Unfair criticism? Marble garden zone....

Just reading through the forums over the last year or so everytime a thread seems to stumle across Sonic 3 invariably Marble Garden Zone will be mentioned and then swiftly condemned, the most recent example of this is the Sonic 1 best zone thread, the Ten games you should not own thread and The best games of 1991.

Now as recently as last night, I began on a quest to finish sonic 3 & Knuckles again, the holy grail of gaming in my opinion. And my oh my is it fantastic. I hadn't played it in a while but I was long after forgetting just how fantastic Sonic 3 is (being the first 6 zones of the duo).

Now I still believe Sonic 3 to be the weakest link in the chain (discounting 3d a totally different model and game), but it certainly has its place in the series. The level design is so crazy, and sometimes damn right confusing but it just is an awesome game. The graphics are there to be purred over, the soundtrack is very exciting, the speed is unreal, I don't know how a 16bit console handled the pace and the innovation is utterly delightful...

And back to the main point, I think Marble Garden represents all of this, the music is utterly great, the stage is warped (and great) the little innovations are fun and the boss is really cool also... So I for one would dispel the myth that its terrible, even though I know it will get a hammering on the poll... :cool:

I hate Marble Garden Zone for the following reasons:

• The music is HORRIBLE.
• It is a rip-off of Marble Zone - one of the best zones ever.
• Those weird things you are running on are impossible to control.
• The graphics don't improve anything over the prequels.
• It is boring to play.
• The enemies are just annoying.
• Etc.
• And so on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zebbe

I hate Marble Garden Zone for the following reasons:

• The music is HORRIBLE.
• It is a rip-off of Marble Zone - one of the best zones ever.
• Those weird things you are running on are impossible to control.
• The graphics don't improve anything over the prequels.
• It is boring to play.
• The enemies are just annoying.
• Etc.
• And so on.

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Hmmmmm

• I think the music is great though
• I don't see how its a rip off really, I guess its supposed to be the "garden" of the old marble zone, but despite grass I can't really see any similarites, Hilltop zone is probably closer to marble zone.
• Ya they are pretty hard to control alright ;)
• I think there is a lot of detail there, The apple trees are nice and there are a lot of cool features
• Perhaps, its certainly not incredible
• They are pretty annoying, especially the ones that jump up from nowhere

Opinions, opinions, opinions, I love them especially when they differ, good points Zebbe, I expect Mr Smith to wholly endorse your comments! :D

Thanks. Opinions are like asses - everybody has one. I'm looking forward to Mr Smith's comments as well :D.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zebbe

Thanks. Opinions are like asses - everybody has one. I'm looking forward to Mr Smith's comments as well :D.

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I think the old saying goes: "opinions are like assholes, we've all got 'em, and they all stink" :D Get it right Zebbe!

I might be one of the few people who loves ALL Sonic zones. Seriously. I've never stopped midlevel and thought "man, this isn't fun at all."

I used this version because people complained at the Swedish one: "Opinions are like asses - divided". Gene Simmons said "Everybody has one", so I used it this time.

I like the zone, the music is boring though, and these things you run on are little annoying. You need to know the route to get through it quicly.

I just don't like the zone layouts; the entire game feels so slow! Going straight from Sonic 2 to Sonic 3 is like tightening your belt by eight notches - you're restricted to the point of choking.

The music is nice, though. It's perfect 'do the robot' breakbeat :)

The only crappy zone in "Sonic 3" is Carnival Night.

I love Marble Garden. Music, background, boss. I'll defend its honor!

"I can't stand it but there are worse out there"

Like everything in Sonic Blast and most of Sonic 2 SMS.

Too many poll options for me to bother. :p

I question the sanity of anybody who finds Marble Garden Zone the least bit enjoyable. If the people who created the zone set out with the idea of making a Sonic zone paradoxical to fun, then they achieved it. Marble Garden Zone is the most worthless and tosh zone from the early Sonic games. Never have I felt more contempt for a level. The level design for a start is awful. Long speedy bits followed by a slight increase in ground level makes it too stop-start. It's ugly as hell. The badniks are lame; there's those worthless sets of spikes that fire bullets at you - a set of spikes would make the level more challenging, those stupid blue bubble things which actually make themselves defenceless so you can kill them - epic fail, and those bloody annoying leaping mantis things. The spikeballs are too large and appear out of nowhere to get in a cheap shot. The boss is also crap. The music is dull and uninspiring, it reminds me of fat people trying to have sex. Too cumbersome, drags too much and just when you think it might spring into action... it doesn't and just ends up being pretty boring. Some bits of the level seem to empty and others too full. I hate those signposts that tell you the direction to go, as it just shows how crappy the level design is when they need to give you bloody in game directions. How, Zebbe, you can claim it's like Marble Zone is beyond me. Marble Zone looked better, sounded better, felt better, played better and was generally better. I think I have vented most of my contempt for this zone, but to summarise: Tosh! Tosh! Tosh!

What I meant with calling it a ripoff of Marble Zone is this: the name, the mountains in the background, the marble in the level itself together with the green grass. I question the decision to rehash those design ideas from Marble Zone into Marble Garden Zone; there is nothing, absolutely nothing that is superior with Marble Garden Zone compared to Marble Zone!!!

There are quite a few Sonic levels that copy earlier ones.

None fail so miserably as Marble Garden does.

I like Marble Garden. Lots of secrets, fun bosses.

Ya I think its a box of tricks myself, very fun and diverse, Linearity is great too, but sonic evolved steadily through the series

• Sonic the hedgehog Beautiful simple linearity and again simple classically composed songs
• Sonic 2 A slight step up in level design with more secret pathways, a new side kick tails, more different routes, and a slightly more evolved soundtrack
• Sonic 3 Again another step forward, far more diversity, a bag of different items to interact with, a complex soundtrack, additional advantages with tails and mini boss section
• Sonic and Knuckles The honing in of all that was great from the 3 predecessors to make for the most amazing sonic experience, culminating in jaw dropping graphics, fantastic level design, a new all emcompassing character, great music, fantastic zones that had a different theme in act 2, improved bosses and mini bosses, the best of the lot!

I think marble garden zone was indicitive of sonic 3 off the walls and different, experimental even, but again how else are sonic games going to distinguish themselves. I think sega were right not to churn out the same old same old, I say kudos to marble garden....


I should probably start up a petition to defend its honour :p

Totally agree with the above post !!! S3+S&K is the ultimate kick though

Flame me if you wish, but I like this level. The steep hills and crumbling earthquake segments make the stage intresting for me.

And how can anyone not like the Act II music? It's fab...

I wonder what evildragon thinks of the Marble Garden Zone...

Bomber, I can accept that Ireland is a superior Mega Drive nation to England, but I can never accept that Sonic 3 was a step forward from Sonic 2. Yes, it did try new things and was experimental, but these experiments failed miserably. Sonic 3 is a feeble excuse of a Sonic game. Hydrocity, Marble Garden and Carnival Night zones are three of the most brokenly horrible levels ever churned out by Sonic Team and Angel Island and Launch Base are average at best. Personally I also believe Icecap only gets all the praise it does is because the rest of the game ranges from average to poor. All the mini-bosses are tosh too and belittle the awesome trepidation you would get when having to face Robotnik at the end of a zone. Sonic & Knuckles was a much better game.

^ Harsh words, but very true!

Icecap gets rave reviews because of the godly music.

Well, it is good music.

I always liked this stage, it had great music! Although those spike balls were cheap

Not any worse than those goddamn starfish in "Metropolis Zone".

Hydrocity is the best zone in S3... at least the act2 in it... pretty much fastest stage ever (with few slow parts)

Geez, I still say the Music in Marble Garden was horrid.
The slopes in the level that trapped you to a specific path also looses points with me.

way too much emphasis on those spinny tops.

it was a good idea that went bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TmEE

Hydrocity is the best zone in S3... at least the act2 in it

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You have got to be one of the following:
a) Joking.
b) Insane.
c) Drinking water lined with radioactive substances.
d) On hallucinogenic drugs.
e) Wrong.
Please select you answer carefully.

After the huge chasms of the Laybrinth Zone and the unseen underwater dangers in the Aquatic Ruin Zone, the Hydrocity Zone felt as dangerous as splashing around in the bath. Utter tosh.

The only poor levels in the entire (proper and true) Sonic series are:

1st - Carnival Night
2nd - Casino Night
3rd - Spring Yard
4th - Collision Chaos

Notice a pattern?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Smith

You have got to be one of the following:
a) Joking.
b) Insane.
c) Drinking water lined with radioactive substances.
d) On hallucinogenic drugs.
e) Wrong.
Please select you answer carefully.

After the huge chasms of the Laybrinth Zone and the unseen underwater dangers in the Aquatic Ruin Zone, the Hydrocity Zone felt as dangerous as splashing around in the bath. Utter tosh.

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B) is probably what it is... But I love the act, its insanely fast in most parts, and it has one of the best BGM ever. Aquatic Ruin sucks and Labyrinth is too slow...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Smith

You have got to be one of the following:
a) Joking.
b) Insane.
c) Drinking water lined with radioactive substances.
d) On hallucinogenic drugs.
e) Wrong.
Please select you answer carefully.

After the huge chasms of the Laybrinth Zone and the unseen underwater dangers in the Aquatic Ruin Zone, the Hydrocity Zone felt as dangerous as splashing around in the bath. Utter tosh.

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You must be suffering from tea withdrawal because there is nothing wrong with Hydrocity Zone.

It is a fun, speedy zone with good BGM.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rusty Venture

You must be suffering from tea withdrawal because there is nothing wrong with Hydrocity Zone.

It is a fun, speedy zone with good BGM.

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The BGM sounds wretched and scratchy. It's speedy because their are very few challenges (it's like Chemical Plant designed for infants). There is nothing fun about it, the only satisfaction is turning it off midway through when you realise you were only going to switch the game off in Marble Garden, so why prolong the endurance test. The water is worthless because of the water shield. Knuckles's appearance is more pointless than non-alcoholic beer and the two bosses are tosh. Those small fish are gay too. :cool:

Hydrocity requires a bit of skill, and the music is righteous.

yea thinking back on it its the worst one that comes to mind. I used to think Carnival Zone was the worst because I was stuck at that one part forever (Glad to know I'm not the only one), but once you figure it all out its far better than Marble Garden Zone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Smith

snip all that tea withdrawal insanity

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Still a fun level with great BGM. Diss "Hydrocity" all ya want ,but we all know "Carnival Night" is still the shit of shit.

Marble Garden feels like such a chore fest, at least Carnival night is colourful with some "uplifting" music.

Starlight is probably my least favourite. No challenge whatsoever, and the walking bombs don't give any points. +1 to whoever mentions those bloody starfish in Metropolis Zone too...

Ya starlight is the easiest of the easiest to be thrown in late in a sonic game but still great... I think we all know that carnival night is actually the worst, Horrible music, reminding me of a terrible bloody circus i went to when I was 5, bloody horrible, with those stupid cylinder yolks, Terrible!

there's this one cylinder thats total pain if you have Tails around.... nightmare