I agree. I wanted to get copies of the Kickstarter, but now I'm a little relieved I didn't get on it. If they're available later I'd like to get a copy of the Game Gear and Dreamcast version if possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iced Snowman
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I agree. I wanted to get copies of the Kickstarter, but now I'm a little relieved I didn't get on it. If they're available later I'd like to get a copy of the Game Gear and Dreamcast version if possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iced Snowman
It was wise of you to hold off. I can see Fonzie continue to put out Paprium delayed messages, years from now and trying to blame ninjas, like Jodi Arias did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairlesswookiee
It's been 45 days since my 2nd shipping notice, for my Investor's copy that I ordered in 2012. Its not looking good.
Maybe Fonzie or one of his underlings looked at this thread and determined that my copy must remain under Fonzie's coffee table.
Fonzie or one of them may have said, "To hell with this Iced Snowman! He is not Watermelon worthy to receive Paprium, not now and not ever! May he rot in that Sonoran Desert for not licking the boot of Fonzie and daring to question his integrity!"
Made me Smile. Between a rock and a hard place you could spend Hours your time searching eBay and grab one by the reasonable price whatever that might be. and if and when your copy eventually turns up you have one spare to sell. but of course it also means that if HE ever gets his act together he could Flood the Market with with copies no one needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iced Snowman
ever noticed the majority of copies being sold on eBay are NEW unplayed sealed? Fonzie's recruitment drive (not for skilled programmers we know he does all that himself) to set up multiple eBay accounts to sell it inflated price. Conspiracy theory confirmed :fail:
https://i.imgur.com/V7Kdpvq.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by Iced Snowman
The eBay sold listings run from $400-$600. So that's at least 5x what I paid. Lots of bids, so lots of interest (unless fake bidders).Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano Babe
Mine is still "shipping" from Vegas. I don't know why my copy is stuck playing those Vegas Slots for so long.
Still holding hope the Kickstarter comes through...
Ladies and gentlemen, its time again to rant about never receiving my Investor's Copy of Paprium. I just went over to the Paprium Kickstarter page and saw that there are some unhappy campers in the comments section, to no surprise. No update from WM circus since April. I've been sending more frequent questions about my purchase to the MGF site. I just might start sending them messages weekly, then daily, then maybe twice a day. MGF is the most unprofessional "company" that I've ever ordered from.
On a side note, if memory serves me correctly, someone posted awhile ago that you can beat Paprium by just jump kicking. Is this in fact the case?
Being that I have never played the game, this would be a terrible letdown if it ever arrives.
Well technically I suppose you could, it is useful to get you out of an hole or difficult patch but it would be boring to play exploiting that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iced Snowman
Honestly Iced Snowman I really enjoyed the game and have put in plenty of hours to get all the endings, secret screens, alternative routes etc.
Is it a perfect game ? No, is it as good as SOR 2 ? No but it is still a very, very good game and well worth owning and playing.
I don't understand why so many people are selling their sealed investor edition, is that because of the high prices they go for? I mean I don't see any peeps selling their Tanglewood collector editions..let alone that many.
I would suspect if you waited that long for your investor edition, you would at least keep it.
I "invested" in many more copies than I needed just to resell them. I put them on eBay for $50, but they all went for $350-450 each. So I got quite a good return on my "investment", which is the point of such things, isn't it?
Tanglewood is a good game! A good game that people didn't wait extra years for only to realize they could sell it for hundreds; another question would be about people buying that... Have to admit packaging a thong is strongQuote:
Originally Posted by snixel
Paprium is a good game too. I understand the frustation of the release but the quality of the game itself is really good imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goati
And Tanglewood also included a beanie in their collector edition which I would probably never wear. The thong is a humoristic wink and actually fits the theme of the game.
@zebbe explanation probably makes most sense.
I respectfully disagree but yeah, being able to sell a copy for 300+ will do that
I backed the latest Kickstarter as I would like to play the game along with owning Pier Solar as well so fingers crossed..... I did it knowing the reputation of the company and what everyone has been saying so if the stuff never gets delivered than it's shitty but I backed knowing it could be a possibility. It wouldn't be the first Kickstarter that I'm still waiting for rewards sadly.
I would agree with you that I don't like buying games with the intention of flipping them to make money, but I also realize that someone that bought the game with that intention was so frustrated by having to deal with delays, broken promises, etc. that they don't want to touch the game anymore so why not make money off of selling it? And to be honest, the people paying these prices are probably interested in playing the game and would rather pay the inflated price for a guaranteed copy instead of playing the waiting game to get a copy from the devs.Quote:
Originally Posted by snixel
why didn't you sell them at a fixed cost ? Isn't this pure speculation and what has been artificially driving up retrogaming prices for years now? Aren't those iniatives what are making the retrogaming scene a thing for privileged people instead of a popular hobby like it was not that long ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebbe
At the risk of sounding like a jerk...an item only has the monetary value someone gives it. There are some 600 games for the Sega Genesis and at this point tens of thousands for other consoles. I take solace knowing I'll never play Paprium or pay an extraordinary amount for this overhyped game. Anyone who pays hundreds for this game is a stone-cold dope. The amount that individuals pay for video games is absolutely ridiculous these days and we should all feel ashamed that someone thinks a video game is worth more than $50 even with inflation.
The people who still haven't gotten this game should file a class action lawsuit for being ripped off at this point.
It was a big risk I took considering the many years of delay and all the comments like "lol Fonz is smoking crack with your cash, good luck seeing that money again or the game in your hands". I only asked for what I initially paid for the game and if others who decided to be safe with their cash during all those years lated wanted to pay more for the game, it's completely fine by me. I never even got paid for my work at Watermelon so making a return from all that free work by doing this was a good solution to me. There was never a limit set on those investor editions anyway, so this wasn't scalping and neither did anyone miss out on the game for my "investment". In fact, I even made it more accessible.Quote:
Originally Posted by chilled
Yeah, would be so nice to score a PAL copy of Lakers vs Celtics or WCS2 for only 50 bucks :DQuote:
The amount that individuals pay for video games is absolutely ridiculous these days and we should all feel ashamed that someone thinks a video game is worth more than $50 even with inflation.
I don't understand this logic. Go on eBay almost everything is being sold at auction... why should videogames be the one item that has to be sold at fixed cost? Why shouldn't the seller try to make as much money as possible?Quote:
Originally Posted by chilled
Retrogaming on original hardware has always been a "privileged" hobby, if you're broke you can run MAME on your laptop. Maybe you can even run Paprium that way, or so a Little Man told me...
If they wanna pay through the nose for a terrible game like Paprium then its their loss man. a fool and his money etc.
I rarely list anything at auction and only when I can't narrow down a fair price.Quote:
Originally Posted by axel
I search actual sold prices and factor in completeness, condition, etc. I then check the lowest prices of active non-auction listings to see if something is available for less.
I then list items as Buy it Now only for less than available and actual sold price average.
You can say that anyone should do anything they can get away with. But if you have to ask why wouldn't someone try to get the most they can, you wouldn't understand the answer.
Additionally, manipulating the homebrew market and gouging for profit margins exponentially greater than what developers and publishers make is killing the honebrew scene.
It's what led to kind of nonsense that went on at nintendoage. It discourages quality game development and encourages the publishing of terrible low effort software that can barely be described as games.
I guess we can agree to disagree, because I don't see it as "getting away with" anything. I thought the whole point of selling is to make as much money as possible. If you choose to set a price yourself that's fine too because it's your choice. I don't care what you do with your games. Likewise if others choose to spend hundreds or thousands on common games they'll never play because they're enamored with boxes and serial numbers, so what? It's their money not mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Tiger
What's killing the homebrew scene is guys like Fonzie who take people's money, lie repeatedly for years and then finally deliver a game that infringes on other people's work and doesn't even work on some hardware revisions. Why would anyone burned by Fonzie want to donate to another Kickstarter after that?
Even if Fonzie was a legitimate businessman, which he's proven time and again he is not, does it make sense to sell these games for $50-70 when the market value is $400 or more? No wonder he is always crying about not making any money. All of the profit is being made by the people reselling the games later. How can anyone keep making games when they don't make a profit? They can't.
uh no: CRT used to be free + 30$ genesis with pad + 30$ for 5-10 nice games not that long ago VS 600$ a laptop not counting the pirated roms and is still 10 times cheaper to retrogame on real hardware. or was, before speculation got widespread.Quote:
Originally Posted by axel
Well if you're counting the CRT as being free because someone was throwing it out, why stop there? Go dumpster dive an older PC, install Linux, you should be good to go. You can even enjoy a free lunch in the process! Win-win.Quote:
Originally Posted by chilled
This thread is a constant well of disappointment. I really hope people get their games/product. Paprium is easily the most divisive, complex retro game release in my experience. It's just marred with so much negativity, confusion, etc. For the people that received their copies, it's kinda a bummer, there's a weird sort of survivor's guilt, our other community members that invested and were around for just as long got nothing.
I'll never fund anything Fonzie is associated with again. I appreciate the work and effort that the members of WM put into the game, but Fonzie's handling of the development, fulfilment, etc. has been a disaster. It's a huge disservice to everyone that worked on the game. We should be talking about the game, the art, the music, the scope, what worked, what didn't, instead, it's just the negativity and craziness surrounding the dev and completion of the game.
Truly the most disappointing end to this story.
SEGA-Jorge
Repped. I can't believe people have continued to give Fonzie money. But this is a trend I've noticed with retrogaming, people tend to be far more forgiving when it comes to someone making games or accessories for older systems than they would be toward any other type of business. I've watched the same thing happen over and over, one guy will have an idea and he comes in talking about how he's got a legit company run by professionals, then as soon as things don't go as planned he reverts back to "I'm just a hobbyist, cut me some slack". I don't want to derail the thread but those of you who frequent the same forums I do can probably think of at least a dozen similar examples.Quote:
Originally Posted by SEGA-Jorge
Fonzie's had my money since 2012. I still got nothing. Tell me, out of those dozen, who comes as close as Fonzie for being a terrible businessman?Quote:
Originally Posted by axel
Have you met Tommy Tallarico?Quote:
Originally Posted by Iced Snowman
No way I would of pre-ordered an Intellivision Amico for $249+Quote:
Originally Posted by axel
First he said it would retail for $149 and the pre-order deposits for a founder's edition were $100, with the promise they would be refundable at any time. Then there were four rounds of crowdfunding, at least one of which promised a 10x return by year's end (in 2020) despite the fact they had no product to sell. Then you could order "physical products", which were just crappy boxes for games that didn't exist yet, at either $80 for four boxes for $150 for eight boxes. The boxes included RFID cards with codes to redeem games, except since they never produced a console or servers there was no way to use them at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iced Snowman
Maybe you could chalk it up to bad management, except that every person who voiced even the mildest criticisms of these business practices was banned from the Amico discussion threads on AtariAge, Reddit, Facebook etc. They knew full well what they were doing but wanted to string investors along as long as possible.
One thing I've noticed in the retrogaming community is that there are a lot of guys who are very smart in some areas, like coding for example, who are utterly clueless when it comes to basic finance and economics. I was excited for the Amico at first because I liked the idea of a console focused on 2D retrogaming (this was before the Evercade was out) but the huge red flag for me was when I saw how they were funding this thing. If you have a product that's going to sell in the millions you should be able to line up a few big investors, not beg for chump change on forums. Then when I saw the censorship campaign it confirmed my suspicions that this wasn't an honest company.
A few years ago, it was almost exactly the same story with the Retro VGS/Coleco Chameleon. A few years from now it will be something else, because people are suckers.
That was quite the tale of the tape. I wasn't fully aware of this whole con job.
I remember reading about the Coleco fiasco. They are raw deals, indeed.
That was just the tip of the iceberg. If I wrote out every lie, every deception that happened it would fill a book. Somebody needs to do a documentary because this has become the Enron of game companies. Intellivision took over $40 million in funding, delivered nothing and the company is now over $8 million in debt. Where did it all go?Quote:
Originally Posted by Iced Snowman
Fonzie is a much smaller fish, but he followed the same game plan. He hyped up Paprium with that professional looking trailer, bragged about an expansion chip from a company that didn't exist, blamed his troubles on Kickstarter, PayPal, Air France, etc. At least he finally did deliver a product (well, to some customers anyway), but he didn't do the indie scene any favors in the process. For example I remember when Demons of Asteborg went up on Kickstarter, right away there were people who were hesitant to pledge because they thought it might turn into another Paprium.
I wish people would have stopped funding him until he made good on all past obligations, but his last Kickstarter took in around $900k, so apparently for some people hope springs eternal.
JUL 06, 2022 - Intellivision CEO (Phil Adam) Says It Is "Still Working On" The Delayed Amico
July 17, 2022 - Intellivision offices empty and available to lease
Those were headlines of two articles I just read. What a trainwreck. And now I have more remorse, for those who have been had by Intellivison.
When Fonzie came out w/ that mystery game with a dolphin, i just scoffed like I never scoffed before. Not 1 penny, from me, was going towards that mess.
Before that was Project N. How many SNES owners did he convince to lay down their cash on that one?
When I saw that MegaWire4.0 commercial on YT, I was enraged! Spending money on that freaking commercial while myself and others still don't have our products that were ordered around 2012! The nerve of this guy.
I was one of those who was hesitant & did not pledge for Demons of Asteborg. I did order it later and its a gem. I did pledge for Astebros. However, there will always be a doubt now, pertaining to if I have chosen wisely, concerning pre-orders/Kickstarters, etc.
When I saw that Kickstarter for Paprium, again I was like nope, not 1 penny. I learned my lesson and I'm still paying for it. Even if whatever is left of WM happens to mail me my existing Investor's Copy of Paprium, I will never forget the absurdity of it all. I don't know if I will be able to enjoy the game, since some have said its terrible. It pains me to say this, but Fonzie did come through for some. There is a sliver of a chance that, years from now, some more individuals may receive their products from Fonzie. It looks more doubtful that this will be the case with Amico. However, as you stated, there's millions involved with the Amico, (a lawyer's playground) and the possibility to get the money back w/ a class action lawsuit. Fonzie, not so much. He did offer refunds, so I have to give him that to, dang it.
The forum users talk about these things because there is an innate human desire to talk more about drama and people than about actual media. This thread was created because the original Paprium thread was 700 pages, at least 300 of which was about this nonsense. Rightly so considering people spent money and got absolutely nothing in return. But how can you talk about a game that most people can't play because they can't buy it? Fonzie is basically a scammer.Quote:
Originally Posted by SEGA-Jorge
I'm with you on that. It's because of people like you who never got the game they paid for, as well as people who worked with Fonzie who never got paid, that I have zero sympathy for him. The fact that he can spend so much on advertising, traveling, holding fake release parties and producing useless trinkets shows he simply does not care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iced Snowman
If you want to play Paprium, there are ways to do it on your PC. I won't say the game is terrible but it's definitely amateurish. Streets of Rage IV has much better gameplay and none of the drama. I wish it got half the attention that Paprium gets.
streets of rage IV was a success worldwide and even got a dlc out lots of people bought, saying that paprium got more attention than it did is a bit... eh :p
I meant more like on here, yes worldwide SoR4 is a much bigger success. But what can I say, I like the drama-filled threads too :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Goati
It didn't get attention here because a lot of the community fancies itself knowledgeable regarding beat 'em ups, and somehow landed on SOR4 being a weak entry. Outside this community, SOR4 was really well-received, and pretty well-respected.Quote:
Originally Posted by axel
I personally loved SOR4, and I am glad it did well.