underrated graphics trick used on a few Super Nintendo and Genesis games

unfortunately it can't be done horizontally (on MD)... unless you do it in software.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

This sounds like the Bomberman logo effect that Chris Covell used in his "Bomberman" Raster Demo.

The Shinobi 3 boss wobbles both vertically and horizontally. Is this the same effect/method that Chris Covell used for the under water pics in his Wavy Graphics demo?

Would the collision have remained static, anchored to the position of the image as though it weren't wavy or could it be calculated around the wobbles?

Can it be done to sprites as well?

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Yeah, the demo CCovell did is just a horizontal raster effect (hysnc). The Shinobi 3 boss uses column scrolling on the Genesis, along with horizontal wave/shifting. Vertical column scrolling is a hardware feature on the Genesis and the snes (though double the res on the snes). Some Genesis games used it to 'tilt' the screen. Gunstar Heroes part when you're on the plane, Contra with the 'dancing' mini boss in the first level, etc. The PCE lacks this hardware feature (Cotten does it in software for the first level boss).

Collision is handled by software, so it depends on how the developer handles it in regards to special effects. All the games I've noticed don't alter the collision detection system to match the hsync effects.

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Originally Posted by tomaitheous

Yeah, the demo CCovell did is just a horizontal raster effect (hysnc). The Shinobi 3 boss uses column scrolling on the Genesis, along with horizontal wave/shifting. Vertical column scrolling is a hardware feature on the Genesis and the snes (though double the res on the snes). Some Genesis games used it to 'tilt' the screen. Gunstar Heroes part when you're on the plane, Contra with the 'dancing' mini boss in the first level, etc. The PCE lacks this hardware feature (Cotten does it in software for the first level boss).

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Yeah, I never noticed before, but I guess that the parts in those wavy demos that stretch vertically are doing so in horizontal strips. :p

I just checked out that boss in Cotton. Thats a good use of the effect. I'm guessing that the trees were sprites so that they wouldn't wiggle with the rest of the bg.

Off-topic, but anyone else but me having trouble creating a thread in this board??? I've been trying to create a thread of cartridge loading times since last night, only to get an HTTP 400 error.

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Originally Posted by Aarzak

Off-topic, but anyone else but me having trouble creating a thread in this board??? I've been trying to create a thread of cartridge loading times since last night, only to get an HTTP 400 error.

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when an error pops up, click the back arrow on the internet browser. Copy and paste your post on a notepad. Click back again, click New Thread. This time copy and paste it back into the post box and click Submit button.

Which of the bosses is it? http://shmups.classicgaming.gamespy....ier/world1.htm

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Originally Posted by Zebbe

Which of the bosses is it? http://shmups.classicgaming.gamespy....ier/world1.htm

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http://shmups.classicgaming.gamespy....el9minboss.gif

this dude

Hm yeah, I never thought much about that one. I think the stretching alien plant later in the game is more impressive. And that guy with a rotating sword. And the multi-jointed gigantic horse... Ah, there are endless impressive bosses in Alien Soldier :D.

In my oppinion the two most impressive 16-bit games are Alien Soldier for the Sega Genesis, and Space Megaforce for the Super Nintendo. Most people say Donkey Kong Country is impressive, but I just can't figure out what is so impressive about it. It's not like it's any harder to program more detailed sprites than it is to program less detailed sprites.

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Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

I think we are all thinking of different effects. Some people are thinking line scroll (Thunder Force 3 example), some are thinking about the vertical H-sync displacement (Rocket Knight, Castlevania Bloodlines, Castle of Illusion) but the effect stated in the first post indicates vertical column scrolling (the cat face boss as well as falling down the vertical part of stage 2 in Batman and Robin, the plane you fight on in Gunstar Heroes, etc).

The vertical H-sync line displacement is actually a perfect substitute for vertical scaling. It can be done both ways (downsize, upsize). If only they could do this well in the horizontal dimension, they'd have perfect scaling of backgrounds without having scaling built into the hardware and it would eat up next to no CPU.

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I'm guessing that by "vertical H-sync line displacement" you're talking about the effect from Axelay? If so, it was used for the airship sequences in FFIV for Wonderswan. I don't remember if it used line scrolling when flying horizntally, but if the SNES version's effect can't be done as-is on Genesis & PC Engine, h-syncing makes a great substitute.

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Originally Posted by dragonboy

In my oppinion the two most impressive 16-bit games are Alien Soldier for the Sega Genesis, and Space Megaforce for the Super Nintendo. Most people say Donkey Kong Country is impressive, but I just can't figure out what is so impressive about it. It's not like it's any harder to program more detailed sprites than it is to program less detailed sprites.

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Most people who play(ed) 16-bit games aren't studying the visuals to try to decipher how challenging it might have been to program in real-time effects, they're reacting naturally to the actual visuals.

Real-time special effects were often used as a substitute for animation or pre-rendered effects. Sometimes real-time works better sometimes it doesn't. In general, most people seem to be more concerned/impressed by the actual graphics/art/visuals than any kind of (perceivable or not) technical feat.

At the time Donkey Kong Country came out, cgi was all the rage(just as cgi features are today) and pre-rendered visuals combined with spurts of animation was all it took to wow people. It continued through the 32-bit generation with pre-rendered cgi in many 2D games. In cases like this, DKC really was ahead of its time. But that doesn't mean that it was a good thing.

Personally, the graphics in Genesis games I'm most impressed by are pretty much devoid of gee-whiz special effects.

TO this day many people do not understand that prerendered games are just that PRE rendered and the sytem had nothing to do with producing them. I had one kid use that game as argument in the never ending war of word battle bwtween Snes and Genesis. Using prerendering is no different then using real people in Mortal Kombat for example but most people are to dumb to realize this.

There's plenty of pre-rendering done on MD too....

Black Tiger... yes, that's all Axelay is. This effect has been done on the Genesis in Sonic 3D Blast's bonus rounds. People (as well as the magazines of the day) think it's "Mode 7" when on the SNES and completely ignore it as existing when it is on the Genesis or Turbo.

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Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

Black Tiger... yes, that's all Axelay is. This effect has been done on the Genesis in Sonic 3D Blast's bonus rounds. People (as well as the magazines of the day) think it's "Mode 7" when on the SNES and completely ignore it as existing when it is on the Genesis or Turbo.

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I haven't played Axelay since it came out and barely remember it... but Chris Covell's Axelay demo for SuperGrafx has two layers of h-synced bgs. If the real Axelay also has two layers going at once, then the SNES wouldn't have been able to do it if it really was a Mode 7 effect.