The tilting cat head in batman and robin looks much better than the worm in Super Turrican 2. The worm just looks silly. There are much better effects in Super Turrican 2, the worm is one of the worst.
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The tilting cat head in batman and robin looks much better than the worm in Super Turrican 2. The worm just looks silly. There are much better effects in Super Turrican 2, the worm is one of the worst.
Great thread!
Artistically maybe, technically the worm is better Its features full-screen scaling and complete 360 degree rotation . Though I would say Adv of Batman and Robin looks the far more impressive game , well maybe apart from that Lava stage in Super Turrican 2 which is a gfx showcase for the system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Wait, what? The Road Rash games are borderline unplayable? When did this happen? Why did nobody inform me? I was playing Road Rash II only the other day and was having a great time with it, as usual. I feel such a fool now...Quote:
Originally Posted by Orchid87
The worm also has no background to speak of, is heavily pixelated, and just rotates in a very unnatural way while the cat actually deformes its mouth as if it is laughing (which looks hella cool). The spider web looks much better for example in ST2, or the whirlpool. If you want good Mode-7 check out the witch boss fight in Mr. Nutz. Took me by surprise when I first saw it until I realized it's just very clever sprite use. If the background is pretending to be a sprite, then the sprites can pretend to be a background. Not only is it clever but it looks great too. The clown boss fight does the same thing to a lesser extent and also looks great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
See at 0:45 and 5:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX_HlhrSdhc
I agree, but its still scaled in and rotated 360 degrees. I never played Mr Nuts so I really can't comment on its GFX, much less what it was like to see its GFX back in the dayQuote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Yup, I know but it wasn't a reason for me to not point out that these sequences in Gradius III are much simpler compared to Thunder Force IV or Bari-Arm, which is what I did :pQuote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
@Orchid87: on the contrary, this what makes the Road Rash games (as well as Skitchin) so unique in technical terms and I never had issue playing them. Star Fox on SNES runs at about the same frame rate and it's not an issue either.
Lies. Unless I missed it but there's no SNES racing game with full scaling game engine (scenery AND sprites as Road Rash or F1 on Mega Drive do).Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Yes because the Amiga, just like the MD, has the M68000 ;3Quote:
and even the Amiga could handle plenty of sprite scaling effects
But Road Rash on Amiga doesn't have scaling unlike the Mega Drive version -> https://youtu.be/oZqJ5oGUE9Y ;3
Dunno about that. Good question. Well, there's the Mega Drive port of Virtua Racing which is probably the most advanced 3D game on the main 4th gen platforms (Amiga/PCE/MD/SNES) but that one cheated, just like many SNES games do though. But otherwise ye, I would be interested about that topic: "best and most advanced 4th gen 3D games".Quote:
and did polygons better than the MD
lolQuote:
I brought it from my import shop, for the cover alone lol
Understandable though :p
But what about the game? I see it's a strategy game, is it any good?
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
But these effects in Mr Nutz, now that's cool-looking mode 7 effects! Still prefer MD's Batman & Robin though :3
Since when 10 fps is considered playable?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Drive Bowlsey
What are the average FPS for PAL and NTSC with Road Rash, anyway?
It always seemed fairly playable, but running an emulator that allows a fairly absurd amount of overclocking does allow the experience to be a lot smoother.
Loved Road Rash as a kid. :)
Yeah, the games are just so much better this way! My point is that you could get the same smoothness on the stock Genesis if developers used fake sprite scaling instead of the real one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flygon
Which emulator? RR2-3 progressively lost responsiveness when I tried that in Regen.
VR Troops is a game that goes off the radar, due in large part to awful gameplay.
https://j.gifs.com/9QoWP8.gif
But if someone told me it was a 32X game i'd believe :)
Great pick!
One more challenger for the SNES, Ganbare Goemon 2.
This game has probably the second best colour usage in the whole damn console (after Demon's Crest).
Also has by far some of the best mode-7 usage (GG 3 is even better in that regard, but the rest of the game is less good looking).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob648xBCMEw
That's being rather silly and like me asking you to show me a MD that looks like F-Zero and runs at 60 fps, almost knowing their isn't one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yohko16
I believe I've made that point before :)Quote:
Yes because the Amiga, just like the MD, has the M68000
Well that's using a extra DSP. But most 3D polygons looked better on the Amiga for the partQuote:
Well, there's the Mega Drive port of Virtua Racing which is probably the most advanced 3D game on the main 4th gen platforms
Not really as its more or less unplayableQuote:
I see it's a strategy game, is it any good?
Never played Mr Nuts tbh. But I liked the Mode 7 use in Stage 2 to Contra and thought that stage boss was amazing, when the game 1st came out. The most impressive use of Mode 7 I saw was in Super Aleste on area 7 boss (5m33)Quote:
But these effects in Mr Nutz, now that's cool-looking mode 7 effects! Still prefer MD's Batman & Robin though
https://youtu.be/eIFkFQjTAg0?t=5m33s
The plane in stage 1 and the boss in stage 2 of Contra 3 are pretty good uses of Mode-7.
The space station in Super Aleste has a super cool entrance but after that it's the bog standard rotate and scale around in a really dumb way.
I suppose it does deserve a mention for that entrance alone.
This!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
I had forgotten about this game; best SNES platformer IMO. And surely one of the most beautiful games of that gen.
A lot of background variation, excellent depth perception, nice full screen effects, shadows, transparencies, etc. It puts to good use a lot of things that would be impossible or super hard to pull off on the MD or PCE.
Demon's Crest has more arcade-looking graphics, high-contrast (which is pretty rare on the SNES) and I'd say the foreground tiles are better drawn, with more details and better volume. However, as a whole, I think Ganbare Goemon 2 looks better and also does a better job of highlighting the hardware strengths.
Anyway, here a proper review of GG2 with real hardware footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5-6WG3np54
Lack of background in the giant worm boss in Super Turrican 2 makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Before the showdown the giant worm swallows the protagonist and drags him underground where he is drilling its way through the ground (that's why the shows the rocks passing by).
Using mode-7 to rotate/resize a background that looks like a sprite while using the sprites to compose a room is a trick used in many games (like Sky Blazer).
The most famous example is probably the Ridley escape sequence at the beginning of Super Metroid.
Though my favorite use in a boss remains the the boss in the first stage of ActRaiser 2 due to the pretty pixel art (at 3:34):
https://youtu.be/vEcgF1rO_QA?t=3m34s
Yeah, Goemon 2 colour usage is fantastic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
I do think Goemon 4 looks even better though.
It's art direction but I'm partial to the Ecco games, they incorporated real fish and sea creatures. They simulate the ocean ecosystem. This alone puts the series on a different level from most graphics of that time.
Plus the games are colorful, nice parallax, detailed, fast, etc.
Have to say that the Gfx in Yuu Yuu Hakusho are nothing short of astonishing, with the most impressive scaling I had ever see in a MD game, and I also was impressed with the 3D polygons Gfx in Winter Challenge and Jimmy's White Snooker on the MD too
I'm sure you have a logical reason for its mouth to stay motionless the whole time and just randomly rotating ;), they could at least add some kind of bite animation...Quote:
Originally Posted by Folco
Indeed, and some games do it better than others. ActRaiser 2 is for sure one of the better examples, good pick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Folco
It does have areas with even better art but the art direction overall is inconsistent. Random CGI here and there, different styles for the characters in different places, some backgrounds with a very textured look while others are very clean. It's hard to really explain but it feels like random artists worked on random parts of the game and in the end it just got cobbled together somehow. Still a lovely looking game of course but 2 is my pick just for how consistently good it is visually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Folco
Ecco 2 in particular has some trully gorgeous areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecco
https://gamefaqs.akamaized.net/scree...6727_2_149.jpg
May want to make it clear that it's Yuu Yuu Hakusho Makyou Toitsusen (there's also Yuu Yuu Hakusho Gaiden on MD which is completely unrelated, and the SNES has a whole bunch of Yuu Yuu Hakusho games too).Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
And yeah, I shamelessly stole that effect for Miniplanets.
The one made by Treasue and with sprites that look like that are straight from Guardian Heroes on the Saturn. I never bought the game, but was impressed when my import shop had a copy and one saw the game runningQuote:
Originally Posted by Sik
No Second Prize for Amiga is really impressive considering the framerate:Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmcS-Br95r4
I've only talked about your point on the black background ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Of course the giant worm pixelization and lack of animation (beside the rotation) is detrimental to the overall scene.
Though compared the Spider boss on the web, there is the presence of the animated tongue which is a nice trick (obviously composed by multiple sprites but those are placed and swapped on the fly depending on the position of the worm and tongue rotation).
MAMEQuote:
Originally Posted by Alianger
The one I tried, what, 10 years ago, was Megasys, or something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alianger
Problem is, of course, the sound was dodgy, and somehow the whole thing lost AV sync. :?
Originally it was meant to be more of a wipeout style game but with loops and other crazyness. Unfortunately the publisher decided to impart (misguided) marketing wisdom, what a shame...Quote:
Originally Posted by Folco
Now for the PCE, I don't think there's anything better looking on the machine then the boss stages in Legend of Xanadu. Checkout particularly after 1:10, stunning...
Nearly every boss stage looks this good, some look even better, but they really have to be seen in motion to be appreciated (I couldn't find any better videos).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55sI0sDRBRk
I wish the whole game was just these sidescrolling sections. The top down part is... pretty bad, even disregarding any language barrier issues.
LoX 2 has much better looking overhead stages but a more subdued palette and just side-scrolling boss fights rather than stages. It went the wrong way.
It's kinda sad that the limited palettes were holding it back. It could have looked totally amazing on the Saturn. Stupid Sega never released a double pack with improved colors. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
I have a soft spot for ToeJam & Earl in Panic on Funkotron, especially the underwater (7:00) and cave (15:50) sections because they have some nice touches:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReXnXTyx3kc
The underwater scene combines slight use of line scrolling with dynamic tiles in order to look more organic.
The cave scene has lighting reflection using palette cycling but the background and foreground reflections cycle alternately, a very small but nice touch; the flames are actually dynamic tiles so there's no flickering.
Also, have to say that Pulseman and High Seas Havoc features some of the best background graphics I have seen in any 16-bit game
YouTube recommended an Earthworm Jim 2 TAS after that video, and can we agree the first level looks great despite the palette limits?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVAl6bsJiJY
When you limit yourself to just a few hues it's much easier to get something good out of a limited palette.
Also holy shit the last level (20:03). Gonna post something in the effects thread because it's quite clever :v (spoiler: it's cheap as far as programming goes)
Yes and high contrast foregrounds with a lot of black is a good trick for striking visuals used a lot on the NES as well (Batman games for example).
You're right, that's as clever as it gets!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sik
There is a trick you can perform at the start of a game to access any one of the boss stages or play them all in a row.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
LoX II has a similar debug mode.
Well don't keep it to yourself ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Tiger
This game what the fuck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqj72IXs24c
I know that a lot of that is basically the Neo Geo approach (throw memory at the problem) but damn. Remember this is a PCE CD game 0.0
EDIT: OK looked up the amount of added RAM for each of the PCE CD versions
Original: 64KB RAM
Super: 256KB RAM
Arcade: 2MB + 256KB RAM
This game falls in the latter category, so no surprise about the approach. Still.
Sapphire for me is a great example of just how much of the Neo Geo power comes from monster sized carts. Given similar amounts of data (simultaneously accessible) the distance is much shorter between the 4th gen machines.
Shame about the horrid sound effects, with all that space available the game could have easily gone double PCM sfx. How is it that Spriggan (a 64KB game) has much better sound effects?
Yeah, the shooting sound effect in particular kills it (could care less if it was only the explosions, at least explosions are meant to be noisy, and in the case of shmups also low-key since they're so common). Not exactly the best use of the wavetable hardware (don't even get into PCM there, there's still a lot of room to improve without it).
Though note that the PC Engine's color count actually helps here, not just memory. That title screen background feels like it belongs more on a 5th gen console. I had to take a look again to make sure it was PCE CD and not PC-FX.
Since I mentioned, might as well post it, the best looking 64KB PCE-CD game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb5q0mXmIo4
Lovely looking game considering the limitations.
Also, my vote for overall best looking PC Engine game (LoX only looks good in the boss stages):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_m7fXPvRrk
LOOK AT IT.
Especially if you don't have the SNES' sprite-related limitations. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
Yeah, ironically the system with the most advanced graphics chip would have the hardest time.
Here's my LoXII guide:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamahl
http://superpcenginegrafx.net/misc/l...rough_2011.txt
Debug Mode gives you the most options.
This is the LoX cheat code as listed on GameFAQs:
"At the main menu, select the second option (New Game). Then, at the sphere selection screen, hold Select and press Run. Keep both buttons held until the game starts. If done right, you'll see a message and hear a chime. Now, go to the right of the pier and you'll see a bunch of signboards that aren't there in a normal game. Each one of them lets view movies or select levels."
-The sings for the boss stages are mostly in a row. I think that it's either first or last of them that plays them all back-to-back.