Official Sega-16 Haul Thread. 4.0

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12-15-2012, 05:06 AM
Guntz

I've said the AES is cheaply made as well. Mind you, I too haven't heard much from other people, but maybe the average Neo Geo owner has never had a normal home console. The only console I can think of with a worse build quality is the Turbo Grafx-16, now that system is crummy. Great games, poorly made hardware.

The high price of the Neo Geo isn't a good reason for high quality parts. The MVS is very high quality, it's just the AES that stinks. Look at it this way, the MVS was arcade hardware, expense was not a concern, so build quality was good. The AES is near identical in every aspect, but given it was intended for rental (and then sale) to consumers, for use on their TV at home, SNK had to find ways to make the console less expensive. One of the many corners cut was build quality. The AES is everything ApolloBoy said.

To be fair, the MVS, like most arcade hardware, was probably not sold close to manufacturing cost, but you at least got your money's worth.
12-15-2012, 02:30 PM
TurboRotary

Interesting.. I've done a good bit of reading on various forums (including neo geo forums) and this is news to me.. I tried to specifically search to see what exactly was so bad about them but I'm not able to find anything addressing the build quality of the AES.
12-15-2012, 06:12 PM
Joe Redifer

The AES has the shittiest video circuitry in the world. Horrible, horrible composite. Even the best video on an un-modded AES is god-awful. Even the RGB has to be bypassed to be acceptable. There really is no excuse for this. The TurboGrafx-16 has a MUCH higher build quality.
12-15-2012, 06:41 PM
Thunderblaze16

Whoa! my $23 cib copy of Mystical Ninja for the snes is here!

http://i.imgur.com/UGuAR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FIujt.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

The AES has the shittiest video circuitry in the world. Horrible, horrible composite. Even the best video on an un-modded AES is god-awful. Even the RGB has to be bypassed to be acceptable. There really is no excuse for this. The TurboGrafx-16 has a MUCH higher build quality.

Things like this interest the hell out of me when I see evidence, please do tell how you believe this. Personally I have no clue.
12-15-2012, 06:42 PM
Moirai

I've always heard the neo geo CD had really good build quality, and so does the neo geo pocket/color.
12-15-2012, 06:58 PM
TurboRotary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderblaze16

Things like this interest the hell out of me when I see evidence, please do tell how you believe this. Personally I have no clue.

I'm very interested too but all I see is talk and no evidence.. I'm not saying that its not true but I would like to see the evidence for it.
12-15-2012, 07:09 PM
JFLY

Futurama: Volume 7 and Ultra Seven: The Complete Series
http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/e...ser43/jp83.jpg

Nintendo Power, Godzilla vs Biollante, and loose Ninja Ryukenden III (Ninja Gaiden III)
http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/e...ser43/jp84.jpg
12-15-2012, 07:51 PM
ApolloBoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

The AES has the shittiest video circuitry in the world. Horrible, horrible composite. Even the best video on an un-modded AES is god-awful. Even the RGB has to be bypassed to be acceptable. There really is no excuse for this.

Well, the RGB bypass is only necessary on the 9V AESes, the RGB output on the 5V AES (which is what I have) is good but a little dim. But yes, the composite video sucks which is really strange considering it uses the exact same video encoder as the model 1 Genesis. I know the composite on the latter isn't too good either, but the AES really takes the cake for the worst composite video of any console.

IMO, anyone who owns an AES owes it to themselves to mod it for S-video, it's such an incredible difference compared to composite. A Unibios mod wouldn't hurt either, I still need to do it on mine since I have an American AES which means censorship up the wazoo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlecRob

I've always heard the neo geo CD had really good build quality, and so does the neo geo pocket/color.

Not sure about the front loader NGCD but the more common top loader NGCD is as solid as a tank. Same goes for the NGP/NGPC.
12-15-2012, 08:09 PM
Joe Redifer

AES uses carts so they're ALL top-loaders. But yeah the Neo Geo CD has built-in s-video. No idea how good it is but I've never heard anything bad about it.
12-15-2012, 08:20 PM
Guntz

Here is some proof of what Redifier was saying about the poor video quality of the Neo Geo console.

http://nfggames.com/games/neorgb/

As for his opinion of the TG16 being better quality, I disagree. Sure it has better composite and sound generation, but the quality of the PCB and the case is just crap. NEC soldered the fooking RF shielding to the PCB!! SOLDERED!! They also designed the TG16 to be upside down. The board's solder side faces up, unlike 99% of everything else. They could have easily designed the board the right way up. Not to mention the single controller port, lack of a power LED, RF only, no reset button, no stereo or composite without the Turbo Booster or CD and the cheap plastic casing. The TG16 may have fun games and have unusually clean composite, but the console is very poorly designed. I hope the PC Engine and Duo systems aren't anywhere near as terrible.

The Neo Geo console is in a similar boat. The plastic shell is brittle and very prone to damage. I've seen lots of cracked AES shells. Even the Angry Video Game Nerd's Neo system is cracked. Try watching Atari Jaguar Part 1. The reset button has zero resistance and feels extremely cheap. The PCB itself isn't very high quality, as ApolloBoy said. The fooking thing can't even do S-Video, something that was high end at the time, like the *cough cough* Neo Geo console.

Quote:

IMO, anyone who owns an AES owes it to themselves to mod it for S-video, it's such an incredible difference compared to composite. A Unibios mod wouldn't hurt either, I still need to do it on mine since I have an American AES which means censorship up the wazoo.

I refuse to drill any holes in my Neo Geo. It's the only system I will not mount stuff onto. I'd be fine with an external S-Video box, maybe I'll make one some time. I don't care for a UniBIOS, water blood, hilarious engrish and limited credits suit me fine. The MVS is also just fine without a UniBIOS. I have yet to find a reason to buy one...

Actually, my AES is Japanese, so it has no censorship, red blood and moon language. I don't care about that either, doesn't bother me one bit. Some AES games offer English in the options menu. Besides, the poor english would ruin some games, like Fatal Fury 1. I'd rather not know what the characters are saying than to see Geese Howard say "Holy Cow".

Quote:

Not sure about the front loader AES but the more common top loader AES is as solid as a tank. Same goes for the NGP/NGPC.

I assume you mean the CD systems. The front loading Neo Geo CD is expensive and tends to break down more than the top loader. The top loader CD is the most common and is what most people use. The CDZ would be the best if it didn't have worse reliability than the front loader. It's also rare and expensive.
12-15-2012, 09:01 PM
ApolloBoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

AES uses carts so they're ALL top-loaders. But yeah the Neo Geo CD has built-in s-video. No idea how good it is but I've never heard anything bad about it.

I meant the NGCD, stupid me. Edited my post to reflect that now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guntz

As for his opinion of the TG16 being better quality, I disagree. Sure it has better composite and sound generation, but the quality of the PCB and the case is just crap. NEC soldered the fooking RF shielding to the PCB!! SOLDERED!! They also designed the TG16 to be upside down. The board's solder side faces up, unlike 99% of everything else. They could have easily designed the board the right way up. Not to mention the single controller port, lack of a power LED, RF only, no reset button, no stereo or composite without the Turbo Booster or CD and the cheap plastic casing. The TG16 may have fun games and have unusually clean composite, but the console is very poorly designed. I hope the PC Engine and Duo systems aren't anywhere near as terrible.

Well, I'm not sure the RF shield being soldered on isn't really a symptom of poor build quality, it's more like NEC was too cheap to shell out a few extra cents per console on screws. I will agree with you about the PCB quality, I've worked on a few and I've always wound up pulling the pads associated with the shielding, it's practically unavoidable. I never had a problem with the plastic however, it's fairly thick and takes to drilling and filing quite well in my experience. The upside down PCB is annoying and I'm pretty sure it could've easily been designed with the components side up, but oh well. The original PCE has some of the TG-16's shortcomings (RF only, no power LED or reset button, one controller port) but the PCB quality is better than the TG-16's. The original Duo suffers from bad caps but the motherboard holds up very well and after working on several, I've never ever encountered a pulled-up pad or trace. Plastic quality could be better though since it scratches easily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guntz

I refuse to drill any holes in my Neo Geo. It's the only system I will not mount stuff onto. I'd be fine with an external S-Video box, maybe I'll make one some time. I don't care for a UniBIOS, water blood, hilarious engrish and limited credits suit me fine. The MVS is also just fine without a UniBIOS. I have yet to find a reason to buy one...

That excess space in the back just asks for it, and you can have it look almost stock if you do it right. The Unibios is cool for reasons other than changing the language and avoiding censorship, you can switch between AES and MVS mode, you get hardware tests, built-in cheats, high score saving with a memory card on an AES... I've done Unibios installs for people and after playing around with it, it's really a great thing to have.
12-15-2012, 09:39 PM
Joe Redifer

Guntz, I definitely agree that the TG-16 (and PC Engine) were stupidly designed, but I'm talking about the build quality. The NES is upside down, too. Granted the NES should never be used as an example of amazing build quality. Anyway, that's not to say it couldn't have been better. The components are high quality compared to the Neo Geo at least. But the system itself should indeed have offered at least composite out without the need to buy a Booster. Well, it can if you strip some wires and know where to attach them on the expansion port. Power LED is a non-issue. Unlike the Neo, you can easily tell when it's on. Not that I would ever put an LED in my Neo Geo. I think that looks tacky as hell. Kind of like putting a blue LED in a Genesis. Just too tacky for me.
12-15-2012, 09:57 PM
ApolloBoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

Not that I would ever put an LED in my Neo Geo. I think that looks tacky as hell.

I added one in the reset button, partly because I thought it looked neat (it's not blue, don't worry!) and partly because it immediately tells you it's on since the power switch on the AES is totally black. The LED mod actually looks pretty nice in person if you do it right.
12-15-2012, 10:54 PM
TurboRotary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

Guntz, I definitely agree that the TG-16 (and PC Engine) were stupidly designed, but I'm talking about the build quality. The NES is upside down, too. Granted the NES should never be used as an example of amazing build quality. Anyway, that's not to say it couldn't have been better. The components are high quality compared to the Neo Geo at least. But the system itself should indeed have offered at least composite out without the need to buy a Booster. Well, it can if you strip some wires and know where to attach them on the expansion port. Power LED is a non-issue. Unlike the Neo, you can easily tell when it's on. Not that I would ever put an LED in my Neo Geo. I think that looks tacky as hell. Kind of like putting a blue LED in a Genesis. Just too tacky for me.

LOL.. My Genesis and Neo Geo have blue LEDs.. I think it looks good and I like the it matches the 30 other blue LEDs around my TV.
12-15-2012, 11:16 PM
Thunderblaze16

Please take the rest of this conversation in the neo geo thread, remember where you are here!