Tomb Raider was over rated

I've been playing Tomb Raider again but while the early levels are fun the clunky controls and bad camera angles just become more of an issue in the later levels. When fighting in close quarters most of the time the camera is not pointing where the enemy is, and later the fact the later levels are less forgiving with jumps, means you have to compensate for the delay in jumping, which I find simply frustrating and makes me wonder why reviews back in 1996 didn't take off marks for the camera and control issues.

For it's time, it was pretty groundbreaking.

And boobs. Pixelated boobs.

Tomb Raider 1 & 2 were superb games for their time, especially the second one which did exactly what a great sequel is supposed to do. The controls worked the way they did because the entire game used a hidden cell-based system for positioning.

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Originally Posted by VinnyT

For it's time, it was pretty groundbreaking.

And boobs. Pixelated boobs.

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Mario 64 came out the same year, actually earlier (September 1996 in North America for Mario 64 vs November 1996 for Tomb Raider).

Utter tosh.

That atmosphere of Tomb Raider was awesome. Prior to that gaming had been generally 2D, however, Tomb Raider broke the mould and made an immerseable world that oozed of history, discovery and isolation. Of course the bloody game is blocky now, but the challenge is still awesome. Tomb Raider Anniversary is really cool too and it's fantastic to get those old levels beefed up to modern awesomeness.

Mario 64 is tosh. The only people who like that are Nintendo fanboys and people who like pretty colours. It was a tedious and pointless game that took off because it had the name Mario in the title.

And Tomb Raider was superior to Mario 64 in many ways, in my opinion. I'm not sure I understand your comments about clunky controls. One of the absolute best aspects of first Tomb Raider engine is the great controls. The Angel of Darkness controls were horrible but Legend got us back to much better controls. I never really thought the camera controls were bad since I never HAD camera control in 3D prior to playing Tomb Raider. I wish more subsequent games had as good of camera control as found in the original Tome Raider.

If you want FRUSTRATING camera control try playing Shadow of the Colossus! An utterly fantastic game but the fact that the game continually shifts camera angles to the absolute worst angle possible during boss fights unless you press and hold a specific button which is hard to do while trying to execute the other moves necessary to vanquish your foe. TR's rock steady always-behind-the-character camera sure works for me. Many, many programmers could create much, much better games by emulating the original Tomb Raider's camera and tight controls.

Problems with controls, push jump and 1 second later Lara jumps, if you only tap jump sometimes Lara won't jump at all.

Problem with camera, enemy sneaks behind you, you flip around but the camera is still facing the same direction.

I mention Mario 64 because the camera works better and Mario is far more responsive, many times I die in Tomb Raider because I forget to compensate for the delay in controls causing Laura to simply run of the ledge instead of do a running jump off the ledge.

I agree that the responsiveness was not the greatest and the camera can be annoying, but these are just minor faults in an awesome adventure that feels fantastic from start to finish, that will have you gasping as you leap over a huge abyss, jumping with fright as a boulder crashes down and staring in amazement at the epic 3D worlds (well at least 10 years ago they were very impressive).

The delay in controls make sense. When a person jumps, s/he is not immediately in the air. It takes a second to move one's legs appropriately. Lara isn't meant to be a cartoon character, she's meant to be a person. Not that the game is 100% realistic or anything, but still.

I disagree that Mario 64's camera works better. Tomb Raider's camera is far from perfect, but at least you don't have to mess with it. And I can't tell you how many times Mario 64's camera flung me off edges/cliffs. I don't think I was able to walk in a straight line a single time while playing Mario 64.

What made Tomb Raider great was the terrific level design, atmosphere/narrative, and the blend of action with puzzle-solving. What makes Tomb Raider infinitely better than Mario 64 is that it doesn't have a system of every level being unlocked by earning stars, and when you a finish a level, you don't go back to it with a different nonsense objective.

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Originally Posted by Mr Smith

Utter tosh.



Mario 64 is tosh. The only people who like that are Nintendo fanboys and people who like pretty colours. It was a tedious and pointless game that took off because it had the name Mario in the title.

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Or people who liked excellent platformers...

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Originally Posted by spiggysparks

Or people who liked excellent platformers...

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People who liked excellent platformers would not like Mario 64. People who like banjos, incest and staring at static on a TV screen like Mario 64.

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Originally Posted by j_factor

The delay in controls make sense. When a person jumps, s/he is not immediately in the air. It takes a second to move one's legs appropriately. Lara isn't meant to be a cartoon character, she's meant to be a person. Not that the game is 100% realistic or anything, but still.

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Yet when doing a running jump and don't hold jump way before the edge, you'll run off the edge without jumping.

The delay in shooting made combat odd, you draw your weapon but then when you fire there is a delay as Lura aims, it would have made much more sense for Lura to always be targeted at the closest target when her weapons are drawn so the instant you hit fire she will shoot at that target.

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Originally Posted by j_factor

I disagree that Mario 64's camera works better. Tomb Raider's camera is far from perfect, but at least you don't have to mess with it. And I can't tell you how many times Mario 64's camera flung me off edges/cliffs. I don't think I was able to walk in a straight line a single time while playing Mario 64.

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The problem I have with Tomb Raider's camera is it not showing me where the enemy I'm shooting at is.

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Originally Posted by j_factor

What made Tomb Raider great was the terrific level design, atmosphere/narrative, and the blend of action with puzzle-solving. What makes Tomb Raider infinitely better than Mario 64 is that it doesn't have a system of every level being unlocked by earning stars, and when you a finish a level, you don't go back to it with a different nonsense objective.

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placement that take full advantage of crap camera so you lose tons of heath simply because you are fighting the camera during battle.

Mario64 has way better controls and way better cameras! Mario64 was more groundbreaking than TR. I remember TR when it came out and yes it was a big deal but don't be knocking Mario64 it's more fun if you ask me.

The cameras in Mario64 was considered the BEST camera angles in a 3D game for like a full decade to come! I also think it was the first console game to use full analog control as it came out before nights in Japan.

I enjoyed Tomb Raider 1 for the first few hours I was playing it, but then I became really bored with it and stopped playing. I don't think I even made it halfway through the first game. I avoided all other Tomb Raider games like the plague and have absolutely no interest in them any more.

I liked Core better when they made Soul Star.

It was ahead of its time but I don't think the importance of big boobies to its success can be overstated.