Knuckles Chaotix...Chaotix

Knuckles Chaotix is being an asshole.

At first, the intro would play fine and the title screen would come up with graphical garbage in the background but fine in the foreground (though the text was usually garbled to some extent), then the save screen would be garbled, and then it would basically freeze, sometimes making it sort of to the segway to gameplay (when knuckles spins in).

Then, I cleaned the pins on the bottom of the 32X and emery board sanded the game and the pin connector in the 32X and the best I can do is perfect title screen and save menu and then freezes right as its going into gameplay (background loads and everything comes up and then BAM freeze).

I opened up the game and it looks perfect, no corrosion anywhere I can see. The 32X plays every other game I have (Metal Head, Tempo, Star Wars Arcade, Shadow Squadron, Doom) with no problems. Does Knuckles Chaotix use a different feature that no other 32X game listed uses? There are so many possibilities I really don't know where to begin, but I've narrowed it down to this list of most likely candidates:

1. The pin connector in the model 2 Genesis

2. The cartridge edge on the 32X (bottom)

3. The pin connector in the 32X (where the game goes)

4. The ribbon cables inside the 32X (which seem to be straight and secure, but you never know. Also, one has more of the pins exposed than the other, is that normal? by that I mean its like just the tops of the pins on one ribbon cable and about a 1/2~1 cm showing on the other)

5. The game itself

With so many passthroughs its hard to tell where the problem is coming from, and just because other 32X games work doesn't mean it can't be the pins that other games don't use causing the problem. Also, I need to know if its the game or the 32X so I know which one needs to be replaced. I figure its actually probably cheaper for a cord free 32X than another copy of Chaotix, but either way I want to be sure before I go buy another of either one.

Help me TmEE-wan Kenobi, you're my only hope...unless someone knows Steve Snake and would like to give him a heads up for me.

edit: oh, I guess I should also mention that the sound test menu works fine and the sound plays even after the game freezes, if that makes any difference.

Also, would Shadow Squadron, Doom, or Star Wars Arcade work as donor carts if all else fails? I have duplicates of SS, Doom, and SWA that came with Knuckles Chaotix in a lot (I already have those 3 CIB) and I would be happy to either swap the chips or snag capacitors if that would fix the game seeing as SS, Doom, and SWA aren't even worth eBaying. Just an FYI, my prefered order of scrapping is Doom, SWA, SS because I think Shadow Squadron is the rarest and also my personal favorite of the bunch (and the one my 32X playing friend doesn't have yet to my knowledge), so if Doom will cut the mustard I would prefer to butcher it since its almost completely worthless.

What's your setup like?

genesis with 32X alone? Or genesis with 32X/Sega CD ?

If it's the Genesis/32X alone, do you have this installed in your genesis (it attaches to the side expansion port where the SCD normally attaches):

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/2915/002hk0.th.jpghttp://img354.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif




I've noticed that if this little doohickey which came with the 32X originally is not installed on a stand alone Genesis, funny things have happened (just anecdotal, not a scientific fact).

Otherwise, i've noticed if you have the Sega CD attached, be sure all three are plugged in when you play a 32X cart, I've had weird things happen if all three are not plugged in.

never seen one of those, ever. Right now its just the 32X and the Genesis 2, I have the Sega CD hooked up to the high definition model 1. Either way, I don't think that's it, I'm convinced its a hookup problem somewhere, its just a matter of game vs. system. Also, if other games work fine without it, I can't see why it would only be knuckles chaotix that suffers from that attachment not being there.

I'm just saying I've had similar freeze issues when said connections didn't exist. Seriously, just give it a shot, try hooking your 32X up to your Genesis/Sega CD setup and plug all three in. It MIGHT work, if it doesn't, did you lose anything beside 10 minutes?

Strangely enough, the 32X came with two sets of instructions, one in glossy white and another in orange. The glossy white instructions include directions on how to install the 32X into the CDX and even have a description of a special spacer exclusively for the CDX. These instructions do not mention the side attachment I have pictured. HOWEVER, the orange supplemental which claims the 32X will not work with the CDX has the side attachment I have pictured and recommends it be installed on a stand alone Genesis.

^ Nice DMC DeLorean!

Yeah I saw a web site showing that side port terminator thing (or whatever you wish to call it) and it said it came with the 32X and you needed to use it if you didn't have a SCD to prevent some glitches! I've never actually seen one before either! I wonder if it's only needed for first gen M1's or something? You know a certain mainboard or only the early 32X systems needed them?

I have vowed that I will own a drivable one as soon as I can afford it...I really love those cramped two seaters...It will complement my Datsun...which needs a full restoration...

32X is a mean bastard, and I can always blame the ribbons and their connectors... I did this to my 32X's ribbons : split them, and put a piece of paper between them and press them back in... needs a lot of force but you can be sure that the ribbons won't cause you headache anymore :)
Also there's a slim chance that the game has some bit-rot happening in the ROM, you could dump the cart if you have a MCD and Mask of Destiny's Sega CD transfer suite cable and utils to rule this one out.

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Originally Posted by TmEE

32X is a mean bastard, and I can always blame the ribbons and their connectors... I did this to my 32X's ribbons : split them, and put a piece of paper between them and press them back in... needs a lot of force but you can be sure that the ribbons won't cause you headache anymore :)
Also there's a slim chance that the game has some bit-rot happening in the ROM, you could dump the cart if you have a MCD and Mask of Destiny's Sega CD transfer suite cable and utils to rule this one out.

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Knuckles Chaotix was mask rom though, wasn't it? To my knowledge only flash ROMs suffer bit rot. Plus, add to that it was a ?95? release and the game save file is still on there from the original owner. I'll try reinserting the ribbon cable and then do the whole Sega CD razmatazz. I just really hope I can get it working because I really don't think the game is to blame.

You opened it? I'm just wondering, is Knuckles Chaotix battery-backedor not (for the saving)?

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Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

You opened it? I'm just wondering, is Knuckles Chaotix battery-backedor not (for the saving)?

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no, lol, I admire your tenacity though ;)

I believe the saving is done by some sort of RAM chip as that's the only thing I saw besides the 2 main game chips. I'm assuming its the same thing as NBA JAM and the like. For some reason I don't find many Genesis games with save batteries, they all seem to use some other (usually better) method.

Oh, and back at Tanegashima (seriously, wtf does your SN mean?), I was looking around online and I can't find any eBay auctions with that side part or any 32X setup guides that mentioned it. Are you sure its even for the 32X? Where did you get it from? Is its functionality even described anywhere? I'm racking my brain here trying to figure out what it is and how it could possibly affect the 32X's functionality. On the plus side, one 32X "repair guide" claims up and down that any gameplay problems are 100% the ribbon cable's fault and that if it doesn't work after reseating them...reseat them again...and again. I figure it couldn't hurt and seeing as my 32X was rescued from the bottom of a junk heap of non-working games and other crap at a computer repair store (that sells games on the side), I wouldn't be surprised that the ribbon cables might need a little TLC.

http://www.sonic-cult.org/articles/32x/

Have you tried the Sega CD yet?? I mean, wouldn't it be easier to just give the Sega CD a shot before you go through the trouble of resetting the ribbon cables?


I got it with the 32X in a sealed box, it came from Sega, with the 32X. Of course it came with the 32X, the 32X instructions wouldn't tell me to attach it to the Genesis if it did not come with the 32X now would it? I do not have a scanner, but I assure you that this is the case. I will take a photo if it will work soon enough. Most people don't buy 32X systems complete either, and most have no idea this part even exists. But it do.

What does your SN mean?

http://www.trocadero.com/MONTES/item...7862store.html

There, that's what my SN means...


IT is very important to note, however, my 32X which was brand new in box came with two sets of instructions, the originals on white glossy and a supplemental on orange regular paper. The originals contain instructions on how to set up the 32X with the CDX, including pictures of a proposed CDX/32X adapter sleeve. These glossy instructions do not mention this side adapter thingy along with included parts. The supplemental does mention/picture the side thingy and also has a huge warning 32X IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH SEGA CDX!. No doubt, the side thingy was included later after potential bugs showed up on people who had a stand alone genesis. Here is a picture PROVING its existence. You can't read it, but the diagram should at least be proof enough. The instructions say this should be done with a Genesis model I as well.

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/2606/001bk4.th.jpghttp://img224.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

Wow, I never saw that little extension piece until I found one rotting in my friend's basement a few years ago when I was helping him move. I bought a 32x back when stores were clearancing them, mine has the double instructions but never came with the little extension piece. I occasionally had freezes and other problems, but I also had a Sega CD, so I don't know whether that connector would really have made a difference or not. Nowadays, whenever I haul out a 32x for one reason or another, I never have any issues using a 32x, and I still don't use that extension.

as far as using an emory voard on the contacts- that's kinda bad. Use a pink art eraser on any REALLY dirty contacts, then clean them up with Q-tips and Windex (not alcohol).

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Originally Posted by Tanegashima

Have you tried the Sega CD yet?? I mean, wouldn't it be easier to just give the Sega CD a shot before you go through the trouble of resetting the ribbon cables?


I got it with the 32X in a sealed box, it came from Sega, with the 32X. Of course it came with the 32X, the 32X instructions wouldn't tell me to attach it to the Genesis if it did not come with the 32X now would it? I do not have a scanner, but I assure you that this is the case. I will take a photo if it will work soon enough. Most people don't buy 32X systems complete either, and most have no idea this part even exists. But it do.

What does your SN mean?

http://www.trocadero.com/MONTES/item...7862store.html

There, that's what my SN means...


IT is very important to note, however, my 32X which was brand new in box came with two sets of instructions, the originals on white glossy and a supplemental on orange regular paper. The originals contain instructions on how to set up the 32X with the CDX, including pictures of a proposed CDX/32X adapter sleeve. These glossy instructions do not mention this side adapter thingy along with included parts. The supplemental does mention/picture the side thingy and also has a huge warning 32X IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH SEGA CDX!. No doubt, the side thingy was included later after potential bugs showed up on people who had a stand alone genesis. Here is a picture PROVING its existence. You can't read it, but the diagram should at least be proof enough. The instructions say this should be done with a Genesis model I as well.

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/2606/001bk4.th.jpghttp://img224.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

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I didn't mean to insult you or anything, I just wanted to know more about it. If possible, could you make a less blurry scan/picture of those instructions? I just want to read exactly what they say to know if it was a bug fix or an FCC BS (seeing as they show the stupid metal plates going in too). My SN means I am "17 days older than nes" meaning "I was born 17 days before the NES was released in the US"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AG Wolf

Wow, I never saw that little extension piece until I found one rotting in my friend's basement a few years ago when I was helping him move. I bought a 32x back when stores were clearancing them, mine has the double instructions but never came with the little extension piece. I occasionally had freezes and other problems, but I also had a Sega CD, so I don't know whether that connector would really have made a difference or not. Nowadays, whenever I haul out a 32x for one reason or another, I never have any issues using a 32x, and I still don't use that extension.

as far as using an emory voard on the contacts- that's kinda bad. Use a pink art eraser on any REALLY dirty contacts, then clean them up with Q-tips and Windex (not alcohol).

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So Knuckles Chaotix runs fine for you? All my other games run without incidence, but I think Chaotix uses features that others don't, especially since it was a Sega programmed title, which kind of supports the ribbon cable theory some more. Take Castlevania III for instance, it uses pins only one other game uses and if that pin happens to be the only one corroded, it won't work, and considering the small library of the 32x, it wouldn't surpise me to find that it utilized a relatively unknown function.

As for eraser/windex...no. Erasers get rubber strips everywhere and unless they are brand new still leave smeary residue. Windex has other chemicals that could potentially leave deposits, its meant to make glass pretty, not make contacts electrically conductive. Radio Shack actually sells an electronics cleaner pen that is nothing more than a dry erase marker without the ink...in other words, alcohol in a pen. The emery board is always the last resort, but even my Mechanics of Materials engineering professor supports the use of fine grit sandpaper to fix corroded electronics. Some people say it just makes it worse later on, but i have a copy of Auotmobili Lamborghini for N64 that I had to sand about a year ago and its contacts are still shiny as the day I sanded them. The key to cleaning games is to remove as many foreign materials as possible, not to make it look like jewelry if it means leaving any kind of residue.

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Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes

Knuckles Chaotix was mask rom though, wasn't it? To my knowledge only flash ROMs suffer bit rot. Plus, add to that it was a ?95? release and the game save file is still on there from the original owner. I'll try reinserting the ribbon cable and then do the whole Sega CD razmatazz. I just really hope I can get it working because I really don't think the game is to blame.

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Regular mask ROMs can also become corrupt, though its highly unlikely. I have few 20 year old pirate FC carts which have developed some issues that are most definitely related to ROM...

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Originally Posted by TmEE

Regular mask ROMs can also become corrupt, though its highly unlikely. I have few 20 year old pirate FC carts which have developed some issues that are most definitely related to ROM...

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Aren't pirate FC carts usually EEPROM though? That's what it always seems to be when I read technical stuff about them. Mask ROMs seem like they would be too expensive for your average pirate cart maker, especially when they usually can't even make the label out of paper that can withstand a drop of water. Even still, at only ~13 years old and in good overall condition I would hope Knuckles Chaotix isn't suffering from that already. At any rate, if I get a chance today I'll reseat the ribbon cables and if that doesn't work I'll try the Sega CD thing (which, believe it or not, would be a bigger pain than reseating the ribbon cables) and report back on the results.