with everything you said about the Hi-Def NES, when I first got it I also was very much into playing it because of how clear it looked. But when the V3.01 update came out, I was disappointed by the fact that it screwed up the expansion audio on a few FDS games and made certain games on the analog A/V output not work at all. So I downgraded back to the version that came with my Hi-Def kit. I've increased the volume levels on the expansion audio channels to either max or close to max, so I will agree that it sounds lower. But I also have the resistor mod for expansion audio in the form of the ENIO board that plugs into the expansion slot, so it's not permanent. It works for when I use the analog output.

I would use SCART to component or HD Retrovision cables with my Sega Genesis, but I can never get it to work on any HDTV in my setup. My HDTV plays SNES on component just fine, but on Genesis it loses sync. The only way I'm able to somewhat play Genesis on component is to plug it into a component to HDMI converter that surprisingly supports 240p, very rare for a cheap Chinese converter to do that. But it looses sync when trying to play two player mode on Sonic 2. So I just stick with S-Video, which still looks very good anyway. I use an S-Video to VGA upscaler for the least amount of input lag (cheap HDMI upscalers are pretty bad with input lag).

As for overclocking a Genesis, I don't really have any plans to do that. I have a spare Genesis model 1 that's completely dissembled lying around somewhere in my junk pile, so I may give it a try someday, along with the region mod.

I just thought of something that might also explain why only unmodded consoles sell as they do. Simply put..uninformed buyers. See I would think people paying that much for unmodded and original condition consoles, pay that much simply because they aren't aware they shouldn't? And it could also be that they see 'modded' in the title or other parts of the description and again, not totally knowing what that might mean, they shy away from it.

Resellers that don't buy modded consoles are doing so because as was also stated, they don't really know the quality of the work that was done to it. If you pay a large amount of money towards something like that. You want to make sure it will work for sometime to come if you are going to possible resell it.

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Originally Posted by CrossBow

I just thought of something that might also explain why only unmodded consoles sell as they do. Simply put..uninformed buyers. See I would think people paying that much for unmodded and original condition consoles, pay that much simply because they aren't aware they shouldn't? And it could also be that they see 'modded' in the title or other parts of the description and again, not totally knowing what that might mean, they shy away from it.

Resellers that don't buy modded consoles are doing so because as was also stated, they don't really know the quality of the work that was done to it. If you pay a large amount of money towards something like that. You want to make sure it will work for sometime to come if you are going to possible resell it.

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Fair point, I never thought of it in that way.

Perhaps if I put "RGB" together with "component" in the ebay title, buyers may be a little more knowledgeable on what it is, and perhaps I can show pictures of the inside of it. I put in the description that I replaced the 7805 voltage regulator with a modern switching voltage regulator that no longer requires the heatsink which should be better for the SNES console in general. But I'm glad my SNES didn't sell, because now I know for sure that it needs to be recapped. My other SNES, which is my main one atm, is fine. It needed repairs when I first got it though. Just a new power jack and I also replaced the voltage regulator on it with a modern one.

I've noticed this page up on Stone Age Gamer for quite some time now, it has been stuck on "pre-order" ever since I first saw it. Look at the price they're asking for though:
http://www.stoneagegamer.com/custom-...gb-modded.html

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Originally Posted by CrossBow

I just thought of something that might also explain why only unmodded consoles sell as they do. Simply put..uninformed buyers. See I would think people paying that much for unmodded and original condition consoles, pay that much simply because they aren't aware they shouldn't? And it could also be that they see 'modded' in the title or other parts of the description and again, not totally knowing what that might mean, they shy away from it.

Resellers that don't buy modded consoles are doing so because as was also stated, they don't really know the quality of the work that was done to it. If you pay a large amount of money towards something like that. You want to make sure it will work for sometime to come if you are going to possible resell it.

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With most collectibles, there is more value when the item is unmolested and free from alterations. People will pay whatever they deem appropriate. Many factors go into such a decision and paying more than you might doesn't make them uninformed.

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Originally Posted by roadkill

Fair point, I never thought of it in that way.

Perhaps if I put "RGB" together with "component" in the ebay title, buyers may be a little more knowledgeable on what it is, and perhaps I can show pictures of the inside of it. I put in the description that I replaced the 7805 voltage regulator with a modern switching voltage regulator that no longer requires the heatsink which should be better for the SNES console in general. But I'm glad my SNES didn't sell, because now I know for sure that it needs to be recapped. My other SNES, which is my main one atm, is fine. It needed repairs when I first got it though. Just a new power jack and I also replaced the voltage regulator on it with a modern one.

I've noticed this page up on Stone Age Gamer for quite some time now, it has been stuck on "pre-order" ever since I first saw it. Look at the price they're asking for though:
http://www.stoneagegamer.com/custom-...gb-modded.html

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Heh, maybe it's painted because the base was a yellowed unit.

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Originally Posted by xelement5x

Heh, maybe it's painted because the base was a yellowed unit.

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That's what I was thinking :D

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Originally Posted by gamevet

I have mine connected to a Sony KV-32HS420 CRT. It's an HD CRT that will expose bad image quality.



I'm not experiencing color saturation.

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachm...7&d=1515040377

Some would disagree with that.

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/tnl/thr...post1065083182

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Idk, maybe it depends on the TV, honestly. Because component from my Super Nintendo, either from the mod or from HD Retrovision cables, looks MUCH better than S-Video on my HDTV. I've even tried it on someone else's DLP HDTV and it worked and looked great as well.

I'm just going to have to assume that it can look different between all TVs or PVMs. I remember in the old forum topic I read that had the circuit I used for component (not from sega-16), it had one person complaining that they could never get the colors to look right, but it looks fine on my HDTV, and the person who posted the circuit said it looked great on their CRT TV too.