I can appreciate the dithering effects, but I definitely prefer s-video or rgb over composite.
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I can appreciate the dithering effects, but I definitely prefer s-video or rgb over composite.
Well, when you look at old pictures of Sega developers' offices from Japan, they often have RGB monitors on their desks next to the computers. And the XMD was a thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blades
The originals mega drive models sucks in composite output..
also you got alot of other problems on the pack.. like jail bars, rainbow branding, weak colors, one of worst image quality on retro games consoles...
Some game are of course dither oriented (developed in USA) but the majority of games will take advantage playing it over RGB.
So.. someone recommend composite output to be "the right way to go" is hard to me accept
But if you really want play it on composite run for 32x to have at least some quality playing it.
And next to those monitors they had Sony Trinitrons hooked up through...composite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryson
Obviously artists won’t draw in composite, but composite was the reality they were developing for.
Here is my opinion. Prior to Sonic, Altered Beast was the pack-in game that came with the console. I do not notice any dithering or transparency effects being used- rather it was meant to showcase the power of a home console having the ability to play arcade games.I think transparency effects such as in Sega’s newer showcase packin Sonic serves a different purpose. They not only showed the power of the console in terms of speed but was meant with such effects to be a way to have the Sega look it’s best on not just high quality monitors but common home TV sets. Dithering is a technique to blend and create new colors that not just occurs on composite, but when you are a certain viewing distance from the said dither. The impressionist movement relys on this optical trick, and paintings are not composite or rgb lol. We had vhs and most of the time rf was used, and rca if you were tech savvy enough to know the difference. The issues we have today with rf and rca were not as prominent on crt’s and console with new capacitors. I do remember sometimes having to wiggle the rf cable or getting interference on cheap TVs.
Everyone playing Sega using emulators are typically a foot away from their led screens and see the pixels in much more detail than say the max distance a controller cable allows. When I use extension cables effectively doubling the distance from my plasma it tends to allow the colors to blend due to the simple fact I am further from the screen despite it being rgb.
Fourth generation consoles varied in price. If you could afford a neo geo you probably also could afford a stellar television. Snes was more expensive than the Genesis, and it makes sense to me that they would consciously make the Sega to work on a wide range of budget TVs. I may have exaggerated this point but prior to Sega I had a nes. I didn’t at such a young age have the choice between snes or genesis, but I presume my parents thought it was cooler and different compared to just another s”nes” with the same games with more colors. Who knows. I think they made the better choice.
I’m completely speculating on the whole thing. But growing up rf, and as a teenage using composite, now as an adult I get rgb and stereo on my near lifelong console.. I get to play all my old games with new life to them! One day when I get the room I’ll get a professional monitor and maybe switch to composite for Sonics sake. But for me there’s nothing game breaking either way. I may prefer rgb today, but in the grand scheme of things the total hours combined 90% of my gaming has been done on composite.
If you need to play your games a foot away from the tv, use composite. If you have the luxury of sitting 6+ feet away from the screen, rgb your heart out.
P.s. I dislike s-video. Give me detailed vibrant colors, or give me blending and transparencies. S-video on Sega is for the lazy and/or the cheap.
Altered Beast uses dithering. Turn on the game 1st stage see the checkerboards for clouds which would be smooth gradients over composite. To me that is ugly as hell knowing it doesn't have to look that way and clearly "wasn't intended to look that way" for the home consumer.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironnick23
Every Genesis games uses dithering.
I am pro choice just wanted to make that clear. If I am coming off as a hater.
Actually.
Just use retropie and gdapt shader.
Tweak some settings and Picture looks like or better than original RGB
But! Things that should be dithered, they are. Things that shouldn't - aren't.
All games look way better than on my md1 through rgb.
Comix Zone, Final Fight CD, Ristar alone looked way better than before.
Why you want to to play any system with its worst output is beyond me, but its your choice and it doesn't matter wherever you play with RCA leads or in Scart the lack of Transparent effects show up in MS and Saturn games.Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboyscowboys
The only time I even look to use my RCA leads is if I want to play some FMV games like Prize Fighter or Dracula Unleased becase Scart shows the grain up too much.
I totally missed that! I guess you are right. You mean pro choice as in the best setting is at the players discretion?Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboyscowboys
I’m a purist in the sense that I play on original hardware. The colors are more vibrate on rgb, no? How could one achieve the blending on composite whilst using rgb? It was suggested to turn sharpness all the way down but I already have and still have a sharp picture.
Another “artifact” or hardware fault if I may call it that is the ringing around things that give letters almost a drop shadow like effect. Rgb allows me to avoid rainbow banding and a bypass removed the jailbars. To remove ringing it’s suggested to use a low-pass filter.
I do not wish to come across as being an annoying perfectionist, as I didn’t even learn of any of this regarding my console until maybe last year . Had I seen op’s video then, I may have not gone through the trouble of going rgb. Would be nice to have a tutorial written up to remove jailbars on composite
A modern s-video mod looks pretty close to rgb these days. It’s difficilt to tell them apart on my crt because they both look so good. There is an extremely minor change in some of the colors, but I believe it is a very acceptable alternative to spending money on expensive scalers, converters, and cables.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironnick23
Very true, the S-Video output of the Dreamcast was utterly brilliant and not far off RGBQuote:
Originally Posted by beigemore
Ok but for different purposes too, dither can be used in different aspects..Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboyscowboys
its common on pixel art uses dither to add details and smother the transition between shades
https://i.imgur.com/mPFCa9m.gif
Once again there's that argument that ordered dithering is made for composite blending, no matter what.
Ordered dithering was always present, as a gradiant, as a palette space saving, as a style, or as any combination of the previous 3 cases.
It exists in arcades or game computers (particulary the japanese ones), despite monitors being RGB only or systems being able to display hundreds or even thousands of colors simultaneously. Arcade Altered Beast also uses dithering in the sky you know.
Distance to screen and perception in motion also have a big role in overall felt image quality.
Ordered dithering over composite produces very bad rainbowing (even worse in motion), that can only be resolved by using much high quality encoders and very fine tuning.
S-Video is great upgrade and on sega consoles it can give results ranging from great (MD model-1 mod) to excellent (MD model-2 mod, Saturn, Dreamcast). Some video monitors such as the JVCs display some marvelous images with S-Video. It is a perfectly valid middle ground for some regions where RGB input is sparce.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironnick23
My biased opinion on s-video comes from when I svideo modded my Model 1 originally and discovered the wonder of jailbars. I never gave it a second chance, though it did perceptibly seem more washed out than rgb.
This thread is making me want a new old television terribly
Wait til you all find about woodcut dithering used for pressed artwork back in the 1800s and early 1900s. :D