Is Tekken Tag Tournament the most impressive looking console game of 2000?

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Originally Posted by SegataS

PS2 games were always blurry textures. Gamecube had really sharp ones.Download some Sonic 2 texture packs. Work of beauty. Looked great on Gamecube as well. Things were downgraded for PS2 on DC ports and even Sonic Heroes was downgraded. RE4 looked awful on PS2 and use pre-recorded cut scenes. Costumes do not show up. PS2 games were always blurry textures. Gamecube had really sharp ones.Download some Sonic 2 texture packs. Work of beauty. Looked great on Gameube as well. Things were downgraded for PS2 on DC ports and even Sonic Heroes was downgraded. RE4 looked awful on PS2 and use pre-recorded cut scenes. Costumes do not show up. Won't even listen to someone who says PS2 had better textures. Next, you will say N64 had sharp textures. PS2 was a blurry jaggy mess.

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Lmao.
By saying that DC games had better ports on the GC than on the PS2 you're just proving my point: DC/GC had vastly different architectures when compared to the PS2.
Now, let me make use of your broken logic: Metal Gear Solid 2 had several effects removed and cut down when it was ported to the Xbox. So the Xbox sucks for effects and it's for sure inferior to the PS2. :D

And too bad you have such little knowledge about PS2's library. All you know is lame ports from other consoles.
Transformers, Grand Prix Challenge, Black, Burnout 3, etc. Games you certainly never played.

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Originally Posted by Yharnamresident

But the best solution is to have both options

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If you wanted to dumb down the game and sell out the casuals, I guess. I'm glad Yu Suzuki and AM#2 kept the DC version true to the Arcade and where it was a driving sim.

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Grandia II could've used some PS2 post-processing effects.

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It didn't need too and I'm sure some of the fire effects and the like are using MPEG like the Magic spells, hence why the game used just under a Million Polygons; because MPEG uses in-game meant DC polygons performance was halved.
It still looks way better than the PS2 version, but that's to be expected as games build around one system than to lose out when being ported to another

One game I find a bit interesting to look at as far as ports are concerned is Phanatasy Star Online. It was developed for the Dreamcast, then ported to the GC, Xbox, and PC. But no PS2 port was ever made. What we later got for the PS2 was Phantasy Star Universe. A new game that was made from the ground up for the PS2. While in a many areas such as overall graphics PSU was superior to PSO, one area that it felt like a step backwards was map variety and progression.

In PSO the areas were usually split into 2-3 sub areas with large and complex maps that were interesting to explore. You had a large variety of enemies available as well. Basically if an enemy was part of that area's enemy group it could effectively spawn in any of those 3 sub areas.

In Phantasy Star Universe those same large sub areas now became there own standalone quest that you'd take with a party. After each one there was a new lobby area you'd reach where you'd select the next quest. So for those who didn't play PSU but played PSO, think of it like this. You decide to take the quest for Ruins 1. After completing Ruins 1 instead of being taken to Ruins 2 you get taken back to the lobby where you can take the Ruins 2 quest. Going further, each one of these quests had the areas broken up into smaller blocks. Each block had it's own set of enemies. This was usually limited to 3-5 enemy types per block if I remember correctly. So some enemies could only spawn in certain blocks.

It was later revealed that this issue was due to the PS2 and it's memory limitations. After PS2 support was dropped from the game, the PC version suddenly got new maps with much larger block sizes with unlimited enemy types. So I'm curious if this is why PS2 never got it's own port of the original PSO.

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

One game I find a bit interesting to look at as far as ports are concerned is Phanatasy Star Online. It was developed for the Dreamcast, then ported to the GC, Xbox, and PC. But no PS2 port was ever made. What we later got for the PS2 was Phantasy Star Universe. A new game that was made from the ground up for the PS2. While in a many areas such as overall graphics PSU was superior to PSO, one area that it felt like a step backwards was map variety and progression..

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Not just that, I felt that texture wise it was a step backwards. PSU was more vast, but PSO looked the more impressive game imo. Also going back to Grandia II on the DC, I did like the dynamic lighting on things like the Campfire and some of the magic spells

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Originally Posted by Barone

And too bad you have such little knowledge about PS2's library. All you know is lame ports from other consoles.
Transformers, Grand Prix Challenge, Black, Burnout 3, etc. Games you certainly never played.

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Or Ape Escapes or Gran Turismos or God of Wars

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

If you wanted to dumb down the game and sell out the casuals, I guess. I'm glad Yu Suzuki and AM#2 kept the DC version true to the Arcade and where it was a driving sim.

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Calling people pussies if they don't like 1st-person view. Are you addicted to starting beef?

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

It didn't need too and I'm sure some of the fire effects and the like are using MPEG like the Magic spells, hence why the game used just under a Million Polygons; because MPEG uses in-game meant DC polygons performance was halved.
It still looks way better than the PS2 version, but that's to be expected as games build around one system than to lose out when being ported to another

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I looked at some other games and I can't really tell if polygons are typically used to create fires, but the game still might've benefited from some bloom and depth of field.


Anyways, I think a few of you guys were curious about Tokyo Xtreme Racer 2 and it does appear to have decent poly counts. Its usually between 15000-20000 polys a frame:

https://i.imgur.com/jpTxnJSl.png

1 million polys per second

https://i.imgur.com/NxvMqCAl.png

1.1 million polys per second

https://i.imgur.com/HS1iBh4l.png

1.26 million polys per second

https://i.imgur.com/BtKvozkl.png

1.5 million polys per second

And I also picked a super random PS2 game, that was built from the ground up for PS2:

https://i.imgur.com/45qzsttl.png

1.1 million polys per second

https://i.imgur.com/edjXytZl.png

1.26 million polys per second

Anyways thats enough ISO downloading for me. I'm quite sick of using this finicky outdated emulator.

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Originally Posted by Yharnamresident

Calling people pussies if they don't like 1st-person view

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Never called them that, only causals. F355 wasn't a game for the casuals. It was brutal in the Arcades and thankfully also on the DC, It was only meant for the serious racer. Like a UK review said for the DC version back in the day. 'Only one viewpoint, HARDCORE' and that about summed up F355.
Mind you Ridge Racer in the Arcades only offered one view, so maybe not lol

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I looked at some other games and I can't really tell if polygons are typically used to create fires

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It would depend on the scene, but the game made heavy use of mixing in Real Time GFX along with MPEG Softdec effects and when a game does that, the DC polygon output is more or less cut in Half. Some of the magic spells looked incredible, I loved the Softdec used on the magic spell, to the end of the battle when you 1st meet Millenia.

any person who plays racing games from third person I call a noob.

Like 95% of console racing games are played from 3rd-person.

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Originally Posted by bultje112

any person who plays racing games from third person I call a noob.

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I wouldn't quite go that far, but yes if you are playing a non-Arcade style racing game in 3rd person, you aren't a serious racer. I don't know of any serious racer who plays a racing game in 3rd person and when F1 drivers use their driving sim, its always In-Car view; Speaking of which I remember reading in a F1 mag where Toranosuke Takagi said that F335 was 95% perfect to what it was to drive around Suzuka in real life and how Rubens Barrichello was so impressed he bought the Arcade game himself.

F355 was a true racing sim.

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Originally Posted by Yharnamresident

Like 95% of console racing games are played from 3rd-person.

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no they're not.

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Originally Posted by Barone

Lmao.
By saying that DC games had better ports on the GC than on the PS2 you're just proving my point: DC/GC had vastly different architectures when compared to the PS2.
Now, let me make use of your broken logic: Metal Gear Solid 2 had several effects removed and cut down when it was ported to the Xbox. So the Xbox sucks for effects and it's for sure inferior to the PS2. :D

And too bad you have such little knowledge about PS2's library. All you know is lame ports from other consoles.
Transformers, Grand Prix Challenge, Black, Burnout 3, etc. Games you certainly never played.

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I own every PS system including PocketStation and own a lot of games for PS2 and sold many more. You have no idea what I have owned or played and some of those games came late in the systems life. Not exactly fair to compare games released late in PS2's life to DC which never had a full life cycle.


As for those people above talking about racing. I have played some sims like GT or Forza and not sure PGR is a sim or not. Played a few others. I just prefer arcade racers. not a car person and don't even drive IRL. Give me Daytona USA or Mario Kart over Forza or Driveclub.

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Originally Posted by bultje112

no they're not.

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I don't know whats the best estimate, but I do think playing racing games in 3rd-person is the norm. I also think Team Andromeda is essentially right with how hes says 1st-person is more suited for simulation games.

If you look at something like GTA Online races, no one uses 1st-person view because its a disadvantage.

no it's not the norm. in any kind of competitive racing environment at conventions or online it's first person only.

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Originally Posted by bultje112

no it's not the norm. in any kind of competitive racing environment at conventions or online it's first person only.

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Except for an arcade racer like Daytona USA or Sega Rally. Most higher level players you see playing those games play in the most zoomed out camera perspective because it makes it easier to see where your car is on the track to make adjustments when you're drifting around a corner. Now for a driving sim like Forza, Gran Turismo, Assetto Corsa, etc. this doesn't really make sense or work. Those games are more focused on recreating the realistic experience of driving those cars in real life, not driving as flashily as possible at unrealistic speeds. For those games it makes more sense to play in first person perspective.

I can't imagine a Wipeout game in the first person lol.