How do you turn off CD based videogames?

This came up in another forum I visit.

Question is: how do you guys turn the Dreamcast OFF?

I always - in my entire life actually - hit the POWER button, and only then press OPEN to take the disc out.

I've recently been told that's not the correct procedure. In the US DC manual it's stated that you should actually open the lid first and only then power off the machine.
By the way it's put, i believe this would actually extend to all other top loader CD consoles.

I'm feeling rather :confused: by this, because this changes everything I do about powering up my dear video-games.

I would rather stick to what works. "If it ain't broke don't fix it", If what both you and I have done with our CD based game consoles for years and hasn't damaged our sofware or hardware, I wouldn't chance something it with something new. The only system I know of that doesn't do harm to the system or games when you open the disc slot during play is the xbox and 360. You can turn it off, remove game, or you can press the eject button, the xbox restarts and opens the tray. The xbox is the ONLY (To my knowledge) system that does this. My friend almost lost a PS1 this way, no joke, no lie.

I wouldn't worry about it. After all, manuals are *known* to have misprints and misinformation.

I only really do this with the dreamcast

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Originally Posted by Kollision

I've recently been told that's not the correct procedure. In the US DC manual it's stated that you should actually open the lid first and only then power off the machine.
By the way it's put, i believe this would actually extend to all other top loader CD consoles.

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no, that's stupid. What if you don't want to change the game? Do you really think an engineer could be that stupid as to expect everyone to unnecessarily pop the top, turn it off, and then close the lid EVERY time? What they probably meant was that if you were changing the game you should pop the lid while its still on so it will stop the disc (or does it? I can't remember if the dreamcast stops a disc when you open the lid).

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Originally Posted by sega fan

I would rather stick to what works. "If it ain't broke don't fix it", If what both you and I have done with our CD based game consoles for years and hasn't damaged our sofware or hardware, I wouldn't chance something it with something new. The only system I know of that doesn't do harm to the system or games when you open the disc slot during play is the xbox and 360. You can turn it off, remove game, or you can press the eject button, the xbox restarts and opens the tray. The xbox is the ONLY (To my knowledge) system that does this. My friend almost lost a PS1 this way, no joke, no lie.

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WHAT? first of all, turning on an XBOX 360 is going to cause red ring of death and disc scratches just to start things off. Second of all, how do you get that ejecting without powering it off damages the games? Any pop top system that clamps the disc in place (PS1, Dreamcast) just spins freely when you open the lid until it stops and all slot load systems I've dealt with stops the disc before ejecting. The one system I wouldn't open while powered on is the Model 2 Sega CD because the lid is what clamps the disc down and it will tilt to one side and do crazy things if you open it while playing.

Engineers can come up with some pretty stupid ideas...

automatic seat belts
gullwing doors
apple pippen
the first DC-10 aircraft had a completely integrated hydraulic system, so if one area failed, the entire aircraft lost hydraulic power, causing at least one massive air accident
the list goes on...

It would not be too far fetched to come up with some strange procedure to change disks or properly turn off a game system.

I believe, IIRC, I'm too lazy to check my Saturn manual at the moment, but I believe Sega recommends that one reset the Saturn, then pop the top and remove the disk, then turn off the system. Supposedly, this reduces wear on the laser/motor...or something.

Edit: From the Sega Saturn Manual:
From the manual:

Ending a Session

1. Press the RESET button while holding down Button A.
2. Press the OPEN button to open the CD door and take out the CD.

Note: Before you remove the CD, check that the CD Control screen appears (which means the CD has stopped spinning and is safe to remove from the Sega Staurn)

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It says this allows the system to reset properly, allows the disk to stop spinning, and reduces wear.

This is perhaps a procedure to avoid damage to the disks themselves, but it may very well be a good way to keep all the moving parts in good shape.

They are correct.

Press the open button so the lazer realigns at its starting position and then turn off the DC. If you just press the power button then the lazer reader stops instantly instead of returning to its starting position putting a strain on the machine.

I just found this out recently as well.

They say if you shut it down properly it can save the life of your entire console for years to come.

Hope this helps.

What difference would it make whether it realigns itself at startup or when turning it off. Either way it realigns itself? I don't see the logic.

I know but thats what they say.

I'm not taking any chances.

I mean what are we going to do if our DC's burn out prematurely :?

Build another one out of sticks and mud in the backyard? :) j/k

One allows the motor to re-align itself slowly at the machines own programed pace (basically) when you reset it. If you turn it off instantly, the motor jerks to a stop, so it is getting more stress, then the motor has to reset itself anyway upon powerup which means its automatically doing more work. If it stops suddenly, it is having more stress put on it.

My best analogy is like how some people put a car into gear without coming to a complete stop (reversing, still moving back and shoving it into drive/1st/whatever). You are putting far more stress on the transmission than if you came to a complete stop and put it into gear.

Not at all the same movements, but the same basic premise. But I'm no engineer.

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Originally Posted by Tanegashima

One allows the motor to re-align itself slowly at the machines own programed pace (basically) when you reset it. If you turn it off instantly, the motor jerks to a stop, so it is getting more stress, then the motor has to reset itself anyway upon powerup which means its automatically doing more work. If it stops suddenly, it is having more stress put on it.

My best analogy is like how some people put a car into gear without coming to a complete stop (reversing, still moving back and shoving it into drive/1st/whatever). You are putting far more stress on the transmission than if you came to a complete stop and put it into gear.

Not at all the same movements, but the same basic premise. But I'm no engineer.

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Couldn't have said it better myself.

Oh wait? I did!

If I new about it 8 years ago I would have done it everytime.

I never trust CD-based video game systems so I always cut the wires to my fuse box to make sure they never reboot when I don't want to play anymore.

It should not really matter wether you have "move laser to default position" before or after power On...
Do you ever open the lid of your MCD2 before power off ? don't really think so, and they aren't very dead yet because of that... ?

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Originally Posted by Tanegashima

One allows the motor to re-align itself slowly at the machines own programed pace (basically) when you reset it. If you turn it off instantly, the motor jerks to a stop, so it is getting more stress, then the motor has to reset itself anyway upon powerup which means its automatically doing more work. If it stops suddenly, it is having more stress put on it.

My best analogy is like how some people put a car into gear without coming to a complete stop (reversing, still moving back and shoving it into drive/1st/whatever). You are putting far more stress on the transmission than if you came to a complete stop and put it into gear.

Not at all the same movements, but the same basic premise. But I'm no engineer.

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So the system has some sort of control over the speed of the motor? So it is not just on/off?

On a multi-speed drive, yes.

Single speed drives, like the Neo Geo CD probably wouldn't be affected (i'm guessing...) but others like the Saturn, Playstation, DC etc. would be.

Ahh interesting. So the a better analogy might be don't shift from 5th into 1st.

yeah, exactly. Though, I doubt the result is quite as horrific as that could be :D But this is all inference on my part, I could be totally wrong.

speaking of which, I almost got into a motorcycle accident today...I was taking a corner in 5th gear (of all things), I thought I was in 2nd, rounded the corner and stalled the bike. The rear wheel locked up, but I got the clutch in just before I floundered and got the bike up just in time.

What a rookie mistake...whew...

Sounds like you got lucky and didn't have to learn the hard way.

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Originally Posted by Tanegashima

Engineers can come up with some pretty stupid ideas...

automatic seat belts
gullwing doors
apple pippen
the first DC-10 aircraft had a completely integrated hydraulic system, so if one area failed, the entire aircraft lost hydraulic power, causing at least one massive air accident
the list goes on...

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all of those things were from marketing dumbasses, not engineers (except the DC-10). There's a big difference between assessing all possible points of failure in a hydraulic system and realizing that most people aren't going to eject a game before turning their system off. What the instructions are probably implying is that you should hit reset WHEN YOU WANT TO CHANGE GAMES, not just turn the system off. I have NEVER hit reset or any of that other nonsense before powering off a system and I have never had a damged game, DVD, or CD nor has ANY CD/DVD player ever failed me in any way to date. Everyone has this idea that CD drives are super fragile and wear out from normal use, but the fact is that all CD drives I have ever seen fail were from user abuse/neglect by either letting it fill with foreign debris or simply getting the lens dirty. Now, on the other hand, I DO reset my PS2 before ejecting the game, but that's the only tray load video game system I currently own, as for my pop tops, its power off, let the disc stop, put in a new game.

NOTE: The Manual says "ENDING A SESSION" not switching games...why would they suggest you power it down if you planned on switching games?

We are just trying to find a logic behind the instructions...which appears to be to reduce wear. For all we know, a system may last 10 years longer because of proper care vs. your way. Or it may make no difference whatsoever. Either way, there is a procedure, there is a logic of sorts behind it. We have extrapolated said procedure, found said logic and concluded that whomever designed said system must have had a reason for it.


Otherwise, the question has been answered...there is indeed a procedure. Whether or not that procedure is dumb to you is irrelevant, because you didn't design the system. There is a procedure, that is a fact. You might think it's dumb, but you have no basis for that reasoning. We have what Sega tells us to do and what you tell us to do. Whether you think an 'engineer' would come up with some seemingly pointless procedure is impossible, well then fine, good for you.

I'm going to go with Sega on this one.

My DC breakdowns didn't happen because of the disc drive. I usually just power it down and remove the disc, but I have done it the other way as well.

So thats bad to be going in reverse in a manual transmission, then just putting it into 1st and going? I seriously do that like everyday. Thanks for telling me, my transmition is getting pretty bad as it is. Fuck I need to sell my beater and get a newer beater

Its hard on ANY transmission, you should never be still moving backwards when you put it into gear at all, whether its from reverse to Drive/1st gear or neutral. The car should be at a dead stop when you go from reverse to 1st or drive. This applies to both a manual and automatic tranny.

Though I'd say its even harder on the automatic ones, because some get confused and the car can stall...I hate automatics anyway...

manual transmissions ftw!

My mom has had a manual for years, she has driven them forever but I swear has no idea how to do it.

All I ever hear when she drives is the gears crunching, she pops the clutch like crazy and the worst is as soon as she is up to speed she goes through all the gears. I mean, she'll be driving 40mph and be in 6th gear! The whole damn car shudders and she just keeps on going.

I weep for that car, I really do. But she won't hear of it, she knows what she's doing...

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Originally Posted by Tanegashima

NOTE: The Manual says "ENDING A SESSION" not switching games...why would they suggest you power it down if you planned on switching games?

We are just trying to find a logic behind the instructions...

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Remember how it says not to use rubbing alcohol on the back of NES games? yeah. There's no point "finding logic" because there is none. They would suggest to power down because you have to reset it some sort of way after changing games, otherwise most systems will just give an error message and ask you to reinsert the disc or just freeze altogether. I would like to see a scan of this documentation to see EXACTLY how it is worded and how it is placed on the page. I think by now if this made any real sense it would be common practice by now some 15 years after the advent of common CD-ROM games. Remember, its usually NOT the engineer or designer writing the manual because A) most engineers can't make a coherent sentence (lol) and B) they have more important things to do.

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Originally Posted by Tanegashima

Though I'd say its even harder on the automatic ones, because some get confused and the car can stall...I hate automatics anyway...

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not true. In a manual, when you go from reverse to *any forward gear* you are immediately and forceably stopping the car with the gear opposite of the way its supposed to travel. Now, at the same time, if you were to try that at too fast of a speed it simply wouldn't go in (going to reverse instead of 6th is a common problem with my car because there isn't really any lockout, but all that happens is a "grruurururr" until you notice that's not 6th). In an automatic, all of the drive power is handled by hydraulic pressure in the torque converter, so, below a certain speed/RPM/throttle position you are performing neglible wear even if you are slightly in reverse motion. However, stopping with the brakes is still the best way in any situation since it will still stress mounts and other parts otherwise.

EDIT: finally found the damn manual:

exact page:

http://photos.imageevent.com/gamesca...ual%20_15_.jpg

whole thing:

http://www.thocp.net/software/games/...ast_manual.pdf

As you can CLEARLY see (unless you are retarded), this manual was written for the lowest common denominator user that has never seen an electronic device before. When they say "end session" they are assuming you want to remove the disc, at which point they suggest you pop the lid and wait for the disc to stop as a safety precaution because otherwise if you powered off first it would continue to spin at a "dangerously" high speed that could cause injury to a retard dumb enough to stick his hand in there before it slowed down. The only reason this procedure is included is so the disc will stop (faster) to prevent injury, not some nonsense bullshit about laser longevity or any of that crap. If you still insist this procedure has something to do with system longevity, by all means continue and from time to time I'll think back on it and laugh that somewhere you are probably ejecting your game for absolutely no reason because you chose to follow a manual to a "T" rather than use common sense and basic logic.

Sega CD model 2's don't have a locking spindle like that of PlayStations and Dreamcasts.. So those MUST be powered off first for the disc to slow down.

Dreamcast spins the disc pretty fast, and opening the lid first will actually "brake" the spindle motor (it reverses the direction for a very SHORT time to stop the disc rotation). In the end, meh, anyway works.

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Originally Posted by evildragon

Sega CD model 2's don't have a locking spindle like that of PlayStations and Dreamcasts.. So those MUST be powered off first for the disc to slow down.

Dreamcast spins the disc pretty fast, and opening the lid first will actually "brake" the spindle motor (it reverses the direction for a very SHORT time to stop the disc rotation). In the end, meh, anyway works.

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thank you

see, we agree sometimes evildragon :ok:

I like to see how the disc still rotates after opening the CD lid on MCD2 :p

The really fun thing is to have the MCD2 run the disc without the lid closed, the motor spins up, but the disc don't and the drive tries hard to find the track again, but it does find it and works until another spin-up where the process continues.

I believe that would be Newtons law of gravity at work there. ;)

In optical drives aren't the motors brushless, and thus have a life MUCH longer than the laser anyway?

We should be worried about the lasers much more than those motors.

WELL YOU LEARN SOMETHING EVERYDAY! I WOULD HAVE NEVER THOUGHT TO OPEN THE LID TO BRING THE LENS TO THE SAID POSITION. NOW I WILL SPREAD THE TECHGOSPEL!

all caps suck...

And I see no point in doing it... it doesn't matter if the laser moves to that position before or after power off...

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Originally Posted by airthrow

In optical drives aren't the motors brushless, and thus have a life MUCH longer than the laser anyway?

We should be worried about the lasers much more than those motors.

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the lasers are fine, its not the beam that is damaged in most cases, its the parts around the beam that get messed up (the tracking devices that focus the beam). Either way, its only abuse (dirt, physical damage) that causes these things to fail in any short amount of time. I have NEVER had a CD/DVD player in my immediate family fail because we don't abuse our stuff, not even my dad's 80's CD player has failed, in fact, it works better than most people's 1 year old CD players.

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Originally Posted by seismiczonk

WELL YOU LEARN SOMETHING EVERYDAY! I WOULD HAVE NEVER THOUGHT TO OPEN THE LID TO BRING THE LENS TO THE SAID POSITION. NOW I WILL SPREAD THE TECHGOSPEL!

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I hope you're being sarcastic, I have already mentioned in this thread how retarded the idea is. Either way, PLEASE do not start telling people this nonsense about opening the lid every time you want to turn off the system, it is incorrect bullshit to the max.

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Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes

I hope you're being sarcastic, I have already mentioned in this thread how retarded the idea is. Either way, PLEASE do not start telling people this nonsense about opening the lid every time you want to turn off the system, it is incorrect bullshit to the max.

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*concentrates for a moment*

...I sense no sarcasm there.

Damn.
I don't care about it.
I tried to do the procedure on the Dreamcast, and no way I'm sticking to it. I don't like the noise I hear when I open the lid with the thing powered up, so the good'ol POWER button is enough to power it off.

If it ever fails me I'll buy another one. :?

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Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes

I hope you're being sarcastic, I have already mentioned in this thread how retarded the idea is. Either way, PLEASE do not start telling people this nonsense about opening the lid every time you want to turn off the system, it is incorrect bullshit to the max.

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Serious post of the year! This cat would like to congratulate you!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...erious_cat.jpg

I'm not sure what the proper way is to power down, so I just cut the power to the house when I finish playing.

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Originally Posted by Rusty Venture

I'm not sure what the proper way is to power down, so I just cut the power to the house when I finish playing.

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I believe that's worthy of a little rep. The best tip this thread has seen so far, I believe

Everytime a Dreamcast dies because of being shut off the wrong way an Angel losses its wings.

Remember this. Remember it well....