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This is one of the images from a GDC with Sonic’s creators about how the game was made. This particular one shows that the colorful expanded cast was ALWAYS a core tenement of the franchise and its stability. So you shitty friends naysayers can finally silence, it was always meant to be this way.
Well, clearly someone in there had the idea to constantly add friends, in fact they did so even in the old games, adding tails, knuckles, amy and those losers from the arcade game and chaotix. The problem was that there was no one saying to stop.
The first few friends all added something to the game:
1. Tails was the close friend and the intelligent one.
2. Knuckles was the rival turned friend and the strong one.
3. Amy was the "love" interest that could have made for a nice playable female character (and did later in Sonic Advance).
4. Metal was the evil twin.
There were the other inconsequential loser friends nobody cared about either way.
But then something really bad happened. Voice acting.
Suddenly those other friends weren't just there being useless losers, they were actively there being annoying.
The old characters instead of just serving their story purpose and being a nice play alternative became a mandatory part of the experience.
And they also started talking and being annoying while they were at it.
Then new characters were introduced that overrode the purpose of old characters, like Shadow. Fuck Shadow. Fuck Silver too who is even worse. Why are all these crazy powerful psychic hedgehogs in the games? It barely makes sense that Sonic is the main character with these guys around, and it relegated Robotnik to the sidelines.
Adding friends was not the problem, not stopping was. Every Sonic character after Knuckles is Waluigi.
I know it won't end here, but really, this conversation is most likely better chalked up to different strokes...
Sonic form the beginning had shit ideas. Sonic was to be a human pilot who had spiky hair and some weird crap. he was to have a human girlfriend named Madonna *****COUGHSONIC06COUGH***** Sonic was going to be in a rock band. The core group of Tails,Knuckles and maybe Metal are fine. Everything after that is a shit show. Having a post saying neener neener this was always the plan is just saying Sonic always had bad ideas and it's true. Sonic kinda always had bad ideas and this topic is just confirming that.
https://nintendoeverything.com/sonic...ce-animations/
FTR I don't hate Sonic. I own plenty of games and merch. I'm actually a fan but I dislike Sonic fans in general (same with Shenmue and it's fans) Just won't recognize the series real shortcomings even in the early days. SEGA had lightning in the bottle but by 3D Blast, SEGA already didn't know really what to do with the series. They have been struggling ever since and get a decent game out here and there sandwiched between garbage.Quote:
The story of a man who tirelessly sought to fly his plane at yet-unknown speeds.
His hair, always standing up, led to him being called the “Hedgehog.”
The nose art on the plane he flew depicted Sonic.
He got married to an author of children’s literature, and she wrote a children’s story about a hedgehog that was based on him.
Sorry, I don’t see how this relates to Sonic 1. Can someone explain it to me?Quote:
Originally Posted by miru
I have had zero issue with Sonic's friends. Then again, my first game was Sonic 2. I love all of them.
You know Sonic Team didn't even try when they have characters the name Cream & Cheese. A developer just named a character after his lunch because he had 8 more Sonic games to pump out that year. Silver facepalms himself or is a silver pot leaf on his head...yeah you know what Sonic 06 they were stoned. No doubt. Miles Prower is pretty clever and Knuckles fit. Then they just ran out of idea..ok a cat who is um ...also fast and um we call it BLAZE! Right around SA, every Sonic friend became every deviant art Sonic fan art.SEGA knew this and said let's stop making crappy new characters in Sonic Forces!
Funny enough that's kinda brilliant wiped their hands clean and let the fans have their shit character.
lol I love it https://kotaku.com/people-are-creati...-ch-1820255991
lol This was my same thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMatthews
It was one of the images shown about the concept art revealed.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMatthews
Yeah, I can make out Cream the rabbit and the alligator from Knuckles Chaotix in the picture... did they specifically say that they had planned this from the beginning or are you reading between the lines? Taking the quote at face value, I’m left with the impression that they are just “collecting technology.”Quote:
Originally Posted by miru
And did they say that ensemble picture was actually concept art from the original game? Because it just looks like the artists are making a fun picture with the characters they created.
These are honest questions, I’m not just trying to hassle you. I just don’t see the evidence that are are offering with that screenshot.
Absolutely wonderful voice acting, at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
:lol:
Doesn't matter what the intent was, the end product is what matters. Original Sonic trilogy didn't have so many shitty characters. Also, the ones that were there didn't talk, which is a HUGE deal. Once a shitty character starts to talk, he/she becomes more "important" he/she gets more screen time and he/she, obviously, becomes much more annoying. Even Sonic himself became annoying, he didn't even need all those friends.
Has anyone actually seen the GDC talk that this was from? I ask because that slide looks like it could be talking about the game's development, not the characters (unbeatable opponent = Nintendo/Mario, technology = Mega Drive's abilities vs NES, allies = dev team), and has possibly been taken out of context.
Sonic Mania was the perfect amount of extra characters needed.
Lets be honest here guys, the problem with Sonic's friends is that you have two kinda friends.
You got the classic retro whatever friends, who show up and are just there. Like Knuckles and Vector and Espio and Tails.
And then you got the.. NEW FRIENDS, who are pretty much created for the "new Sonic fan", the kinda fan who goes too deeply into the Sonic lore.
The kinda fan who has a baby blanket with Cream the Rabbit on it, the kinda fan who "enjoys" Rouge the Bat, the kinda fan who proudly sports that Big the Cat wallpaper/avatar.
The kinda fan who writes fanfics about Silver and Shadow in a Miami Vice kinda setting. (Yes, Robotnik is the angry boss who often demands their badge)
Sonic having friends/allies was never the problem, the new Sonic fan is the problem.
I actually enjoy everything about Sonic Adventure bitd. I played through each of the characters, which provided for a nice story-arc. Sort of like today's Nier games and its predecessors. I actually thought the E-101 Gamma storyline was very heartfelt and liked that character a lot. Also, I dug the whole Big the Cat with Froggy story. I was reminded of Frogger and I also love cats, so it felt like a take on the former. It was also touching, I felt. Also, I didn't mind the girls, I just couldn't quite figure out which was supposed to be with Sonic. Amy just looked like a todler, imo. She's more Tails material. The bat girl was more his age.
P.S.> The one issue I had was with the controls with Knuckles in part 2. Part 1 had different control styles for each of the side characters, but at least they controlled just fine. Knuckles in SA2 was vomit-inducing, gameplaywise.
If I remember correctly, and I think I am, they were all part of cancelled Sound Test feature. Sonic and his band would play whilst you listened to a song - it was scrapped either due to space constraints or time.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMatthews
I knew you’d come. And Yoshi should have stayed trashed, right? And why are the characters shitty even when mute? They still bring something to the gameplay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulis
Gamma is fine, Gamma adds a little to the game. Only friend after the trilogy of any worth. Interestingly it is also the only character with 0 appeal to deviant art sonic fans.
I’d read that.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoVamp
They were. They weren't implemented due to time constraints and the space was then used for the Sega chant.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jackal
I cannot rep you enough for this perfectly well written post.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoVamp
Probably bc he doesn't fall into the furries category:pQuote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
I never had a problem with all the characters, but of course the focus should always stay on the original trifecta of Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles. I think I just remember them as their characters from the comics and Sonic X, where they were given better characterization and things to do.
Thanks for the confirmation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornholio857
The crazy part is, that was probably the right call. To plug in the cartridge and hear that sound set Sonic apart from any other game at the time. It was expensive in terms of cart space, but worth it for the initial impact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornholio857
Meh.Quote:
Originally Posted by miru
I don't think all these extra characters added anything in the Sonic franchise except making Sonic look less significant. Even Tails and Knuckles only helped to make Sonic look unimportant. I mean, both these characters run as fast as Sonic but they have extra abilities as well with Tails flying and Knuckles punching, climbing and gliding. Then you had Chaotix with even more characters that run as fast as Sonic. So what's so special about Sonic then? How is he a hero? If so many characters share his speed and even sport extra abilities on top of that... why is Sonic the main character? Because of his "personality" or something?
The characters in the Sonic franchise are shitty even when mute because most of them have terrible and random designs and add nothing in the games except for the sake of having more characters.
By the time Tails has his own abilities, and Knuckles exists, Sonic can attack without touching enemies, and gets additional boosts from shields(double jump, bounce, and dash). So it's not exactly like they didn't give it any thought.
Plus, in 3D he's the only one with homing attacks(unless I've missed something, I haven't exactly been keeping up with the 3D ones).
Nobody's going to agree with the next two opinions, but I'm going to provide them anyway just because:
1. Shadow is a way better rival and evil twin than Knuckles and Metal ever were. His personality ensured he wouldn't fall into the typical "rival becomes a friend and the rivalry is forgotten about" trap that Knuckles fell into. And his design is way better than Metal Sonic's. With him having a personality unlike Metal Sonic.
2. Fuck Tails. He is beyond worthless. He is not cool. His gameplay is not cool, and yet it somehow manages to make the main star of the franchise look worse by comparison (he can fly, what has Sonic done for me lately?), his design is not cool and in both Sonic 2 and Sonic 3&K he was a load on your back instead of a helper, making the game harder instead of aiding you. In Sonic 2 having him around made the Special Stages have higher ring requirements, which, with him being uncontrollable but very vulnerable meant you were going to have a bad time. In both games he can steal your air bubbles in the underwater levels, leaving you to die (which happened far too many times to me). And with the true final boss of S3&K, the bastard managed to hit the boss before I did, trigger the boss' recovery invincibility, causing me to fall to my death when I got to him. Fuck Tails sideways with a rusty crowbar.
*mic drop*
I have nothing against them as long they play more os less like Sonic in the games or they add nothing like Shadow. Spindash is obligatory for me.