This came across my recommended list today on YT so after watching it I decided I would share it here to discuss and get some impressions and/or feedback on what any of you think about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FexI3TLIlQ
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This came across my recommended list today on YT so after watching it I decided I would share it here to discuss and get some impressions and/or feedback on what any of you think about this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FexI3TLIlQ
First you should link to the actual dev's video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJMTExZTLVU
Secondly, he's not actually porting Resident Evil 2. He's making his own classic survival horror engine and just using Resident Evil 2 data for testing purposes.
Gigantic loading times and horrible-looking 3d models?
Not that I've ever played a Saturn, that may be expected of it, I wouldn't know.
The load time at the start is becuase he's loading in all the uncompressed backgrounds. The PS1 version uses it's MDEC chip to decompress the backgrounds quickly, the Saturn doesn't have that luxury and would need a software solution. For right now the dev is simply loading everything into the 4MB RAM with the intent of dealing with that issue later.Quote:
Originally Posted by roce
The models come straight from the PS1 disc so I'm not sure what you're expecting there.
I mean both the start and in-between loading times. Even the loading times between two scenes (after entering a door) were unacceptably long in that video.
About the 3d models, yeah, seems you're right. I played RE2 on the N64, and the models on that were a lot nicer, but a PS1 longplay matches that.
The door transitions only seem long because there's no door animation to hide and distract you from it. And again its loading uncompressed images into RAM off the disc at the moment. Each room can have up to 16 unique camera angles. Loading all that uncompressed data takes time.
The models are again pulled from the PS1 disc so again I'm not sure what you're expecting or comparing to. They look the same.
I shared his post on twitter the other day.
For an early demo, it looks great.
And I think the shading actually makes the characters look better in this version; the game is supposed to have a dark atmosphere after all.
I was comparing to the RE2 I know, which is the N64 version. The models here are a significant downgrade. I would have had the same reaction to the PS1 version, just wasn't aware it too was that ugly.
Are the models on the N64 version that different? Sure they probably don't suffer from polygon glitching and sorting issues as much and should look more stable. But are they actually more detailed, in that they are using more polys? I don't think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by roce
If anything, the models on the PS1 look better since the textures on the N64 version are reduced in size, making them more blurry and less detailed in the end.
https://i.imgur.com/CBN8Mey.png https://i.imgur.com/yUsA5s4.png
Look, i really like the N64 version and it is a "miracle" port since they managed to cram so much data, including the FMVs, on a 64MB cart. But let's not pretend this didn't come with some regressions. Textures and backgrounds on the N64 version are lower resolution. Sure, the 3D models are more stable, like in any other N64 port, but this game uses a lot of texture and 2D pre-rendered art which doesn't exactly play that well with N64's strengths in 3D rendering. They could maybe improve the geometry detail in the models but who has time to do that when they can just use the existing models?
At least the 3D models are rendered in higher resolution if you use the expansion pack and anti-aliased, which makes them look cleaner.
I'm pretty sure the models are the same. The textures are significantly lower quality though on N64.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulis
Yeah, you beat me to it while i was editing my post with more information.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
You both beat me to say the same thing.
I think it's important to reinforce this though: those are really great results for a homebrew engine and directly imported assets.
It's not like he's squeezing every bit of what the Saturn can do or has tailored every asset to favor the platform; no.
The fact that it runs smoothly and has apparently no downgrades is awesome given that it's just a demo he put together to showcase his engine and porting RE2 to the Saturn (unlike the first video suggests) is not his final goal.
Well he is using both CPUs and was at one point using the DSP to help with transformations, and he has been tinkering with quite a few different optimizations for a while. Now though he's looking to instead have the DSP handle lighting. The main issue he has is RAM. The game was very much tailored around the PS1 so it used the MDEC to decompress backgrounds, and really worked around having 2MB of unified memory instead of 2 1MB banks. So for now he's using the 4MB RAM cart to try and work around that issue until he can come up with a better solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barone
He said typically the zombie models are about ~350 Polygons and the player model is about ~450 polygons. During crowded scenes with 6 zombies and the player he's at about ~1500 polygons per frame which he said drops it to about 20fps.
Thanks for the info, I clearly didn't know that. I assume this is not a software renderer, but keep in mind that Vic still found some extra performance improvements in the last release of D32XR.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
Obviously better talk to him for proper details, but one thing was to reorder the mov instructions so that they are aligned on longword boundaries; this helps to make the most out of the SH2s. IDK if this other developer has paid attention to that already.
I also wasn't aware of the MDEC usage, ha! That's a clever thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
I know this is not desired since most people don't own it, but do you know if it's possible to use those Saturn VCD cards to the same extent?
The unified memory thing I had seen been discussed by former PS1/Sat developers as an advantage for the PS1, yes. That's why sometimes you don't know exactly what you'll get with the Saturn, 'cause even the RAM structure is more complicated.
Well, hopefully, he's "just" 2 or 3 ms per frame away from maintaining 30 fps.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
Not entirely sure, but I do know people have found modern GCC versions actually help a bit and produce smaller binaries that generally perform better on Saturn. Not sure what all Vic was using for 32X stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barone
The VCD card can decompress static JPEG images up to 704x480 resolution. But using that would really be cheating. Plus if the Saturn can do software based DCT FMV codecs at 10-15fps, I'd imagine you could probably come up with a software implementation that could decompress them fast enough for going between camera angles. While they may not be fast enough to do 30fps FMV, they'd probably be fast enough to handle decompressing a static background image in under a second. Plus there's other compression schemes you could use. It's just not high on his list of priorities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barone
Also for kicks and giggles, I encoded all of Leon's FMVs in Cinepak if anyone's curious as to how Saturn would potentially hold up against the other ports of the time in this area:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/amanh.../Leon.zip/file
https://tcrf.net/Resident_Evil_2_(Nintendo_64)
Yes, I have an expansion pak and played the high-res mode.Quote:
If using the Memory Expansion Pak, polygon models and textures are of higher quality and resolution compared to the PlayStation version.
Take stuff on that site with a grain of salt. It regularly has wrong info. What's most likely happening is the expansion pak is letting it render in a higher resolution, but the assets are being upscaled as I don't think there's any different model data or texture and background data on the cart.Quote:
Originally Posted by roce
The difference of higher resolution (and anti-aliasing) is that the 3D models have cleaner, less aliased edges. Assets don't change. I highly doubt they would store 2 different versions of every asset (one for low and one for high-res) on the cartridge were the game is compressed so much that if it was any more it would create a small black hole.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
IMO, neither version is "the best". You pick your poison. On PS1 you have low-res models that wobble and glitch but higher-res assets. On N64 you have lower res assets but the higher-res 3D models are stable and cleaner looking.
Personally, i would probably choose the PS1 version because the game is 80% 2D/pre-rendered assets and 20% 3D. Plus, if you emulate it you can get both the good quality assets and the high-res stable models (yes, you can fix the wobbling too now), while if you emulate the N64 version you are still stuck with the lower-res assets since these don't get better with emulation unless you use a texture mod pack.
The guy is doing a wonderful job with RE2 Saturn.
Speaking of which, I never undestood the claim back in the days, where RE2 was "technically impossible" on Saturn (I don't remember if it was the official excuse capcom used after sony paid for the exclusive, os if it was just the sony magazines propaganda).
I mean we are talking about a game with 3 (max 4) 3D models on screen and a jpeg background...
That was just people not taking the time to read what was said and talking it out of context too, so many did just the same with EDGE interview with Yu Suzuki.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtua Hunter
In the SSM interview with Funamizu-san he says the port 'wouldn't' have been impossible, they didn't need more RAM and the port was started, just that Capcom couldn't push the calculations any more and he also states that the reason why the Saturn version was dropped was because of Dreamcast. No doubt SEGA had asked and wanted Capcom to be on the DC early and bring out the RE games and well almost all of retail was also dropping support of the Saturn too
So from the person working on it, there actually are quite a few challenges as stated previously. You actually can get up to 6+ zombies + the player in a few spots which ends up at 1500 polygons or more per frame. Which that can be quite a bit taxing for the Saturn and currently causes this homebrew engine to drop to 20fps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtua Hunter
The other issue is RAM. The PS1 version uses the MDEC chip to decompress the background images. Each room can have up to 16 different camera angles and background images. Those need to be in RAM so they can quickly transition between them as you go through the room. Without compression those take up a lot of space and can't fit into the Saturn's 2MB of RAM. This is why the dev is currently using the 4MB RAM cart and probably why Capcom was reportedly using it back in the 90s when they were looking into porting it.
While there are software compression schemes that can be used, we don't know yet how viable they are to get the images down to a good size and if they can be worked into the existing engine's memory footprint.
RE 2 Saturn port did not use the 4-Meg Cart and Capcom also clearly stated in the interview, they did not need more RAM. The 4-MEG rumour was started in the SSM, with SSM staff assuming RE2 would look to use the 4 MEG Cart much like them saying Digital Dance mix was based on a VF3 Saturn engine..
When people get past fanboys and system bashing, any port is possible, it then just becomes how much is lost in the port. How many SEGA fanboy's said Sonic/2 or SOR2 would be impossible possible on the SNES only for the games to appear on the Master System, Sonic even was on the Neo Geo Pocket
The Saturn had no right to handle Model 2 ports, when you think of it, SEGA even looked to port VF2 to the Mega Drive
If Capcom looked to port Dead Rising down to a Wii or even looked at one stage to bring RE out to a Gameboy Colour one can be sure that if Capcom really wanted too, RE2 could have come on out the Saturn, with what cutbacks we will never know
I think the Saturn port was dropped more for commercial reasons, than technical, given that even in Japan its software wasn't selling in great numbers and also with SEGA having the head of Capcom at its New Challenge conference to make announcements for the DC (and any RE game back then was a big deal). Why have Capcom/SEGA work a port for a dying system, that would no doubt look inferior, when you could have the best port of the game possible and also show off the wonders of Win CE too LOL
A bet the same sort of thing happened with RE0 on the N64, why waste any more time on a dying format and just look to bring it to the Cube instead
Hence why I said reportedly using it, though you don't really have the best track record for reading/interpreting old magazine artciles. That said, there is still a clear RAM issue which the current dev behind this homebrew engine is running into and I explained in the post above. I wouldn't be surprised if Capcom was using the 4MB cart at some point in porting just to make it easier to get something up and running before they had a working compression scheme. The same reason this dev is currently using it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Technically if it used SGL that would be a Saturn Virtua Fighter engine. I believe that particular rumor comes from the game starting with them testing how good they could get character models and animations looking on Saturn to get an idea of if VF3 was possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
I remember actually scanning (that's how long ago it was) in the interview to post on here, way back when. Capcom couldn't be more clear on it when it comes to RAM or the real reason why it was dropped.
I guess you're referring to bringing up pixel dust?. Scavenger were the 1st one to talk of the cross fade transparency, funnily enough, talking to SSM when SSM covered their games and was looking at Scorcher You play that game and it's nice for a bit of fade in but that's all and Scavenger didn't need to use fancy magic terms either
RE 2 of course would have been possible on the Saturn, it just becomes then at what cost with quality. I would simply say SEGA was fast dropping the Saturn itself and would have been looking for quality software to sell and promote their system early in and no doubt put pressure on Capcom, to look to bring RE2 to the DC and I bet the same happened with RE0 and Nintendo looking for software on the Cube. Still, interviews are not always the best or age well if you're 'Capcom' ... I remember Shinji Mikami in various interviews, slagging off the PS2: saying he'll never work on it, its a nightmare system way harder to work on than the Saturn, N64! how RE4 would be impossible on it Ect, Ect. Only for RE4 to come out on the PS2 and Mikami-san himself to make GodHand on the PS2.
Seem to remember Capcom also saying that SF2 would be SNES only in an interview and I fell for that one LOL And had my Auntie buy me a Snes. Stil it was a great system, so not all bad in the end
And with Digital Dance Mix running on VF3 engine, that was just pure speculation on SSM part (along with the game being finished on the Saturn) photoreal-looking characters were not part of VF3 look, sure it would be running on the same engine, but I would guess that was true for most of AM#2 Saturn games, like how most Sonic Teams games run on the NiGHTS engine. I don't think anything off DDM would have been used on any possible VF3 port. I would have thought VF3 on the Saturn would have looked and been far more like Fighting Megamix and don't see what more the Saturn could have given over FMM on a base system.
You mean this snippet from EGM?:Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
https://i.imgur.com/xv6iIh2.png
Other articles I see don't really have direct statements from Capcom, but all tend to point to the 4MB RAM cart being used or considered. But in this one he clearly states they had technical hurdles that made it difficult and led to them deciding to just drop it and move to Dreamcast. However as usual you're completely focusing on a minor detail and ignoring the actual point. The point is there actually is an actual legit issue with getting Resident Evil 2 to run on the Saturn that could lead to a need for the 4MB RAM cart.
Each camera angle's background tiles take up about 78KB, and you can have up to 16 different angles in a signle room. You need to have them all in RAM and ready to go to avoid bad pauses going between camera angles. so 78KB * 16 = 1.2MB. That's not going to fit in all of LWRAM, and you most likely don't have room in HWRAM for that as that's where the actual game program, graphics engine, etc. all are. Plus there's more to a Room than just the background image. So you need some form of compression here to free up space, but is also fast enough to be decompressed quickly enough to avoid pauses in transitions. Plus you need to hope there's enough space in HWRAM for decompression buffers. Which if you don't have that, then the 4MB RAM cart is going to be needed. That's what the current dev of this homebrew engine is running into and is why he's using the 4MB cart. I wouldn't be surprised if Capcom did something similar at the time when they were working on it. At the very least I could see them using it temporarily until they came up with a better solution.
I really don't give a shit about what vague statements and speculation you can pull out of old magazines. They generally aren't very useful for these technical discussions as the info was either BS at the time or is outdated and inaccurate. What matters more is the actual hardware and what developers have learned about the systems.
The use of 4-MEG cart was pure speculation on the press part and of course, any game built from the ground up for a system would be difficult to port and it's not just fanboys that say silly stuff, but also developers and programmers too. I remember John Carmack telling PC Zone, how Doom 3 was only possible on the PC, no console could handle it! Only for it to come out on the XBox, John also told EDGE he'll never work with Nintendo again after the Snes, only for Quake, Quake 2 and Doom to come out on the N64 , Sony Europe told EDGE that Wipeout 2097 was only possible on PS hardware only for a very good port to come out on the Saturn, I remember Itagaki-san saying Ninja Gaiden 2 was only possible on the 360, Team Ninja would only work on 360 hardware, only for the game to come out on the PS3
If we look at Capcom, I remember reading how SF II was only going to be on the Snes, only for it to come out on the MD and PC Eng (and how many of us bought a Snes believing Capcom? I know I did)
How Dead Rising was only possible on the 360, only for the game to come out on Wii, how RE 4 was only possible on the Cube, only for it come out on the PS2; Speaking of which, that was a system Mikami-san swore he would never work on, or he would leave Capcom! Only for him to work on the PS2 and make Godhand . I remember Capcom saying that X-Men Vs Streetfighter was only possible on the Saturn and would be an exclusive, only for the game to of course, come out on the PS.
How many SEGA fanboys and fans even on here, said that Sonic was only possible due to Blast Processing and the Snes even wouldn't be able to handle the music, let alone the game. Now thanks to the Homebrew community, Sonic is out on the Snes, music as well and that's to look over no retail MD game ever used blast processing.. But hey, it sounded good and us SEGA fanboy's used it
When one moves past the fanboy or silliness and looks at it from a business perspective, if a publisher thinks there's a market and they can make 'money', any port becomes possible, its then becomes what you lose or can add, to the port in question If I was to guess, Capcom might have looked to cut the number of zombies on screen at the same time, in a Saturn version of Re2 , much like how they cut the number of enemies on screen at the same time with Fial Fight on the Mega CD or Snes , But any port is possible no matter the hardware.
I would say that RE2 was moved to DC more to a dying Saturn market and SEGA looking to get quality software on its new system. I bet the same also happened with Capcom for RE0 on the Cube and also Onimusha on the PS2; We've got new systems coming and we need quality games, please... despite them being developed for the N64 and PS originally.
Isn't it possible to add something simple like RLE compression to reduce the backgrounds to fit into the 1 meg slow ram?
Or use the SH1 memory as extra buffer.
Or, worst case scenario, reduce them to 128 color to halve their size.
If somebody can get RE2 running on a GBA in their spare time, I'm pretty sure Capcom and SEGA could have got RE2 on the Saturn, where you have a team of 30 full time staff, whose paid job would be to port the game and they'll be given every resource and libraries to get the game done (given it would have been a high profile title at the time)
Capcom says and do lots of stuff only to change their mind.
I remember Capcom telling EDGE how Viewtiful Joe graphics was not at possible on the PS2 and I'm sure even Smilbit said that JSR graphics wouldn't be possible on the PS2
Only for the PS2 to of coruse get a port of Vewtifull Joe and blow apart the notion that the PS2 couldn't do cell shading
Can you please just read and respond to the actual arguments? If you can't do that then stay out of technical discussions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Possibly, but part of the issue is HWRAM is full in the current engine he has from all the different buffers he has for the polygon rendering. So there might not be enough space to have a decompression buffer in HWRAM. And again, there's other data that still needs to be loaded in beyond just the backgrounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by zyrobs
I think the only person who's shown that being workable was VBT, and it's very finnicky. And that still might not be enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by zyrobs
GBA can read stuff directly from ROM, so it might actually have an easier time with this situation if they had a big enough ROM. And I agree Capcom could have gotten RE2 running on Saturn. But seeing what challenges this Dev is having with it I'm starting to understand why the 4MB cart might be necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Capcom say a lot of stuff, only to then go back on their world. RE4 was Cube only, SF 2 Snes only, Code Veronica DC only, Dead Rising or Lost Planet were only possible on the 360 and would only be on those systems, much like only the Saturn could handle a home version of X-men Vs Streetfighter and it would be Saturn exclusive, or how Shinji would never work on the PS2, RE4 would never come to the PS2 or he'll leave Capcom.
Looking over all that.
If Capcom could look to bring RE to a Gameboy colour, brought RE 2 to a bloody Gamecom. Then you can be sure, where's money, there's a way. If there was a big market for Saturn software and SEGA wasn't looking to bring out a new system. RE2 was possible on Saturn or really any main 32-Bit system. It then becomes only what the porting team look to add or take away from the port, to make it all possible or worthwhile.
The Playstation version of X-Men VS Street Fighter is missing the key gameplay feature that defines the VS series. It is missing because only the Saturn or a cost prohibitive N64 cart could pull it off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
That leaves it as "X-Men COTA 'II featuring The World Warriors".
Saying that the Saturn could have pulled off RE2 by dropping asset quality down to a level that it would fit within the console CD ram, similar to ports to GBC and Gamecom, is arguing that it wasn't possible to pull off a full quality RE2 port on Saturn without a ram cart.
I don't give a shit what Capcom may or may not have said in a poorly translated magazine article that you read. I'm talking about the actual tangible data on the disc and the actual hardware specs of the systems. And looking at that, there is a serious memory issue. Now there maybe some compression that could have helped with this, but it still may have required a RAM cart when it was all said and done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
I remember back in the day Nintendo scoffed at Sonic being impossible on the SNES. They said something like "character speed has nothing to do with processor speed, a plumber could move as fast as a hedgehog if programmed to do so." I never doubted the SNES could handle the basic Sonic engine, it is just a 2D platformer after all, where I think it would have trouble is when there's lots of sprites or trying to run Sonic 2's two player split screen. For that it might need an enhancement chip. As far as music goes, yes the SNES can do it, but it needs a lot of high quality samples (meaning a bigger ROM) to mimic the FM synthesis of the Genesis. So while making something resembling Sonic was totally possible it would have been more expensive back in the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
The one thing the SNES can never match is the screen resolution. I saw people complain about that in TiagoSC's port, since the assets are the same width it's like cutting four columns off the screen, so you are constantly running into stuff you can't see. That's my main gripe with the SMS to Game Gear ports too, they really needed to redesign the stages and/or redraw everything. Sonic Pocket Adventure on NGPC was designed with the hardware in mind and it feels great, an underrated gem of a game that shows how good Sonic could have been on 8-bit hardware.
The point was it was still possible and it also went against what Capcom said when 1st showing off X-Mex Men Vs Steet Fighter on the Saturn at the Toyko game show (or some event in Japan). Where Capcom said it would only be possible on the Saturn and would be exclusive. When one gets past system point scoring, fanboy talk any port is possible, it becomes all about what can be added or needed to be taken away to make it possibleQuote:
Originally Posted by Black_Tiger
It wasn't poorly translated, it was more about people miss quoting, what was actually said that was more the issue and when it comes to Capcom they do say a lot of things, only to do the exact oppositeQuote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
If people can get RE2 running on a GBA or the game saw a release on a Tiger GameCom, then you could have been sure RE2 could have come out on a Saturn. It all becomes what would have needed to be taken out or changed to make it all possible. Sticking with the GBA, one saw a silly amount of games that should have no business running on the hardware from Tekken, Sega Rally, Max Payne to Crazy Taxi and you're on the hombew, thanks to that we now see Quake and Tomb Raider running on a GBA.
Anything is possible, even having VF2 running on a base Mega Drive, where most people thinking the Saturn couldn't do it after VF port.
Lots of sides will say this or that game isn't possible or can't be done, only for it to turn out, not to be the case and I've been there myself with silly comments on RSG or Batman Returns on the Mega CD, way way back on Video imports chat room (that's how long it was, a bloody chat room) remember in school MD fans saying Sonic, SOR 2, Thunder Force IV wouldn't be possible on the SNES and then you get the Snes lot, saying Mario Kart, Axelay wouldn't be possible and it's all for the birds. Treasure even said Gunstar Heroes wouldn't be possible on any other system other than the MD, only for the game to come out on a Master System?Quote:
Originally Posted by axel
Remember back in the old days on the DCTP many DC fans said cell shading wouldn't be possible on the PS2 or due to the way DC handled textures, Shenmue would be possible on the PS2, only for it to turn out years later that 80% of Shenmue 1/2 was developed and completed, on a base Saturn. Not that much diff from how some PS2 fans, would say ICO was only possible due to the EE, only for most of its development to have been done on a PS.
I love it all mind, it's nice to see fans supporting and loyal to their brand, just like with sport, but like with Sports when you start to wear the fanboy hat, common sense goes out the window, but my God are the debates such good fun . Any port is possible, but for sure, just by looking at some games, how they look, run and sound and dread how it would be handled on another system. I mean I think most would know that Dead Rising on the Wii was going to be needed (and pardon the pun) heavily cut back and you would just know, a Snes Thunder Force IV would need changes
Again, I DO NOT CARE WHAT CAPCOM SAID IN AN OLD INTERVIEW. I am instead more interested in concrete evidence from people attempting to get something like RE2 running on the actual hardware. And the cold hard truth of the matter is there is a RAM problem. The uncompressed data will not fit into the stock system memory, and there's no guarantee a software compression solution will work due to HWRAM being at capacity. The PS1 got away with this because it had the MDEC to decompress the background images on the fly. Saturn doesn't have that. N64 got away with it because it used lower quality assets and had more RAM with a beefier CPU to brute force it's way through a DCT based compression algorithm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
And lets be truly honest here, lowering the quality of the 2D backgrounds on a system like the Saturn would not be an acceptable compromise.
I don't remember any SMS to Game Gear ports that weren't reworked. Their being even just remixed let alone redrawn was part of the appeal.Quote:
Originally Posted by axel
I get what you're saying, but there's a world of difference with some of these ports. The 8-bit "ports" of Resident Evil are nowhere near the same games, they have completely different engines and assets. So in a sense any game is possible on any hardware if you accept having two different games with the same name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Andromeda
Also Gunstar Heroes for the Master System isn't a real game. People have taken the Game Gear version, patched it for SMS mode, then they usually run it in emulators that don't enforce the sprite limit. So it looks pretty good, but it's not accurate to the hardware.
You're right I should have been more specific. They did make some changes, but in both Sonic 1 and 2 I run into areas where I die much more often on the GG than SMS because of the smaller screen size. It's not all bad though, some bugs were fixed in the GG releases. This wasn't just a problem for Sega either. I also find it much harder to play games like SMB or Crystalis on the GBC because you have about half the screen real estate as before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Tiger
If the question was just getting it out on the stores by the deadline, then yeah, it would be an absolutely acceptable compromise. Reducing the colours by half would not have looked THAT bad, assuming they had the original graphics to work with and applied enough dithering. On a CRT with composite cable, which is what the majority of users had, it would have made zero difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
And I don't know what memory map they had set up, but if it's just backgrounds, they can put 12 backgrounds in low ram, 4 in vdp2 ram and just swap out one out of the four if they have to display something else, that way everything fits there in full 256 colors. However I don't know what else they used the VDP2 for.
He's already done that. The original graphics on PS1 decompress to 24-bit RGB bitmaps. He's already converted those over to 256 color tilemaps. Going any further is going to to start looking bad. Even if you match PS1 level compression, the largest rooms still require about 1.2MB of RAM for everything (all the backgrounds, collision data, textures, animations, scripting, etc.) So we'd need all of LWRAM available plus some of HWRAM for the other bits. And since the compression is now software based, you'll need some memory available to do that decompression.Quote:
Originally Posted by zyrobs
So now we have LWRAM and VDP2 VRAM almost full with just backgrounds. But we still need somewhere to put all the character models, their animation data, the rest of the room data (collision data, layering data, textures, animations, lighting, etc.). Some of it might fit in HWRAM, but then again there may not be enough room with all the rendering code and buffers he has going on there.Quote:
Originally Posted by zyrobs
I'm not saying it's impossible, but it is a very challenging thing to try and overcome. And at the end of the day I wouldn't blame a dev for just using the RAM carts. That's why they exist after all. And I wouldn't be surprised if Capcom would have come to that conclusion as well back in the 90s.
Correct. I just tried it in Photoshop, I took a few screenshots from Resident Evil PSX and converted them to 256 and 128 colors. Going to 256 colors looked fine, I doubt I would even notice during gameplay. It helps that a lot of scenes are already dark. Going to 128 looked terrible. The dithering is obvious, especially near any light source.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118