What is the best looking 16 bit game? excluding Neo geo

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Originally Posted by Kamahl

I find it at least mildly amusing that we're debating which of two above average looking games looks slightly better than the other.

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It's just that I can not see someone calling an incredible game of crap, especially when it takes one aspect only as a perpective and ignores everything else.
While the other is exacerbated taking a single aspect, and the worst points like having everything static and lifeless battles is justified by having transperent effects in use of items.

For me it's like saying that a Power Point presentation with blast scenes is better than watching an action movie. After all we are talking about paintings on the wall and not video games.

Along those lines, comparisons like this, seem to boil down to what parts of the game, someone prefers as more important.

For example, battles being over-the-shoulder, or side-to-side battles.

Environments being more detailed and rather ugly steampunk style... or less detailed and charming in PSIV lol.

Art style (anime realistic style, or SD style)

So I basically always feel that PSIV emphasizes aspects that I find more appealing. (Though other games obviously have different emphases that they take further, in their own direction, like the steampunk style, the mode-7 effects, etc.)

Also like I said, I don't really dig the SD style even in great SEGA games that I enjoy, like Pier Solar, the Lunar games, etc.

RPG games that I DO really enjoy their art style includes The Immortal, and Heimdall (SCD), both great realistic, hand-drawn art style. (Light Crusader too but I haven't played thru it.)

This is not my vid but it shows all the fatalities in The Immortal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB9O0__7oWg

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Originally Posted by Ecco

lol my point was, that his post had good content, and despite obviously not being a native English speaker, every word was completely clear what he meant.

So not only should we not be slamming people for being non-English-speakers: Not only that, but complaining about his post, made that person look like he is not familiar with English either lol, just to have trouble understanding Pyron's post, lol.

:rofl:

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Wasn't meant as a slam. I just struggle to understand his post. I struggle to understand people anyway. Apologies if it looked that way. And thanks for not taking the snark to heart. Was hoping someone laughed. :P

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Originally Posted by Ecco

Along those lines, comparisons like this, seem to boil down to what parts of the game, someone prefers as more important.

For example, battles being over-the-shoulder, or side-to-side battles.

Environments being more detailed and rather ugly steampunk style... or less detailed and charming in PSIV lol.

Art style (anime realistic style, or SD style)

So I basically always feel that PSIV emphasizes aspects that I find more appealing. (Though other games obviously have different emphases that they take further, in their own direction, like the steampunk style, the mode-7 effects, etc.)

Also like I said, I don't really dig the SD style even in great SEGA games that I enjoy, like Pier Solar, the Lunar games, etc.

RPG games that I DO really enjoy their art style includes The Immortal, and Heimdall (SCD), both great realistic, hand-drawn art style. (Light Crusader too but I haven't played thru it.)

This is not my vid but it shows all the fatalities in The Immortal:

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This has nothing to do with style preference, I much prefer the sci-fi world of Phantasy Star. That has nothing to with the level of artistic detail one game has over the other. PSIV is a minor graphical update to PSII, with those updates having to do with the limited cart space that PSII had. While FFIII(6) was a huge leap over what SquareSoft did with FFII. I’m pretty sure that if you logged the man hours put into the development of PSIV to to that of FFIII, you’d find a huge disparity.

There were reviewers in 1995 that criticized the graphics of PSIV as being dated, even by 1990 standards.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

Game devs didn't shun the N64 because they wanted to produce better games. The problem with carts and Nintendo has always been them gouging both publishers and consumers.

There's never been an N64 FFVII demo made public that I know of. I think that they once confirm that they never even began developing for N64. That CG demo was confirmed to be CG. It was just a fmv demo for people to fool around with.

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Yup, Final Fantasy VI: The Interactive CG Game was running on SGI Onyx and Indy2 workstations.
FFVII began on SNES but pre-production was halted to help the completion of Chrono Trigger.
When Square resumed the project in 1995 they decided to target the next generation of hardware and so they did some tests on PS1 and N64 prototype.
Square chose PS1 for the CD media but also because Sony gave them an awesome deal (lowest licensing fees and a bunch of money to market the game outside Japan).
The decision was taken around September 1995 and the first public announcement that FFVII was in development came through a TV ad in February 1996 which was quite odd (but understandable since it was a big win for Sony):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAMOhRruZ14

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Originally Posted by gamevet

There were reviewers in 1995 that criticized the graphics of PSIV as being dated, even by 1990 standards.

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Important note is that PS4 launched in 1993 on japan, one year before FF6, but only came to US in 1995.

http://www.defunctgames.com/pic/reviewcrew-mag-52.jpg
DIE HARD GAME FAN (April 1995)
97% out of 100%

"The ultimate Sega RPG has finally arrived. Although it mis-translated and has little connection to the previous games because of this, the game itself is the same and is undeniably one of the greatest RPGs ever fashioned. The graphics are beautiful, the music is powerful, and the non-stop original ideas make this cartridge an absolute must-own for the RPG enthusiast, chintzy packaging or not." -NickRox


http://www.defunctgames.com/pic/reviewcrew-mag-52b.jpg

ELECTRONIC GAMING MONTHLY #69
8.5 out of 10

"Having blown through the second and third games, I awaited PS4 as a welcome challenge and was not disappointed. The new magic technique where you combine magic spells was a plus. Everything from the large quest to the many characters will keep you glued to the TV; I know I was. Or maybe it was the fact that the game costs almost $100. Ouch! It's a great game, but the price will frighten many players away." -Dano


http://www.defunctgames.com/pic/maga...ro-feb1995.jpg
GAMEPRO (February 1995)
4 out of 5

"Phantasy Star IV is the latest installment in the monster of all Genesis RPGs, yet it never gives you the sense that you're about to embark on something special. Ah, but you are! In the end, End of the Millennium is amazingly rich in detail and will keep your TV screen bright as you explore everything and everywhere long after the rest of the house slumbers." -Peteroo



http://www.defunctgames.com/pic/maga...yers-feb95.jpg
GAME PLAYERS (February 1995)
70% out of 100%

"How can Sega hope to compete in the RPG world with the top SNES RPGs like Final Fantasy III and The Secret of Mana if Phantasy Star doesn't evolve? Still, fans of the series are gonna find that the adventure is well worth the wait, if only to play the same game they fell in love with four-titles ago. And with the poor selection of decent Genesis RPGs these days, who's going to argue?" -Chris Slate



IGN - PS4 Virtual console Review
https://www.ign.com/articles/2009/01...lennium-review

"Total 9.0
9 Presentation Phantasy Star IV's storyline and characters are deep and engaging, ensuring you'll want to fully explore the game's world. The spell names are odd, though.
8.5 Graphics The attractive anime-style cutscenes steal the show visually, though the battle sequences and environments have also gotten a graphical boost.
8.5 Sound A great soundtrack filled with memorable themes that compliment the visuals well.
8.5 Gameplay The final evolution of the core Phantasy Star RPG design. Lots of recruitable characters, time-saving macros in battle and more. Both classic and unique at the same time.
9.5 Lasting Appeal You still can't beat the value of RPGs on the VC, which offer 30-40 hours of gameplay for just a handful of cash. PSIV's biggest fans are still replaying it over and over to this day, too."



Nintendo Life - PS4 Virtual console Review
http://www.nintendolife.com/reviews/...irtual_console

"The visuals in Phantasy Star IV are easily the best of the 16-bit releases and offers plenty of diversity between the different areas of the game. Even the individual combat scenes share this same diversity and do a great job of conveying the scenery of the area your party is currently located in instead of just displaying the same generic background each time. The enemies also have their own unique animations, which further adds to the element of realism within the various combat scenarios. The Phantasy Star titles have always featured top notch visuals, but Sega really did a solid job of pushing their Mega Drive console's visual capabilities with this title.

It's great to see Sega, after taking a slightly experimental direction with Phantasy Star III, return the series to prosperity with what they were able to accomplish with Phantasy Star IV. You honestly couldn't ask for a better ending to the 16-bit series than the one found here. As outstanding as the series has been over the years, Phantasy Star IV really took it to new heights and still stands as one of the true rpg greats of the 16-bit era and a game that's as much fun to play through now as it was back then. Phantasy Star IV is yet another outstanding addition to the Virtual Console and a game that no true rpg enthusiast should pass up.
Excellent 9/10"

RPG FAN
http://www.rpgfan.com/reviews/phanta..._Star_4-4.html

"The animations for the battle graphics are really exceptional, though I cannot ignore the fact that there were less than a handful of monsters whose animation was a bit choppy, but this is really minor considering most RPGs of that era had worse animation. The monsters all have interesting designs and concepts, very colorful, very detailed. Your own party's characters are also given as much attention as the monsters, as they too are given nice attack animations and detail.

Special skills and techniques are yet one of the other things that caught my interest. Skills are earned through gaining levels through fighting, and each character is able to use a skill a set number of times, until your party rests at an inn. Techniques are pretty much what any other RPG would refer to as magic, as they run on the standard system of points, these being technique points rather than magic points. They too, are earned through gaining levels through fighting.

The graphical presentation of the skills and techniques is the same as the rest of the graphics... visually pleasing.

Phantasy Star IV was supposedly the last Phantasy Star title to be made, as the box clearly states, "The Explosive Finale", and it brought closure to many questions that were lying around regarding the previous titles. Upon reaching the end after approximately 30 hours of play, the ending satisfied me quite well, and I found the not-so-secret sound test to be a great reward for winning. Though it is, at the time of this writing, six years old, Phantasy Star IV remains one of the best RPGs ever made, still looking colorful and great, even to this date, an example of a well designed game, one that doesn't ever need a remake. I recommend this title to any, and all RPG players."

Germany Magazine
http://www.gazetadealgol.com.br/_med...-ps4_mf495.jpg

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Originally Posted by gamevet

PSIV is a minor graphical update to PSII, with those updates having to do with the limited cart space that PSII had. While FFIII(6) was a huge leap over what SquareSoft did with PSII.

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PSIV is a minor update on PSIII, but PSIII was a huge update from PSII graphically. PSIV looks astounding, on par with the best graphics on Genesis given the circumstances (it being a huge RPG with non-SD sprites). FF6 also wasn't that big a leap from FF5, so it's the same.

Um no, PSIV is actually an update on PSII (the engine clearly looks a lot closer to PSII than PSIII, to the point it actually lost some of the improvements the latter had like how it could have a lot more enemies in a single battle). Wasn't PSIII made by different people, too? Honestly haven't checked for sure but it definitely gives me the impression that the game feels completely unrelated to the other three in the tetralogy. Not to mention how PSIV tries to pretend that PSIII didn't happen aside from a few references (Wren being the big one).

I like PSIII and feel it gets a bad rep. It's a pretty good game and very ambitious. It did what Fable promised to do and Fable failed to deliver(grow old and have a family). Visually tho it's not great. I think PSIV looks nice just not nearly as nice as FFVI on a technical level. Art style is up to personal preference. I like FFVI more muted tone as I feel it's more atmospheric. That's just the other thing I feel Square was just so good at. They knew how to build an atmosphere in their game better than almost anyone at the time. PSIV had a nice sense of adventure with that 80s anime art style (which I love) but that feeling wasn't very unique among JRPGs then.

The problem with PSIII is that it feels as if it was originally going to be its own thing then got shoehorned into the Phantasy Star series pretty late. Heck, in the Japanese version Phantasy Star III is drawn as the freaking subtitle. It's a lot more understandable if it's not considered as a main entry (and would explain why the continuity goes PSII → PSIV, although it's sorta implied that PSIII is what happened to Parmanians after the PSII events).

Back on-topic, there's some Sega CD game that I wanted to bring up but right now I forgot which one was it @_@ (it wasn't a RPG) I'll come back to this when I remember which one.

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Originally Posted by Sik

Um no, PSIV is actually an update on PSII (the engine clearly looks a lot closer to PSII than PSIII, to the point it actually lost some of the improvements the latter had like how it could have a lot more enemies in a single battle). Wasn't PSIII made by different people, too? Honestly haven't checked for sure but it definitely gives me the impression that the game feels completely unrelated to the other three in the tetralogy. Not to mention how PSIV tries to pretend that PSIII didn't happen aside from a few references (Wren being the big one).

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In my opinion the PS3 still uses the same engine of PS2, I highly doubt that a group of newbies made a new engine and the whole game in just 6 months. Each game in the series was made by a different team but had someone from the original team to lead things, the PS3 was the only exception because all other members of the original team were already on other projects.

On the larger number of onscreen enemies on PS3 is also due to the fact that you no longer see the characters on the screen, on the PS4 you can battle with 4 enemies at once and display the 5 on-screen team members totaling 9. If we do the math, you actually end up the same achivs of PS2/3 anyway.

On the PS3 storyline only connects to the series at the end of the game, it was those revelations you did not expect but the PS4 ignores this because it really is not so relevant to end the story of the Algol system.

PSIII has always developed as a Phantasy Star game. I get what you mean tho.

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Originally Posted by paulojr_mam

PSIV is a minor update on PSIII, but PSIII was a huge update from PSII graphically. PSIV looks astounding, on par with the best graphics on Genesis given the circumstances (it being a huge RPG with non-SD sprites). FF6 also wasn't that big a leap from FF5, so it's the same.

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PSIV is obviously an update of PS2. The engine looks nearly identified. PSII had no backgrounds during combat, because they didn’t have the cart space left, so they opted to use that grid background in 2. PSIV does not look like a graphic upgrade to PSII. It looks like what PSII could have been with a larger cart, while FFVI was a big step up in every way from IV.

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Originally Posted by Pyron

Important note is that PS4 launched in 1993 on japan, one year before FF6, but only came to US in 1995.

http://www.defunctgames.com/pic/reviewcrew-mag-52.jpg
DIE HARD GAME FAN (April 1995)
97% out of 100%]

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I know it came out in 1993, yet the Sega defense force here is still trying to compare its graphics and production to that of FF6. It's delusional dude!

The review you quoted from EGM #69 was just one of the members. The other reviewer gave it a 7/10. But, I was never talking about game scores here. I was talking about the graphics and production value comparison of the 2 games, which is miles apart.

http://www.defunctgames.com/reviewcr...y-back-in-1995

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Originally Posted by Defunct Games

EGM=7/10: When I started PS4, it seemed I wasn't going to enjoy it at all because of how slow the story developed. Well, it took a while, but I found myself really getting into this game. The weapons, the magic, the potions, the characters and their abilities were all great. On the down side, I thought the graphics should have been cleaner and less dithered, and the music was a minor disturbance. All in all, a good game for the PS series." -Al

Game Players 70%: How can Sega hope to compete in the RPG world with the top SNES RPGs like Final Fantasy III and The Secret of Mana if Phantasy Star doesn't evolve? Still, fans of the series are gonna find that the adventure is well worth the wait, if only to play the same game they fell in love with four-titles ago. And with the poor selection of decent Genesis RPGs these days, who's going to argue?" -Chris Slate

Game Informer 8/10: "Although this game may slightly (only slightly) disappoint fans of the series, Genesis owners should rejoice that another RPG is available on the Sega. However, the graphics are still mediocre and the control on the overhead view is sloppy. Overall, Phantasy Star IV is a good RPG that should pacify its fans." -Andy, The Game Hombre

Next Generation 3/5: "If you're one of the many RPG-starved Genesis owners who have been waiting diligently for this game, don't worry -- it's still plenty of fun. But with nothing that goes above or beyond the previous titles - including the same 'mysterious' end boss - the future of this series isn't very bright."

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I just so happen to have the Next Generation magazine article that they are quoting.


https://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d...sazjrhjn5.jpeg

I hate you all. I loved both games a lot even with their differences!

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Originally Posted by BonusKun

I hate you all. I loved both games a lot even with their differences!

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I do too, but some people just can't accept that their beloved Game X isn't what they think it is. I loved Daytona on my good old Saturn, but I'm going to try to convince anyone that it looked as good as Ridge Racer on the PlayStation.

I hated PSIII BTW. The combat system was stupid.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

PSIV is obviously an update of PS2. The engine looks nearly identified. PSII had no backgrounds during combat, because they didn’t have the cart space left, so they opted to use that grid background in 2. PSIV does not look like a graphic upgrade to PSII. It looks like what PSII could have been with a larger cart, while FFVI was a big step up in every way from IV.

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Reminds me, I really wish Phantasy Star II had compressed the text like IV does, would have made the translation a lot less awkward (the English version omits a lot of details because English is less dense and they ran out of space — on the other hand English should compress better than Japanese, so compression could have actually allowed for more fleshed out text in the same memory space).

No, seriously, having to tone down details to make it fit actually introduced a pretty big plothole with Nei >_< You can't resurrect her after the fight with Neifirst because Nei isn't human and the clone labs guy was relying on the biolabs database for the non-human parts… and you just blew up that building, so he can't resurrect Nei anymore as a result — the English version removes the part about biolabs which makes it look like it's just because Nei isn't human but he was resurrecting her before just fine, hence the plothole.

Interesting......I did not know that.

Vectorman 2 is an amazing looking Genesis game with incredible sound.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

I do too, but some people just can't accept that their beloved Game X isn't what they think it is. I loved Daytona on my good old Saturn, but I'm going to try to convince anyone that it looked as good as Ridge Racer on the PlayStation.

I hated PSIII BTW. The combat system was stupid.

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https://i.imgur.com/bmKHIVI.png

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Originally Posted by gamevet

I do too, but some people just can't accept that their beloved Game X isn't what they think it is. I loved Daytona on my good old Saturn, but I'm going to try to convince anyone that it looked as good as Ridge Racer on the PlayStation.

I hated PSIII BTW. The combat system was stupid.

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It's funny, because this post portrays yourself, I think it's cool that you have the humility to assume that.

Everything you've cried so far was wrong, including the reviews, since you should know that one or two negative reviews you posted count nothing since the general and majority concept is completely the opposite that you claim, including modern reviews without having the nintendism charge. because you must know that this was common to happen at that time.

And no, you're going to stay for the rest of your life saying that the game graphically sucks and will go wrong, only people with no sense or SNES fanatics will agree with you.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Vectorman 2 is an amazing looking Genesis game with incredible sound.

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Unfortunately, Vectorman 2 was an outsourced cash-grab and looks and plays much worse than its predecessor. Nice main theme though (the song titled Reclamation).

Vectorman 2 does look worse than Vman 1, but I think it's mostly because they wanted so much to showcase light effects that they made it way too dark.

The first Vectorman was outsourced too… (to the same studio, in fact)

I think it's more to do with Vectorman 2 being less gimmicky overall which means less special effects. The few gimmick stages it does have are still sidescrollers using the same controls the rest of the game has. There's also the part where it opts to be more gritty, and that Vectorman was becoming irrelevant in the face of everybody moving to 3D games.

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Originally Posted by Pyron

It's funny, because this post portrays yourself, I think it's cool that you have the humility to assume that.

Everything you've cried so far was wrong, including the reviews, since you should know that one or two negative reviews you posted count nothing since the general and majority concept is completely the opposite that you claim, including modern reviews without having the nintendism charge. because you must know that this was common to happen at that time.

And no, you're going to stay for the rest of your life saying that the game graphically sucks and will go wrong, only people with no sense or SNES fanatics will agree with you.

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Again, it was never about the review scores. It was noted by several reviewers that the graphics were dated, and you went all crazy about that statement and started combing for reviews. There’s nothing special about the graphics, and they were dated, even by Genesis standards. It has no bearing on my enjoyment of PSIV, but I’ve never even considered the game to be a top 10 for Genesis graphics.

Leave the fanboy bullshit out of it. I owned a TG-16, Amiga 500, Genesis and SNES all at the same time. I’m console agnostic. I choose the games that I prefer not based on the hardware it is on.

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Originally Posted by zyrobs

Unfortunately, Vectorman 2 was an outsourced cash-grab and looks and plays much worse than its predecessor. Nice main theme though (the song titled Reclamation).

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Both were done by BlueSky Software, one of Sega's go-to developers (they did a ton of Genesis titles).

https://segaretro.org/BlueSky_Software

Almost all of Sega of America's titles were outsourced, by the way. That's what their business model was.

Something that always puzzled me was how some Western studios that came out of nowhere could do amazing things on the MD without having extensive background, although Verctorman 2 did not get past the first, the light effects they made were incredible at the time. Another good example of this is the Clockwork Tortoise Inc, arrived and left everyone with jaw dropped.

Ok guys just an fyi I don't want to Baloo you and just ask that you guys relax a little bit about Phantasy Star IV and Final Fantasy VI. Just agree to disagree and not get so heated about it. They're both damn good games so let's leave it at that.

I’m done.

I tried to move on with praising Vectorman 2.

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Originally Posted by BonusKun

Ok guys just an fyi I don't want to Baloo you and just ask that you guys relax a little bit about Phantasy Star IV and Final Fantasy VI. Just agree to disagree and not get so heated about it. They're both damn good games so let's leave it at that.

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https://i.imgur.com/Vt3E0LI.jpg

lol I never expected comparing the two would spiral out of control like this for pages and pages. It was meant as a passing comparison. lol, live & learn.

Well for my part of the conversation, I kept trying to make it clear that I have limited experience with RPG's in general, so my input was NOT arguing about overall best RPG's. (I don't know if this was understood or not, in the thread, lol.)

However, I also personally have a strong dislike of SD / Chibi art style... Which means I automatically dislike the art style of probably most RPG's...

I do acknowledge the superior aspects of FF6 that have been emphasized in the thread...

OTOH I still dislike the character art style, which does mostly turn me away from wanting to play it... I don't know if others can relate, to this perspective, or not.

Like I said, I don't like the SD / Chibi style, even in great SEGA games that I'm a fan of... inclu. Pier Solar and the Lunar games. I know these are great games but I still dislike the character art anyway...

And that's for SEGA games that I already own and I'm already a fan of, lol.
(Yet this thread makes me want to try out FF6. Bc I see its great aspects and I want to understand why these games are so popular and well-loved.)

That’s a lot of information to process.

Comparing RPGs is an endless waltz...

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Originally Posted by gamevet

That’s a lot of information to process.

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OK sorry, I cut down my post. I went on too much about my thoughts on different art styles lol.

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Originally Posted by Lync

Comparing RPGs is an endless waltz...

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Yeah!

I started out with Role Playing Games on Home computers before ever playing a Japanese RPG. I was used to playing against enemies from the AD&D world.

Return to thread

Mazin Saga

Superb colors
https://j.gifs.com/9QxJwz.gif

Bigger sprites and impressive animation in boss battles
https://j.gifs.com/oQN35X.gif

6 enemies at once
https://j.gifs.com/pQO4py.gif

Mazin Saga is awesome!

I have finished this game again in the last year, the bosses fights are fluid and very impressive, uses multi joiend sprites and the multi planes and priority tricks works very well on bkg, they can did a fighting game with this that's be awesome.

I still think Strider on the Mega Drive looks incredible and put most 16 bit games to shame

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vexcOKZtdaE&t=52s

And while the game wasn't great Puggys was a technical marvel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCzEwdqjJsM&t=544s

Not talking art but Strider is the most average looking game technically. Not talking about which game I prefer to play but in terms of visuals, Run Saber is better looking and I wouldn't consider that game one of the best looking either.