Worse, it turned into a thread about video resolutions, not even arguing about game æsthetics.
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Worse, it turned into a thread about video resolutions, not even arguing about game æsthetics.
Pfff, such complaints.
You can't blame people from sharing/digging stuf, especially when it's about resolution which is directly connected to aesthetic (at least during these generations where resolution also means picture format. Dunno how it turned out afterwards).
What saddens me is the bias.
To write off SNES' graphics as a whole just due to its resolution is pure bias.
It's also bias to boast endlessly about the 320 x 224 advantages when in reality: 1) Lots of MD games have to waste the supposed extra detail with dithering, big areas with solid colors and whatnot due to its rather limited coloring capabilities; 2) Many games also waste a good chunk of the screen with non-transparent HUDs, something which plagues the SNES quite less (see Konami games); 3) For the shitty encoding the MD offers out-of-the-box, the higher res contributes to deteriorate the graphical fidelity even further.
And it sucks to derail the once fun discussion about aesthetics in order to have a half-assed, biased ode to the MD graphics.
Pixel shape and resolution contribute to overall game aesthetics. Since back in the 16-Bit era as a kid, always loved how resolution of Sega Genesis games looked more Arcade like compared to SNES. Was one of several things contributing to switching from SNES fandom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sik
@Barone: I did mention some games in 256x224 pixels in my post about the best-looking 4th gen games and I could mention some others but I just prefer games in 320x224 or 320x240 pixels which is totally my right.
Then every systems back then used dithering, some less than others but there are still many SNES games for example which use dithering not to mention that dithering is less apparent once displayed on CRT as these systems are meant to be played.
Then about MD games with non-transparent HUD bar, in some cases it could have been avoided ye (Sunset Riders or Hyperstone Heist) but in others it was done on purpose, usually when using higher screen resolution, to fill up the remaning space in order to keep everything with same proportions and better aspect ratio once in 4:3 (Raiden MD or Blackthorne 32X for examples) meaning that it's actually an improvement compared to some other ports/versions.
And there are actually more PC Engine or SNES games affected by such problem, with non-transparent HUD bar and/or black border(s). Just to name a few: Aero Blasters (PCE), Street Fighter II (PCE), Outrun (PCE), Altered Beast (PCE), Golden Axe (PCE), Cool Spot (SNES), DKC 1 and 2 (SNES), many of the SNES beat 'em ups, etc.
And the Mega Drive has the sharpest RGB as well as the blurriest composite, the latter doing a perfect job at blending pixels together which is the only reason to play with compsite so I don't see any issue here either.
Composite on the Genesis is the worst I’ve ever seen on a console. How is it that the TG-16 has a decent composite image quality, while the 240p Genesis image look pretty meh? I’m glad I finally got a component video cable for the Genesis, while S-Video works well enough for the SNES.
Co-op would ruin the gameplay idea of the game, I mean it could be there but just as an extra thing. One more enemy would be alright I guess but it's not really required unlike other SNES belt-scrollers. The whole idea of more enemies = immediately a better game is a cliche anyway, if that was the case MD Growl would be the best 16-bits belt-scroller.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yohko16
Yeah you could argue that a game has bigger resolution, more parallax, more colors, bigger or more sprites etc, but if you are inclined to only one of those aspects or value a certain art-style/theme more than others, the rest doesn't matter much, aesthetic value is mostly personal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sik
Dunno, pretty sure that if it would have been made for an arcade board, it would not only run in higher res but also with co-op option and more enemies at once and the Mega Drive could probably handle some if not all of these things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vludi
Having more enemies in such games matter but only if things such as enemy behavior, game's pace, etc. are well made otherwise it doesn't have as much of an impact on the gameplay.
As for aesthetic, some aspects are purely subjective (graphic style, color choices...) but some others are objective (resolution, color depth, scrollings, animation quality...).
Also, just to say (not to you vludi but in general), I guess I wouldn't focus as much on resolution if it was more widely acknowledged but guys, go ahead and try to make some SNES fanboys admit that the Mega Drive higher resolution is a factual plus, lol, better talk to a wall.
I'm a fan of Thunderforce IV personally.
Soulstar's quite a looker too, although I'm not a big fan of the game itself.
On the subject of Snatcher, a special shout-out goes to Policenauts and a number of hentai games on the PC-98; not 16-bit, but some damn impressive uses of 16 colours.
@Silanda: Thunder Force IV in optimized PAL version played on mania mode is a sight to behold :D
Such a fantastic game. not only it looks and sounds fantastic but it also plays like a dream, with wide playfield (two screens of height as I pointed out a few posts ago. How many other horizontal shooters of that era do this?), some cool weapons and good AI. A great achievement on all fronts :)
If it was an arcade they would most likely develop another belt-scroller removing what made the game interesting. NWA is a product of making the best they could with the console's limitations, it being single-player, single-plane and having 4 enemies are all connected and taken in consideration for good gameplay deisgn, arbitrary changes like adding co-op and more enemies would break the balance and require many changes like more planes and dumber AI, changing what made the game particular to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yohko16
Those are specs, not aesthetics. If we valued aesthetics like that then why even bother with old games with very limited resources.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yohko16
Gaiares and Gradius III do that. Thunder Force IV is a sight to behold though.
I don't know why you laughed, It was better than anything the MD could do and looked impressive. I agree with you on the F1 games though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yohko16
Never knew that was a bug tbh.Quote:
The game doesn't trigger the giant centipede which carries you to the final boss so you have to lose a life by jumping into the void or something and only after that the centipede finally deigns to come and carry yo
None better than Strider, well maybe that SEGA game with a Huge Dragon on the front coverQuote:
Yup! But there are so many Mega Drive japanese games with fantastic boxarts
The Cliffhanger sections look even better and the game runs smoother too.Quote:
The vehicle parts in Batman Returns look phenomenal!
@Vludi: I get your points about Ninja Warrior Again (well, it's not the first time that we talk about this :p) but I still feel that something better, or at least allowing co-op (which doesn't make a game necessarily better but is still a plus) could be done the way I described.
But specs directly condition or influence visuals.Quote:
Those are specs, not aesthetics. If we valued aesthetics like that then why even bother with old games with very limited resources.
And we bother about older hardwares and games because they have distinct personalities made of said specs ;)
I should try Gaiares, I always hear good things about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
Gradius though, these games do the vertical scrolling thing at some point but in a simpler way. Parodius Da! do this too and it's not really the same as in Thunder Force IV.
But I just remembered another hori shooter which trully does this the TF IV way: Bari-Arm :)
IMO said effects in Castlevania IV and Super Turrican 2 look like crap :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
And better?! I've seen better effects in Red Zone or Batman & Robin MD for example :)
It's subjective but IMO Thunder Force III and IV have equally as nice-looking boxarts and same for many others. IMO the Mega Drive japanese boxarts and Neo Geo boxarts are the best ever.Quote:
None better than Strider
Apparently there's also one scaling-based pseudo-3D section in the Mega-CD version of 3 Ninjas Kick Back. How does that one fare?Quote:
The Cliffhanger sections look even better and the game runs smoother too
No, somewhere near the end of Graidus III, the level moves diagonal and at a great pace. You have to move quickly through the moving tunnels. There's also areas where you can take the high path, or the low path to avoid enemies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yohko16