Paprium: The Official Thread Mk 2

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11-02-2018, 03:41 PM
Stifu

Quote:

Originally Posted by axel

But leave the DLC, linking to a website etc to the PC port, no one asked for that.

Yeah. In my eyes those are not just unwanted bells and whistles, they actually make the product worse (more expensive, harder to produce, probably more likely to fail... like a flimsy tower of power). The DLC is by far the worst part to me. Funny how there was no poll about that.
11-02-2018, 03:53 PM
Sik

Quote:

Originally Posted by axel

You could put period tech in the carts, chips like the SH-2 are still available for sale. While I like the stock MD, much of what Fonzie has suggested would have been doable back in the day. Several SNES carts used extra CPUs for data decompression and carts have been used to expand audio capabilities since Pitfall II. If the SVP had caught on maybe Sega would have tried something like this.

That reminds me of a discussion I had earlier today.

One of the issues with the SVP is that, erm, Virtua Racing cost $100 when the game itself wasn't worth that price. So the discussion went around why not make the SVP a standalone add-on and games plug on top of it? (instead of the whole 32X) The problem: SVP runs directly off the game ROM, stealing cycles while the 68000 isn't touching it (hence it requires a fast ROM, which probably added to the $100 price tag). But if you want to use slower ROMs, you can't make the SVP stop the 68000, since in the usual area the Mega Drive is in control of timing, you'd need to force the 68000 into a separate area to halt it when needed, which by the way is too small so it needs bank switching to allow access to the full 4MB… which is what the 32X does. And you'd probably need to run the SVP off RAM since the ROM would be too slow for it… which again, is what the 32X does for the SH2s (which have their own 256KB of RAM). And ROM accesses are pretty slow for it (even moreso if the 68000 is running off it instead of work RAM). And all that mess is the whole source of programming issues with the 32X (well, there are other problems, but they're minor when compared to that).

The 32X is a clusterfuck to program but what led to the engineering decisions that caused most of that mess in the first place actually came from the base system itself, and a SVP add-on would also suffer from it. The only reasonable workaround would have been instead to use what the SVP already did, but forcing it to run exclusively from RAM (no ROM access) and have the 68000 spoonfeed it the data it needs. Then at least you'd be able to use the SVP with slow ROM accesses, which should have lowered the costs. And I wonder if the 32X could have benefited if it had taken the same approach too. Oh well.

Sorry for the off-topic, lol
11-02-2018, 04:07 PM
axel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sik

That reminds me of a discussion I had earlier today.

One of the issues with the SVP is that, erm, Virtua Racing cost $100 when the game itself wasn't worth that price. So the discussion went around why not make the SVP a standalone add-on and games plug on top of it? (instead of the whole 32X) The problem: SVP runs directly off the game ROM, stealing cycles while the 68000 isn't touching it (hence it requires a fast ROM, which probably added to the $100 price tag). But if you want to use slower ROMs, you can't make the SVP stop the 68000, since in the usual area the Mega Drive is in control of timing, you'd need to force the 68000 into a separate area to halt it when needed, which by the way is too small so it needs bank switching to allow access to the full 4MB… which is what the 32X does. And you'd probably need to run the SVP off RAM since the ROM would be too slow for it… which again, is what the 32X does for the SH2s (which have their own 256KB of RAM). And ROM accesses are pretty slow for it (even moreso if the 68000 is running off it instead of work RAM). And all that mess is the whole source of programming issues with the 32X (well, there are other problems, but they're minor when compared to that).

The 32X is a clusterfuck to program but what led to the engineering decisions that caused most of that mess in the first place actually came from the base system itself, and a SVP add-on would also suffer from it. The only reasonable workaround would have been instead to use what the SVP already did, but forcing it to run exclusively from RAM (no ROM access) and have the 68000 spoonfeed it the data it needs. Then at least you'd be able to use the SVP with slow ROM accesses, which should have lowered the costs. And I wonder if the 32X could have benefited if it had taken the same approach too. Oh well.

Sorry for the off-topic, lol

I don't think it's off topic at all - if getting add-ons to work is this crazy it's no wonder Fonzie hasn't had much luck. I appreciate your explanations because otherwise I'd have no idea how much work goes into a project like this.
11-02-2018, 04:12 PM
roce

Quote:

...is a clusterfuck to program but what led to the engineering decisions that caused most of that mess in the first place actually came from the base system itself... The only reasonable workaround would have been forcing it to run exclusively from RAM (no ROM access)

You just described the SNES sound chip, lol.
11-02-2018, 06:45 PM
SEGA-Jorge

So, can someone explain, was the 32x all bad? I know nothing about it technically, but u okayed the hell out of mine. I loved most the games I played on it, and they really did seem more impressive. When the 32x was properly developed for, was it a significant jump in power for the Genesis? I kinda wish there was an alternate history, where the Neptune was a thing. Would that have been able to be a success? The Genesis/Sega CD/32x combo seems like a powerhouse of a console for its time.
11-02-2018, 07:00 PM
Stifu

The 32x was too little, too late. Most games for it were rushed and probably didn't scratch the surface of what it could do. Not to mention it was the second add-on of the console, further dividing and confusing the user base. If that didn't sound bad enough, it was released at the same time as the Saturn. I'd rather have had more and/or better Genesis titles than dozens of overall mediocre 32x and CD games.
11-02-2018, 07:11 PM
steel

there's something that I feel even more, a great hype and this is getting greater than ever.
• Even with the problem Demo I Still want this game.
11-02-2018, 07:16 PM
dolphinkiller24

At this point if Luis and Groovemater didn't get news sinc last week'end it's incredible
11-02-2018, 07:17 PM
Leynos

Quote:

Originally Posted by steel

there's something that I feel even more, a great hype and this is getting greater than ever.
• Even with the problem Demo I Still want this game.

I don't buy this account or post as genuine.
11-02-2018, 08:05 PM
Zebbe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stifu

Heh, fun way of putting it. :)
But I can't really make fun of Fonzie on that point, because my own projects take forever too.

But your projects aren't funded with other people's money (and failed to meet deadlines + other stuff etc.)... right? RIGHT!?
11-02-2018, 08:13 PM
Thunderblaze16

This thread has turned to the Gete Star, it's been absorbing the site's hype for years now, with no real promises in sight.

Soon there will be no hype left and SEGA-16 will be no more...

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20180822223823
11-02-2018, 09:29 PM
sidewinderl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderblaze16

This thread has turned to the Gete Star

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqPwbsIgZHY
11-03-2018, 12:04 AM
steel

Quote:

Originally Posted by SegataS

I don't buy this account or post as genuine.

and so what...
11-03-2018, 05:27 AM
Stifu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zebbe

But your projects aren't funded with other people's money (and failed to meet deadlines + other stuff etc.)... right? RIGHT!?

Right. If I ever get done with my current game project, which is admittedly unlikely, I'd love to port it to the Genesis. I dare say I believe Paprium will be released long before that happens.
11-03-2018, 05:37 AM
IrishNinja

so the party fizzled out, huh? nothing really to show for all our invested gems?

don't worry y'all, 2019 will no doubt be the year this SOR-killer manifests & makes all of this worth it!™

swear to god, fonzie could literally post a ric flair-esque NOT DEAD YET t-shirt pic and some of y'all would be here talking about how great it's gonna be when you're playing this game - accept it, we've been hosed