Retro reviewers lack patience

anyone else noticed this? any game that takes a while to get into, or learn, or even heaven forgive has the need to read instructions seem to get much lower ratings than pick up and play action games with very little depth.

The thing is, back in the day you would make your choice on which game to buy, spend your money, get it home and then spend a lot of time playing it, some games would be crap, others would seem bad at first but due to the fact that you'd spent your hard earned cash, and didn't have a hoard of games you'd persevere, and regularly you'd be surprised.

Whereas now, A lot of the retro reviewers seem to download 30 odd games at a time and not give a game a chance, they'll play a coupla' levels, decide a games generic before learning it's power-up systems properly and move on to the next game, this is most evident, and at it's worst on places like youtube, but I see this sort of thing here occasionally too.

Other problem with Youtube is that there are a ton of kids who never grew up with these games, talk out of their ass and try to be like the AVGN. It's pathetic really. But I sorta agree with you, but like all eras, the 16-bit era and before has TONS of trash to sift through before you find a great game. Sure there are TONS of awesome games, but there are plenty of crappy ones too. No matter how great a system is, there will always be "potboiler" games released to make a quick buck that have no real redeeming features...Aero the Acrobat springs to mind...

But on the same token, these people also only attach themselves to what is new, not to what is necessarily good. If it doesn't have HD then it's crap.

I remember reading a review of Metal Slug 3 when it was ported to the PS2 in 2004 and a critic said basically it would have been a decent game 10 years ago, but that now its dated and crap blah blah blah. I was infuriated (as much as one can be about something so irrelevant anyway) I mean a good game is a good game. Metal Slug 3 rocks, just because it wasn't for the PS2 originally doesn't mean it still doesn't rock. It's like saying a 1930's rolls-royce is shit because it doesn't have LCDs built into the headrests. It's still a god damn rolls royce, it sill is awesome. In fact, the LCD's make the new ones shit. So I completely agree with you...

The Wii's virtual console rom downloads have meant that retro games have been reviewed in modern mags and websites lately. And the reviewers tend to give them crap scores, even for classic games that ARE fun. Even reviewers who grew up on classic consoles seem to have been spoiled by 40 hour+ games, where you can finish it on near enough your first play through, rather than short games that have longevity from the fact you need to replay them a lot to finish them. Instead of comparing old games to new ones and expecting them to have similar gameplay, they should review them in a different mindset. I think its pointless reviewing classic games if you vastly prefer modern ones, let someone else do it. I'm also of the belief that playing the original games on the original hardware adds a lot to the experience too, paying £5 and not getting a physical copy of the game just isn't the same.

I think you might forget how bad people sometimes judged some of these games back in their respective time frame (90's). People would rent games and have to return them before they could ever properly figure them out, so they had a permanent bad impression. Hell, if I had never played Street Fighter II on SNES to know that its supposed to have 6 buttons I would've thought it was a stupid game (I was 10 in 95, so you can figure out I wasn't at arcades much).

Another thing people often do is confuse "hard" with "bad." People tend to miss is the goal of the game or dislike it because it isn't their kind of game. I, for one, thought RPGs were the worst games ever made, I still won't play most RPGs because to me they are the epitome of what a game SHOULDN'T be: slow, mostly story, very uninvolved game play, lots of menu work, etc. The only RPGs I can tolerate is the Square masterpieces like the better parts of the Final Fantasy Series and Chrono Trigger/Cross, and even those feel like a chore more often than they should. On the other hand, some people won't go near a game like Contra or Lightening Force because they don't like the style of play (but mostly because they suck at them :p ). People tend to all agree that Shaq Fu is the worst game ever made, but I emulated it recently just to see and to be honest, I kinda like it. Its sure as hell more enjoyable than Eternal Champions against the computer! Even some super fanboyed games like Panic! were blasted by magazine critics during their day (and I agree, that game is pointless). It was actually pretty funny to go back to my old Game Pros and see several WAY overpriced vintage games get mediocre or even bad reviews, while Shaq Fu did pretty good (4/5 fun factor I believe).

I for one did some VERY bad AVGN knockoffs (before I realized there were 6.2 billion people doing it already on youtube) with Micro Machines on the SNES and Silent Service on the NES, to which I got piles upon piles of people complaining I didn't know what I was talking about (in spite of the fact I played both games all too much growing up, it haunts me to this day). Silent Service sucks god dammit! its a boredom simulator! there is nothing fun about waiting for a gun to reload and watching gauges! its the worst game for NES and the pile of them sitting at every used game store is proof! Micro Machines is the most overrated game ever: the gameplay is ridiculously luck based and unfair, the graphics suck (for the 16-bit versions), you can't choose your car, the AI goes from retarded to impossible if you play long enough, the 2 players on 1 controller layout makes NO SENSE (UP AND DOWN TO TURN LEFT AND RIGHT, WHAT THE FUCK!?) etc, etc.

I agree, many people are too quick to judge, but with the easy accessibility of ROMs and people that would rather just talk shit and get back to playing their XBOX 360, there is little hope of it getting any better. I honestly don't mind people that make legitimate complaints in old games, sometimes it can be really funny, the problem is that people don't have any sense of comedic timing or what is and isn't funny. I think the AVGN is hilarious when he has something to genuinely complain about, but thats only 1 out of every 10 reviews, the rest are just bad toilet humor. His Superman (not Superman 64, which was crap) was the funniest one in a long time. Also, the AVGN annoys me when he deals with systems outside of the Nintendo heritage because he doesn't fully know or understand them and makes judgement calls based on incomplete information. You can all thank him for the droves of people that think the Sega CD is all FMV games and the 32X is just Primal Rage and a bad Doom port (which is a very good console port for its time, way better than the unplayable SNES version I suffered through as a kid). Plus its way unfair that people just donate shit to him, he has a bigger collection than probably most of the people on this forum, including a Neo Geo AES (that bastard!).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by playgen

The Wii's virtual console rom downloads have menat that retro games have been reviewed in modern mags and websites lately. And the reviewers tend to give them crap scores, even for classic games that ARE fun. Even reviewers who grew up on classic consoles seem to have been spoiled by 40 hour+ games, where you can finish it on near enough your first play through, rather than short games that have longevity from the fact you need to replay them a lot to finish them. Instead of comparing old games to new ones and expecting them to have similar gameplay, they should review thjem in a different mindset. I'm also of the belief that playing the original games on the original hardware adds a lot to the experience too, paying £5 and not getting a physical copy of the game just isn't the same.

---

Well, I see your point, but I think what they are trying to do is say "is this game as fun today as it was back then?" Obviously if they gave the original Mario Bros a 10/10 (as it may have gotten back in 1985) kids would be gutting magazine reviewers left and right saying "what the hell is this shit!" So, they have to keep in mind how well it will appeal to a newer gamer that didn't play it back in the day. I bet if you let most kids under the age of 10 that have lots of experience on a PS2 or newer console, they wouldn't play Mario for more than 5 minutes before they'd ask for their Jak and Daxter back. On the other hand, games like Turtles in Time has yet to have a superior sequel (spiritual or direct), as does Street Fighter II Turbo/SCE, Streets of Rage 2/3, Genesis Sonic series, etc. More than anything they just want to let you know that you're getting your moneys worth, because people that are playing these games for nostalgia don't give two fucks what a reviewer says, they just want to play some goddamn NES Tennis (I love it and I don't know why). Also, yes, I hate the VC prices, NES should be $1, SNES and Genesis $2, and N64 $3. ITS AN ELECTRONIC DOWNLOAD, COME ON!

Who cares about the children anyways? They can have their PS2 and I'll be off in the corner playing Terminator and enjoying it. If anything a lot of games have gotten better with age. I remember renting Doom and thinking it sucked because I couldn't figure out what to do. A few years later I was tearing it up harsh because I had the patience needed to solve the puzzles and enjoy the atmosphere. Now even the worst games are ones I can usually get into to a certain degree. Usually I'll come out thinking 'hey, that game wasn't half bad after all', and I'm talking about games like Back to the Future for the NES.

I also find that many new people are completely clueless but don't realize it as they rely on misinformation on the Internet to "educate" them about the past. Granted, that sort of ignorance and information erosion is characteristic of just about anything throughout history, but I find it irksome to see people post things which just aren't true and beyond the scope of their experience. I agree that, generally speaking, modern video game fans are too quick to think that they are all knowledgeable about a game after just spending a brief moment with the title, never bothering to read through the manual or spend some time learning the game system and seeing it through the end. Unfortunately, it's not just the YouTube idiots but many of those in the industry as well. :(

Earlier this year I downloaded some Genesis games on an emulator, but a few months later I deleted my emulator. For some reason the games don't seem as fun on a computer compared to on a console. It's either because the feel of holding an actual controller in your hands and pushing in the cartridge, or because you feel a little bit guilty because you didn't pay for it, or a combination of the two. After I get a job and have my own money I am buying a real Sega Genesis.

yea I can understand.

today I would never invest 50+ hours in Abrahams BattleTank for the megadrive. But I did long ago and I loved the game. Same for LHX Attack Chopper :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonboy

Earlier this year I downloaded some Genesis games on an emulator, but a few months later I deleted my emulator. For some reason the games don't seem as fun on a computer compared to on a console. It's either because the feel of holding an actual controller in your hands and pushing in the cartridge, or because you feel a little bit guilty because you didn't pay for it, or a combination of the two. After I get a job and have my own money I am buying a real Sega Genesis.

---

Why was I refering to myself in second person?

Why are you quoting yourself?

Re: kids liking only the new consoles, our two kids (7 and 9) both love all my old game systems, from the Atari 2600 up through the Genesis. Genesis is the current fave, as I've just beefed up my collection considerably. They can't get enough of Streetfighter II: Special Champion Edition, Toejam & Earl, Rocket Knight Adventures, Gunstar Heroes, Sonic 1 & 2, etc. etc. etc. Oh, and of course they like their Wii too, but it doesn't get played NEARLY as much as the NES and Genesis! :-D

There may be hope for the future...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nunzio

Who cares about the children anyways? They can have their PS2 and I'll be off in the corner playing Terminator and enjoying it. If anything a lot of games have gotten better with age. I remember renting Doom and thinking it sucked because I couldn't figure out what to do. A few years later I was tearing it up harsh because I had the patience needed to solve the puzzles and enjoy the atmosphere. Now even the worst games are ones I can usually get into to a certain degree. Usually I'll come out thinking 'hey, that game wasn't half bad after all', and I'm talking about games like Back to the Future for the NES.

---

I know, I actually kind of like BTTF, even though it doesn't have a damn thing to do with the movie. It has a very Atari 2600 charm to it. Same here with Doom also, I used to get super scared every time a monster would show up and make that loud grunt/snarl and after a while I couldn't handle it anymore, but now I find it fun in a different way than any other FPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonboy

Earlier this year I downloaded some Genesis games on an emulator, but a few months later I deleted my emulator. For some reason the games don't seem as fun on a computer compared to on a console. It's either because the feel of holding an actual controller in your hands and pushing in the cartridge, or because you feel a little bit guilty because you didn't pay for it, or a combination of the two. After I get a job and have my own money I am buying a real Sega Genesis.

---

For some reason emulators just aren't as fun. I have a USB gamepad thats basically a generic PS1 pad, but playing on the computer isn't fun for some reason. Now, maybe if I had a dedicated game computer hooked up to the TV it would be a little different, but there's something about knowing you are playing it 100% the way its meant to that makes it better. Kind of like seeing the grand canyon instead of looking at a video or picture of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WaverBoy

Re: kids liking only the new consoles, our two kids (7 and 9) both love all my old game systems, from the Atari 2600 up through the Genesis. Genesis is the current fave, as I've just beefed up my collection considerably. They can't get enough of Streetfighter II: Special Champion Edition, Toejam & Earl, Rocket Knight Adventures, Gunstar Heroes, Sonic 1 & 2, etc. etc. etc. Oh, and of course they like their Wii too, but it doesn't get played NEARLY as much as the NES and Genesis! :-D

There may be hope for the future...

---

FWIW, I used to play my cousin's 2600 as a kid even after they got their Genesis. Fun games are fun no matter how old they get. Once your realize there is more to games than graphics, you start to appreciate the older games more. The same can be said for some older movies and music as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

Why are you quoting yourself?

---

To ask myself why I was refering to myself in second person.

Let me know when you post the answer.

Joe, your rep bar turned Black! Its from all the burns you give out

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonboy

Why was I refering to myself in second person?

---

Because you were asking if other people if they had similar expiriences while at the same time you were asking the question about yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonboy

Because you were asking if other people if they had similar expiriences while at the same time you were asking the question about yourself.

---

Thankyou

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonboy

Thankyou

---

Your welcome!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nunzio

Who cares about the children anyways? They can have their PS2 and I'll be off in the corner playing Terminator and enjoying it. If anything a lot of games have gotten better with age. I remember renting Doom and thinking it sucked because I couldn't figure out what to do. A few years later I was tearing it up harsh because I had the patience needed to solve the puzzles and enjoy the atmosphere. Now even the worst games are ones I can usually get into to a certain degree. Usually I'll come out thinking 'hey, that game wasn't half bad after all', and I'm talking about games like Back to the Future for the NES.

---

Yeah The Terminator for the Genesis was great. I believe that Doom should only be played on the PC, the SNES port was pure bosh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonboy

Earlier this year I downloaded some Genesis games on an emulator, but a few months later I deleted my emulator. For some reason the games don't seem as fun on a computer compared to on a console. It's either because the feel of holding an actual controller in your hands and pushing in the cartridge, or because you feel a little bit guilty because you didn't pay for it, or a combination of the two. After I get a job and have my own money I am buying a real Sega Genesis.

---

You know, I say that all the time. Nothing beats a game on real hardware with the real controller. Emulators are good when you want to play a game you don't have. Playing a game on a keyboard leaves something to be desired...

I'm more happy to play the games on the Mega Drive than the PC simply because it feels more natural.

Unless I can get it emulated perfectly on DS, the reduced screen size does not bother me plus it is more portable and probably has better battery life than the nomad.

The main reason I do use emulators is simply because JenesisDS cannot handle certain games properly (I look at you Road Rash >.>).

Though the main games I do download are usually games I already own or have owned in the past (Shining Force was a blast, too bad we had to end it back to the owner 3000km away), or download to burn to Sega CD (Not that I have had much luck with that, the only game I can get to work is Sonic CD. I don't exactly have the money).

But back to the point, yes I do agree that many reviewers have too much patience, but the thing is, they are usually completely unbiased about anything about the game, its not completely a good thing but it will stop people giving games a simple 10/10 for really console pushing games that have average game play (Though thankfully it seems that the console pushing developers also put effort into making their games good). On the flip side, if the game is bad looking but the underlying game play is good (Mega Lo Mania can be an example of this) than they jump the gun and give it a bad score purely based on the graphics and because of that can't be screwed figuring out the game.

Woo, some first post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheRollingStoner

You know, I say that all the time. Nothing beats a game on real hardware with the real controller. Emulators are good when you want to play a game you don't have. Playing a game on a keyboard leaves something to be desired...

---

Well, you can buy an excellent PSone style USB controller for $10 (Logitech Precision), thats what I use, though it does get annoying with games that require/work best with a 6 button layout.

You can also get one for Sega controllers. I paid $15 for mine. Now I can play Metal Slug with a 6 Button. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jesus.arnold

Whereas now, A lot of the retro reviewers seem to download 30 odd games at a time and not give a game a chance, they'll play a coupla' levels, decide a games generic before learning it's power-up systems properly and move on to the next game, this is most evident, and at it's worst on places like youtube, but I see this sort of thing here occasionally too.

---

Sensible answer: because people play games differently. My father drives me insane because he plays games purely for the action, whereas I'll play a game with subtitles on so I don't miss anything. It is possible to play videogames the wrong way!

More likely answer: if it's about videogames and it's on Youtube, it's neither funny or original and thus worth ignoring.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elusive

Sensible answer: because people play games differently. My father drives me insane because he plays games purely for the action, whereas I'll play a game with subtitles on so I don't miss anything. It is possible to play videogames the wrong way!

---

That actually reminds me of when I was a kid and I used to play Desert Commander on the NES with my old man. I used to practice in one player and it was hardcore. I guess it is sort of like Herzog Zwei, it can be fun on one player but when the guy is sitting next to you it becomes epic.

I think a lot of reviewers who are sitting in their parent's basement playing everything on a emu by themselves lose the general idea that you are supposed to have someone on controller 2 in Streets of Rage. Then they focus on how much everything could be better and nitpick instead of screaming at player 2 to to pick them up so they can drop kick some mother. I think that Xbox live and all that crap has also ruined this for old games, people have forgotten what it is like to go over to your friends house to throw down in Mortal Kombat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes

Well, you can buy an excellent PSone style USB controller for $10 (Logitech Precision), thats what I use, though it does get annoying with games that require/work best with a 6 button layout.

---

Yeah I know, I'm a purist, so I would rather play it on the actual system on a TV rather than a monitor. That's just how I roll.

The pixels look a little bit different on the tv compared to on a monitor. On a monitor the pixels are perfect squares, but on a tv the pixels overlap eachother horizontally a little and there is a small amount of space between scanlines.