Doom on the Saturn

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Originally Posted by Silanda

Looks sharper (whether that's an improvement or not is a matter of personal taste), runs considerably worse, only has front facing sprites for the enemies.

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Some messages before I asked if this was a factor for the game to run better than Doom for the Sega Saturn or not, or just plain coding differences. I suppose if they discarded the full animation sprites for the enemies in Hexen for the Sega Saturn (the PlayStation version is also that way) was for a reason. I wonder how the game would run if they are restored. In fact, the game behaviour is still thinking the animations are there, since some enemies can still be found dormant like in the original game because of their positioning not looking at you, even if they visually seem like they are. This was corrected in the 32X and SNES versions of Doom so the enemies are always looking at you, and therefore they always detect you on sight, no matter how they were positioned in the original game.

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Originally Posted by Wesker

Some messages before I asked if this was a factor for the game to run better than Doom for the Sega Saturn or not, or just plain coding differences. I suppose if they discarded the full animation sprites for the enemies in Hexen for the Sega Saturn (the PlayStation version is also that way) was for a reason. I wonder how the game would run if they are restored. In fact, the game behaviour is still thinking the animations are there, since some enemies can still be found dormant like in the original game because of their positioning not looking at you, even if they visually seem like they are. This was corrected in the 32X and SNES versions of Doom so the enemies are always looking at you, and therefore they always detect you on sight, no matter how they were positioned in the original game.

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I'm not really qualified to say, but assuming no other limitations I wouldn't have thought there would be much performance impact if all the sprites were there. I doubt that the code to determine which sprite to display would be very taxing. I suspect RAM might be a problem though, as running out of memory is a plausible explanation for why they were cut in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Silanda

I'm not really qualified to say, but assuming no other limitations I wouldn't have thought there would be much performance impact if all the sprites were there. I doubt that the code to determine which sprite to display would be very taxing. I suspect RAM might be a problem though, as running out of memory is a plausible explanation for why they were cut in the first place.

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Does the Saturn Doom port use either of the RAM expansions?

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Originally Posted by StuOhQ

Does the Saturn Doom port use either of the RAM expansions?

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No. I think the only Saturn game released outside of Japan with RAM cart support was Marvel Super Heroes.

Using the RAM cart may not make things easier since accessing the cart is pretty slow. Loading animation frames in real-time would make things much slower, it's why Marvel Super Heroes was damn near unplayable with the RAM cart. You need to micromanage the shit out of it to keep the framerate up.

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Originally Posted by Silanda

I'm not really qualified to say, but assuming no other limitations I wouldn't have thought there would be much performance impact if all the sprites were there. I doubt that the code to determine which sprite to display would be very taxing. I suspect RAM might be a problem though, as running out of memory is a plausible explanation for why they were cut in the first place.

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Yeah. Another downgraded aspect of Hexen for both the Sega Saturn and PlayStation is simplified geometry level, similar to what happened to Doom for the Jaguar and all versions based on it. Hexen for the Nintendo 64, on the other hand, features the same geometry of the original PC version. But I don't find that limitation so jarring as having all the enemies with only the front facing sprites. Start the first level and you'll see all the enemies apparently looking at you but they aren't, since they are still behaving like the PC version (that is, their placement is actually facing other direction). Odd to say the least.

I also did some tests with the link cable multiplayer feature of the Sega Saturn version, which was sadly left unfinished, and it's very weird to see the other player moving with only the front facing sprites. That is, until the multiplayer game flow eventually breaks, which unfortunately doesn't take much time.

So saturn doom was crippled purposely because John didnt want it to look better than his precious PC version.

cunt.

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Originally Posted by Moirai

So saturn doom was crippled purposely because John didnt want it to look better than his precious PC version.

cunt.

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No, it was crippled because the guy they hired to do it couldn't get the job done the way they wanted.

John didn't like the texture warping.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

John didn't like the texture warping.

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John didn't allow texture warping in this particular console port.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

John didn't allow texture warping in this particular console port.

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He didn't allow it in any port that he had input into. Development of the Playstation version's engine was restarted for this very reason.

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Originally Posted by Silanda

He didn't allow it in any port that he had input into. Development of the Playstation version's engine was restarted for this very reason.

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It was allowed in Quake for Saturn and Quake II for Playstation. I guess he was no longer meddling in ports by then.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

It was allowed in Quake for Saturn and Quake II for Playstation. I guess he was no longer meddling in ports by then.

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For Quake it was probably the choice of allow it and take the money or lose out. Perspective correction on that hardware and a more advanced engine was never really going to be a possibility. Another factor might have been Todd Hollenshead joining as CEO of id in '96. AFAIK he wasn't credited for the Saturn version of Doom, but he was in later games.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

It was allowed in Quake for Saturn and Quake II for Playstation. I guess he was no longer meddling in ports by then.

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The difference is that Quake had an order of magnitude more complex 3D geometry than Doom. Any warping was hidden by the numerous polygons, that were subdivided into even more quads to combat this very issue by Lobotomy.

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Originally Posted by Blades

The difference is that Quake had an order of magnitude more complex 3D geometry than Doom. Any warping was hidden by the numerous polygons, that were subdivided into even more quads to combat this very issue by Lobotomy.

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Saturn Exhumed or Alien Trilogy never has as much warping as the PS versions (You see way more in Exhumed). In fact, I saw far more polygon warping in Metal Head on the 32X than in any Saturn FPS TBH. It just seemed John made too much of an issue over a problem that wasn't so apprant in Saturn FPS games.

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Originally Posted by Blades

The difference is that Quake had an order of magnitude more complex 3D geometry than Doom. Any warping was hidden by the numerous polygons, that were subdivided into even more quads to combat this very issue by Lobotomy.

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Again, people are speculating what it might have looked like. If that 60fps engine was rebalanced to use more quads and run at 30fps it might have looked much better. We'll never know what we're really talking about though unless it ond day gets leaked.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

Again, people are speculating what it might have looked like. If that 60fps engine was rebalanced to use more quads and run at 30fps it might have looked much better. We'll never know what we're really talking about though unless it ond day gets leaked.

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Who knows about the 60 fps, maybe it was looking at the SKY. Really though, if you look at Exhumed or even Alien. though games run great and used the mixture of polygons and sprites and had little warping issues. That looked the way Doom should have gone.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

It was allowed in Quake for Saturn and Quake II for Playstation. I guess he was no longer meddling in ports by then.

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It's worth noting that both of those games were amongst the most impressive 3d titles on each system.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Saturn Exhumed or Alien Trilogy never has as much warping as the PS versions (You see way more in Exhumed). In fact, I saw far more polygon warping in Metal Head on the 32X than in any Saturn FPS TBH. It just seemed John made too much of an issue over a problem that wasn't so apprant in Saturn FPS games.

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Exhumed and anything on 32X wasn't drawing anything in hardware, so the warping or lack thereof was completely dependent on the engine the developers coded. Doom 32X didn't have any warping.

Trekkies posted an example of what the Doom engine would look like without perspective corrected polygons a few pages back and it looked awful.

Given the circumstances, John was right!

Exhumed does do hardware drawing and has its share of distortions, from what I remember.

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Originally Posted by Blades

Trekkies posted an example of what the Doom engine would look like without perspective corrected polygons a few pages back and it looked awful.

Given the circumstances, John was right!

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Lol, I just watched that clip and it doesn't look bad at all for a 32-bit 3D game and isn't as jittery or distorted as most Playstation games.

Check out this awful looking game which is even worse. If most scenes are too dark, take a look at 2:05:55 and 2:27:55


https://youtu.be/RGRrkczdEVg

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Originally Posted by zyrobs

Exhumed does do hardware drawing and has its share of distortions, from what I remember.

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Whoops, you’re right, I confused Exhumed with Hexen. Of course Powerslave used hardware.

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Check out this awful looking game which is even worse.

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That is worse.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

Lol, I just watched that clip and it doesn't look bad at all for a 32-bit 3D game and isn't as jittery or distorted as most Playstation games.

Check out this awful looking game which is even worse. If most scenes are too dark, take a look at 2:05:55 and 2:27:55


https://youtu.be/RGRrkczdEVg

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Go look at it again when he actually turns the Polygon rendering on at the 6:30 mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_ytaHm7ABk

The door goes nuts when he gets close to it. If Carmack was given something that looked like that then I wouldn't blame him for axing it. You guys need to stop demonizing Carmack over this. He probably didn't care with Quake because Quake is doing heavy subdividing to keep the texture warping down to a minimum, and considering the Hardware Carmack and others probably figured that's as good as they can get.

Now put yourself in Carmacks shoes for Doom on the Saturn. You've made this great FPS engine that runs decently on a 33MHz 486. Not only that you've successfully ported it to the PS1, the Jaguar, and even the 32X that uses the same dual SH-2 CPU set up as the Saturn. All of which still used software renderer to do the bulk of the work and still ran at good playable speeds. Now you get this demo of Saturn Doom that's running at high speed, but it's using polygons and has texture warping all over the place. Considering that you know the software renderer can run on a dual SH-2 set up that's clocked 5MHz slower than the one in the Saturn what are you going to do? You're going to tell the guy to go back and use the software render because you know it can can run at a playable speed on the Saturn's CPUs and that it will look better as it will have no texture warping.

The software renderer isn't the problem with Saturn Doom. The Saturn should be able to handle that no problem considering the 32X handles it just fine. The issue is that instead of drawing the lines in a way that's optimal for the Saturn, it instead does it in a very suboptimal way. They're drawn as VDP1 single pixel high sprites with a ton of user clipping commands. That slows things down to a crawl and VDP1 becomes the bottleneck, not the CPUs:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...27/unknown.png

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Originally Posted by Blades

Exhumed and anything on 32X wasn't drawing anything in hardware, so the warping or lack thereof was completely dependent on the engine the developers coded. Doom 32X didn't have any warping.

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Exhumed was making use of the VDP1 and there is quite a bit of warping in the PS1 version. One can see slight polygon folding in Alien Trilogy on the Saturn ,but it's tiny and nothing like as bad as the PS version. Tbh I saw more polygon folding on the pitch in Fifa 96 on the Saturn, than in any FPS on the Saturn.

I would have rather saw Rage allowed to go the route of Exhumed on the Saturn myself.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Exhumed was making use of the VDP1 and there is quite a bit of warping in the PS1 version. One can see slight polygon folding in Alien Trilogy on the Saturn ,but it's tiny and nothing like as bad as the PS version. Tbh I saw more polygon folding on the pitch in Fifa 96 on the Saturn, than in any FPS on the Saturn.

I would have rather saw Rage allowed to go the route of Exhumed on the Saturn myself.

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Let's use some simple logic here:

1. Exhumed runs on Lobotomy's Slave Driver Engine and uses polygons. It minimizes texture warping by subdividing polygons, thus it targets 30fps but regularly dips below that.
2. Quake on Saturn runs in the same Slave Driver Engine as Exhumed.
3. id Software and Carmack approved Saturn Quake even with it's minimal texture warping.

Conclusion: Carmack would not have had an issue with Doom using polygons if it was using the same approach as Exhumed or Quake.


But we all know Carmack didn't approve Doom running using quads to draw everything due to texture warping. So that tells us the texture warping had to be far worse than what we see in any of Lobotomy's games. Since it was supposedly running at 60fps, that means it had to be using huge quads which would have pretty bad texture warping. Again look at that 3DO video when he turns on polygon rendering. Look at how the Door behaves when he gets close to it. That's probably pretty close to what Carmack was seeing in this early polygon rendered version of Saturn Doom.

Basically quit bringing up Lobotomy's games here. It's very likely that this unreleased version of Saturn Doom had no where near the level of effort put into it to reduce texture warping as those games had.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

Lol, I just watched that clip and it doesn't look bad at all for a 32-bit 3D game and isn't as jittery or distorted as most Playstation games.

Check out this awful looking game which is even worse. If most scenes are too dark, take a look at 2:05:55 and 2:27:55


https://youtu.be/RGRrkczdEVg

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And that's held up as one of the best looking PS games of all time. Wasn't it meant to push the PS 115% LOL? There was a ton of polygons folding in Ridge Racer not that any PS fan cared, because the graphics were so good. Such a shame, when maybe the Saturn could have had the best console version of Doom.

I see to remake in one of Lobotomy 1st ever interviews Ezra saying a full 3D engine was the best match for Saturn Hardware, compared to a Strip one like Doom and that's what Jim was looking to do with the Saturn port of Doom. Nice one John ...

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

I see to remake in one of Lobotomy 1st ever interviews Ezra saying a full 3D engine was the best match for Saturn Hardware, compared to a Strip one like Doom and that's what Jim was looking to do with the Saturn port of Doom. Nice one John ...

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Yet the 32X handles that strip engine just fine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9kHWnRDtEE

Blame John all you want, but he knew the dual SH-2 set up could handle Doom's software renderer, after all he got it running on that set up years prior. The CPU is not the choke point for Saturn Doom. It's how Jim stupidly tried to have VDP1 draw everything as single pixel high sprites with a shit ton of user clipping commands. That is a truly awful way to use VDP1 and it's going to slow everything down as it's inefficient.

Yeah the Saturn CPUs should have been more than up to the task, the game runs fine on a 486 with half the MIPS. I don't quite understand the comments about VDP1. Couldn't you just use it as a blitter? Or is there some bandwidth issue? Or how about rendering the entire screen into one VDP2 bitmap layer and then using VDP1 for enemy sprites and projectiles?

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Originally Posted by axel

Yeah the Saturn CPUs should have been more than up to the task, the game runs fine on a 486 with half the MIPS. I don't quite understand the comments about VDP1. Couldn't you just use it as a blitter? Or is there some bandwidth issue?

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VDP1's fillrate is quite low. Having it try to fill the entire screen with sprites typically isn't a good idea.

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Originally Posted by axel

Or how about rendering the entire screen into one VDP2 bitmap layer and then using VDP1 for enemy sprites and projectiles?

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That's pretty much exactly what Hexen on Saturn does and it runs much better because of it.

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Originally Posted by axel

Yeah the Saturn CPUs should have been more than up to the task, the game runs fine on a 486 with half the MIPS. I don't quite understand the comments about VDP1. Couldn't you just use it as a blitter? Or is there some bandwidth issue? Or how about rendering the entire screen into one VDP2 bitmap layer and then using VDP1 for enemy sprites and projectiles?

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On my mates father work PC which was a 33Mz 486 at the time . Doom run good, but in a window. On his monitor one could stretch the screen it wasn't an issue. Like I said before I don't know why Rage didn't look to make the Saturn version run in a Window . Maybe Jim and the gang were pissed off,didn't have much time for the recode or John demanded it needed to run in full screen.

FPS Saturn games that used the VDP1 to handle a mixture of sprites and Polygons , never had much issues over warping and moved at ok frame rate as the likes of Exhumed, Deadlus, Alien Trilogy showed, even crap like Congo and while they're not quite the same, warping wasn't an issue for Gundam or Gun Griffion on the Saturn .

More to this point , I can think none back in this day who didn't buy a PS or its games due to warping,most saw it and put up with it and didn't really care, just as long as the game looked good. Do fans of Alien Trilogy Say that Saturn version looks the best due too less warping

Shame really both the PS and Saturn versions of Doom could have been able to be so much better

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

On my mates father work PC which was a 33Mz 486 at the time . Doom run good, but in a window. On his monitor one could stretch the screen it wasn't an issue. Like I said before I don't know why Rage didn't look to make the Saturn version run in a Window . Maybe Jim and the gang were pissed off,didn't have much time for the recode or John demanded it needed to run in full screen.

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Saturn should have been able to handle Doom's software renderer. Afterall the Jaguar and 32X handled it fine. Jaguar was even full screen, though at 20fps. Considering the Saturn is more powerful than the Jagaur it should have been able to get similar or better results. Here's a video of Rebecca Heineman discussing how she ported Doom to the 3DO. Which before you bring up that ports performance issues, the video makes it clear it wasn't her fault, she did the best she could with what she was given.

That said, she mentions that Carmack gave her the source to the Jaguar version, and she initially got that running on the 3DO at ~3fps, and then after optimizing got it to 10fps using software rendering. She then started adding in using the 3DO hardware to draw part of the scene to get better performance. The Key take away though is that she confirms that yes Jaguar Doom used software rendering:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBbIil2HPSU

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

FPS Saturn games that used the VDP1 to handle a mixture of sprites and Polygons , never had much issues over warping and moved at ok frame rate as the likes of Exhumed, Deadlus, Alien Trilogy showed, even crap like Congo

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Those all do have warping, you're just choosing to ignore it so you can stay pissed at John Carmack. Even then we've extablished that the warping in this fabled version of Doom must have been worse than those games since Carmack approved Saturn Quake running in the same engine. Hell even PS1 Doom has minor texture warping and Carmack helped work on that one.

And once again, Saturn Doom IS using VDP1 to draw walls, floors, etc as polygons. They're being drawn as 1 pixel high sprites making a series of strips that make up the image. Then there's a ton of user clip commands used to mask off parts. This is pretty much exactly what PS1 Doom does, but it's GPU has the fill rate to handle that, where as Saturn's VDP1 doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

warping wasn't an issue for Gundam or Gun Griffion on the Saturn .

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Because those games are just flat VDP2 planes with some sprites and objects drawn overtop.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Shame really both the PS and Saturn versions of Doom could have been able to be so much better

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The PS1 version runs at a pretty solid 30fps with tons of transparencies and colored lighting. I don't see it getting much better than that considering the original PC version caps at 35fps due to it being designed around 70Hz monitors.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

On my mates father work PC which was a 33Mz 486 at the time . Doom run good, but in a window. On his monitor one could stretch the screen it wasn't an issue.

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SX or DX? VLB or ISA video card? How fast was the vram? Was main ram wait states set to 0? Simply saying 33mhz 486 doesn't mean much. I had built a custom pimp'd out 33mhz 486 that ran the game just fine full screen and fast.

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Originally Posted by turboxray

SX or DX? VLB or ISA video card? How fast was the vram? Was main ram wait states set to 0? Simply saying 33mhz 486 doesn't mean much. I had built a custom pimp'd out 33mhz 486 that ran the game just fine full screen and fast.

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Christ mate, we're taking 94 here and a mates dad PC. I can't remember the exact spec's other than it was 33Mz and a 486. The only other thing I can remember about my mates Dad work PC was it played AITD fine but needed a new video card fited to play The 11th Hour.

My Uncle's PC was much better, but he didn't like Doom, but was all for Star Wars Dark Forces, which run like a dream and IMO was a far better game too

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Those all do have warping, you're just choosing to ignore it so you can stay pissed at John Carmack.

Even then we've extablished that the warping in this fabled version of Doom must have been worse than those games since Carmack approved Saturn Quake running in the same engine.

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You're also fixated on misinterpreting a single quote as an absolute, while also ignoring Carmack's admission that he was wrong... just so you can stay pissed at a guy for being right.

The logic that because "he approved" a port proves it met a minimum level of quality is silly in itself. But Doom for SNES also got greenlit based on a homebrew hack of a Starfox cart.

So it ran even worse than the final product which proved that id would license a port to absolutely anything, even when they could be certain it would look/run terrible.

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Hell even PS1 Doom has minor texture warping and Carmack helped work on that one.

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Again, you're contradicting yourself about what "must" have been the case and proving that Carmack (by his own admission) is indeed fallible.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Christ mate, we're taking 94 here and a mates dad PC. I can't remember the exact spec's other than it was 33Mz and a 486. The only other thing I can remember about my mates Dad work PC was it played AITD fine but needed a new video card fited to play The 11th Hour.

My Uncle's PC was much better, but he didn't like Doom, but was all for Star Wars Dark Forces, which run like a dream and IMO was a far better game too

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And that's my whole point; a PC is more than just its processor. And the processor type also matters; 486 'SX' chips are missing the math co-processor, while all DX chips have it. Say '486 PC' means nothing.

I built an AMD 386DX 40mhz w/VLB video card for a friend that could run the same almost full screen at a fast enough frame rate. All 486DX systems that I built had no problem running it full screen and fast. Friends with 'AST', PackerBells, etc.. ram the game for crap even on 486Dx2 50/66mhz systems.

Just putting things in context, it all.

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Originally Posted by turboxray

And that's my whole point; a PC is more than just its processor. And the processor type also matters; 486 'SX' chips are missing the math co-processor, while all DX chips have it. Say '486 PC' means nothing.

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Correct, If only John remembered that, while trying to tell the console programmers to make a console game run like it would on the PC. Btw if you must know my Uncles PC at the time ran at 75 Mhz :) and TFX Euro figher looked amazing on it

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

You're also fixated on misinterpreting a single quote as an absolute, while also ignoring Carmack's admission that he was wrong... just so you can stay pissed at a guy for being right.

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And you're doing the same thing here. You're fixated on a quote from Carmack saying "I should have allowed more experimentation" as an admission of being wrong. The reality is he's saying that because it was 20 years ago and he probably barely remembers it and doesn't want to start a pissing match over something irrelevant.

None of us have seen this fabled port of Doom. All we know is that supposedly it ran at 60fps and used VDP1 quads to draw everything. Knowing how the Saturn works it's not hard to figure out that it would have had bad texture warping if it was indeed hitting this benchmark. The only way you'd hit 60fps on the Saturn having it draw a complex scene like you see in an FPS like Doom would be if it was drawing very large quads. That's going to have a ton of texture warping as you can see in the 3DO Doom videos.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

The logic that because "he approved" a port proves it met a minimum level of quality is silly in itself. But Doom for SNES also got greenlit based on a homebrew hack of a Starfox cart.

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The logic isn't silly at all. It establishes a baseline for us to paint a picture of what this version of Doom was probably like. You just don't want to listen to it because you're still clinging to hope that there's this amazing version of Saturn Doom out there that would have been the best ever just to try and use it to win some 20+ year old console warrior argument from the 90s. Having a convenient boogie man to blame it on like John Carmack just makes it all the better for you guys.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

Again, you're contradicting yourself about what "must" have been the case and proving that Carmack (by his own admission) is indeed fallible.

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No I'm not, I'm establishing a baseline of what was deemed an acceptable level of texture warping by Carmack. Which means that if he shot down this Saturn port of Doom due to texture warping then the warping had to be worse than this established baseline. Meaning it had to be worse than what we see in PS1 Doom, and Saturn Exhumed/Duke 3D/Quake.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Correct, If only John remembered that, while trying to tell the console programmers to make a console game run like it would on the PC. Btw if you must know my Uncles PC at the time ran at 75 Mhz :) and TFX Euro figher looked amazing on it

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If only you would remember that John himself ported that engine to consoles 3 times already by the time this Saturn port was being done. He knew how to get it to run on those systems and how to even optimize it for the very same SH-2s in the Saturn. He had already done it before back in 1994 for the 32X.

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Originally Posted by turboxray

And that's my whole point; a PC is more than just its processor. And the processor type also matters; 486 'SX' chips are missing the math co-processor, while all DX chips have it. Say '486 PC' means nothing.

I built an AMD 386DX 40mhz w/VLB video card for a friend that could run the same almost full screen at a fast enough frame rate. All 486DX systems that I built had no problem running it full screen and fast. Friends with 'AST', PackerBells, etc.. ram the game for crap even on 486Dx2 50/66mhz systems.

Just putting things in context, it all.

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I ran DOS Doom on a variety of systems back in the day, everything from a 386 underclocked at 8 MHz (with the turbo switch) up to Pentiums with MMX. My recollection is that once you hit a 486DX2 it ran like butter full screen. The DX2s were much faster than the original 486 although on paper they don't hit higher MIPS than the Saturn. I don't remember the video card making any difference for Doom so long as it was VLB, I guess if you still had an ISA card that would be a problem.

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Originally Posted by axel

I ran DOS Doom on a variety of systems back in the day, everything from a 386 underclocked at 8 MHz (with the turbo switch) up to Pentiums with MMX. My recollection is that once you hit a 486DX2 it ran like butter full screen. The DX2s were much faster than the original 486 although on paper they don't hit higher MIPS than the Saturn. I don't remember the video card making any difference for Doom so long as it was VLB, I guess if you still had an ISA card that would be a problem.

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Hell I can run it on an IBM PS2 Model 50 with the 486SLC2 upgrade:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR9kSDMnbMk

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Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118

Hell even PS1 Doom has minor texture warping and Carmack helped work on that

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I’ve actually never seen warping in PS1 Doom.