Seventh Generation: The Years of Stagnation

Hello all,

As my fellow slave office workers would say "Happy Monday!"

The idea for this topic started when I first witnessed a video for Soul Calibur IV. Now, thanks to a review on Classic Game room on Virtual Fighter 5 I am almost completely convinced that the console market / games are in full blow stagnation. The only way I can describe it is if you ported all the Sixth Generation games on to the Seventh Generation consoles.

All I see is more expensive yet, better looking, yet less entertaining games.

Has making video games become standardized? Is it like something out of an assembly line. Very generic. Where is the revolutionary game play? Where is the raising of the standards?

I am sticking with my PC until I see some real changes and innovation.

Well, what do you call "innovation?". In my opinion, not a whole lot has changed since the N64/PSX era other than improved graphics and 3D controls. Remember, not a whole lot changed between the 8-bit and 16-bit generations.

If you ask me, I think this generation has seen some real winners. Nintendo had super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, and Twilight Princess. The multi-platform Grand Theft Auto 4 was one of the only games I can think of that received perfect scores from multiple publications. XBox has, of course, the Gears of War series.

Compare that to last generation. What stand-out games do you remmber? Everyone made a big deal out of the God of War series, and of course the GTA 3 games. Nintendo had a few amazing games on the gamecube and the xbox had halo.

I don't see too much of a difference.

I don't agree at all. You really don't need any of these current gen' consoles. The FPS are all on PC and they play better with Mouse and Keyboard.

If you want to narrow the argument and just bring attention to the " Wheres the Innovation" I will bite.

Dreamcast:
Samba De Amigo
Shenmue I-II
Jet Grind Radio
Skies of Arcadia
Soul Calibur

PS2:
Onimusha
Devil May Cry
Tekken
Soul Calibur 2
God of War

Gamecube:
RE4
RE1: Remake


^ All of these titles created whole new genres of gaming.

Where are the new and improved stuff in this generation?

I see Stagnation everywhere.

Most of the games you can just buy on PC and if you have a pretty good computer they will probably run better and you will have better controls as well.

I see no reason at all to drop the ridiculous amount of money if they aren't going to come out with anything memorable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheEdge

I don't agree at all. You really don't need any of these current gen' consoles. The FPS are all on PC and they play better with Mouse and Keyboard.

If you want to narrow the argument and just bring attention to the " Wheres the Innovation" I will bite.

Dreamcast:
Samba De Amigo
Shenmue I-II
Jet Grind Radio
Skies of Arcadia
Soul Calibur

PS2:
Onimusha
Devil May Cry
Tekken
Soul Calibur 2
God of War

Gamecube:
RE4
RE1: Remake


^ All of these titles created whole new genres of gaming.

Where are the new and improved stuff in this generation?

I see Stagnation everywhere.

Most of the games you can just buy on PC and if you have a pretty good computer they will probably run better and you will have better controls as well.

I see no reason at all to drop the ridiculous amount of money if they aren't going to come out with anything memorable.

---

First of all, I'm not completely disagreeing with you. The stance I'm taking is not that this current generation is so terribly innovative, but that the last three generations have seen more "improvement" than "innovation."

The way I see it, the only real innovation (the way I think you're defining it, at any rate) comes only at the start of each technological watershed. Say, pac-man and space invaders. All future games more or less improved on the formulas set in those games until super Mario Bros, which truly changed the way we play games. Most games followed that same basic formula with only a few alterations until we went 3D. I think super Mario 64 ushered in that area, and for the most part all games have just been working off THAT game.


And most of the games you listed for last-gen can be scratched off, as all they really did was improve on existing formulas. God of War and Devil May Cry, for example, were essentially the same game (and both were really just pretty versions of Double Dragon with some RPG elements thrown in).

Resident evil 4 was revolutionary, sure - but the RE1 remake shouldn't count, as that was just a remake of a PS1 game that didn't really do anything new.

My point is that games only go through a gradual evolution with only a few real revolutionary leaps. It was this way throughout the 8-bit and 16-bit eras and that's the way things work now.

Every successful game you can name from last-gen was built off existing ideas.


Edit: I forgot to mention that I've always believed that sega produced some VERY innovative games for the dreamcast.

And one final thought: I don't expect every game I play to be a big life-changing event. Anyone who really expects this is just cheating themselves out of hundreds of games that, though not terribly different from their ancestors, are still great experiences in their own right.

You criticise the lack of innovation, and then praise the RE remake? I'm sorry, I can't take you seriously.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrMatthews

First of all, I'm not completely disagreeing with you. The stance I'm taking is not that this current generation is so terribly innovative, but that the last three generations have seen more "improvement" than "innovation."

The way I see it, the only real innovation (the way I think you're defining it, at any rate) comes only at the start of each technological watershed. Say, pac-man and space invaders. All future games more or less improved on the formulas set in those games until super Mario Bros, which truly changed the way we play games. Most games followed that same basic formula with only a few alterations until we went 3D. I think super Mario 64 ushered in that area, and for the most part all games have just been working off THAT game.


And most of the games you listed for last-gen can be scratched off, as all they really did was improve on existing formulas. God of War and Devil May Cry, for example, were essentially the same game (and both were really just pretty versions of Double Dragon with some RPG elements thrown in).

Resident evil 4 was revolutionary, sure - but the RE1 remake shouldn't count, as that was just a remake of a PS1 game that didn't really do anything new.

My point is that games only go through a gradual evolution with only a few real revolutionary leaps. It was this way throughout the 8-bit and 16-bit eras and that's the way things work now.

Every successful game you can name from last-gen was built off existing ideas.


Edit: I forgot to mention that I've always believed that sega produced some VERY innovative games for the dreamcast.

And one final thought: I don't expect every game I play to be a big life-changing event. Anyone who really expects this is just cheating themselves out of hundreds of games that, though not terribly different from their ancestors, are still great experiences in their own right.

---

The problem with your argument is that your are saying that nothing has been ground breaking since the conception of the first video game ever produced.

Meaning nothing is more innovative than Pong (WHICH WAS NOT THE FIRST VIDEO GAME PRODUCED IT IS AN EXAMPLE). Also I didn't mean for this thread to circle around innovation. I am starting to see that people take one minute detail from the posts and blow them completely out of purportion. But anyway.

Look at the rehashed in the topic.

VF5 - Rehashed / Soul Calibur IV - Rehashed

Gears of War - RE4 with a different storyline.

Also the comparison to Double Dragon and Devil May Cry doesn't hold water. You can't possible compared them. Yes, they are a beat'em up game but they are completely different in almost every way other than fighting multiple enemies at once.

I know your a defender of these next gen' consoles but come on, you have to see the downward spiral from Sixth Gen' to Seventh.

Many, not all the games are really not worth it. I would wait until the Eighth Gen' and see if they can get their creative juices flowing.

True. I loved the RE remake, don't get me wrong. But Smash Bros Melee was a better example of innovation.

Quote:

---

Has making video games become standardized? Is it like something out of an assembly line. Very generic. Where is the revolutionary game play? Where is the raising of the standards?

---

^ THIS IS WHAT THE TOPIC QUESTION IS!!! (Tearing hair out)


Jesus christ! Mr . Matthews....should I delete the word "innovation" from the freakin thread. Its not just about innovation its about the whole console feel and entertainment value.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheEdge

The problem with your argument is that your are saying that nothing has been ground breaking since the conception of the first video game ever produced.

Meaning nothing is more innovative than Pong (WHICH WAS NOT THE FIRST VIDEO GAME PRODUCED IT IS AN EXAMPLE). Also I didn't mean for this thread to circle around innovation. I am starting to see that people take one minute detail from the posts and blow them completely out of purportion. But anyway.

Look at the rehashed in the topic.

VF5 - Rehashed / Soul Calibur IV - Rehashed

Gears of War - RE4 with a different storyline.

Also the comparison to Double Dragon and Devil May Cry doesn't hold water. You can't possible compared them. Yes, they are a beat'em up game but they are completely different in almost every way other than fighting multiple enemies at once.

I know your a defender of these next gen' consoles but come on, you have to see the downward spiral from Sixth Gen' to Seventh.

Many, not all the games are really not worth it. I would wait until the Eighth Gen' and see if they can get their creative juices flowing.

---

Come on, now - I agreed with you that this latest crop of games haven't done anything new. And Gears of War WAS RE4 with a few adjustments.

All I was saying was that last-gen was NO different.

And I wasnt saying that all games sprung from Pong. I was saying that there are only a handful of games that were genuinely revolutionary, and all other games were built off their foundations. I also said I was totally alright with that.

Quote:

---

All I was saying was that last-gen was NO different

---

AHHHH! WHAT?!

Are you the Mayor of Crazy-town! (j/k)

The Sixth Generation was extremely ground breaking.

Sega
Nintendo
Sony
Microsoft

ALL had hits that revolutionized the gaming world. Are you disagreeing with me to attempt to drive me insane? It won't work! Dam you!

EDIT: The present generation is like an inbred son taking the throne from a intelligent and just ruler and making it into a Mad Max dystopia over night.

While Fallout 3 may borrow heavily from games like Oblivion, Mass Effect and several other titles, it feels like a whole new experience. I really felt like I was exploring a desolite world and my character had to struggle to survive in a harsh, radiated land.

Little Big Planet would appear to be just another platformer, but it offers players a chance to design and share their levels with other players. Other players can rate the levels, as well as play them together online. It's not leaps and bounds above what we've played before, but it does bring a little more interacitivity to platformers.

LIVE and PSN make it possible for Indy developers to share their games via those services. PSN has games like Echochrome, while LIVE has games like Penny Arcade. We could see quite a bit of quirky, quick games that feature a lot of new concepts never thought of before in gaming.

It's way too early to judge this generation. Last gen didn't exactly start out with a bang either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gamevet

It's way too early to judge this generation. Last gen didn't exactly start out with a bang either.

---

This is true but from what I'm seeing at present, lets just say I don't have high hopes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheEdge

AHHHH! WHAT?!

Are you the Mayor of Crazy-town! (j/k)

The Sixth Generation was extremely ground breaking.

Sega
Nintendo
Sony
Microsoft

ALL had hits that revolutionized the gaming world. Are you disagreeing with me to attempt to drive me insane? It won't work! Dam you!

EDIT: The present generation is like an inbred son taking the throne from a intelligent, handsome, and just ruler and making it into a fascist police state over night.

---

LOL

Enhance your calm. The underlying message in all of my posts has been "you're right, but..."

I mean no disrespect, but we can still debate, right?

And if you don't want to focus on "innovation," why did you use that word to wrap up your thoughts in your original post?

But continuing our good-natured (and I can't stress that enough) debate, let's take a look at some of last-gen's hits, okay?

Chu Chu Rocket
Crazy Taxi
Samba de Amigo
Space Channel 5
Jet Grind Radio

All excellent examples. The Dreamcast is hereby excused from this debate, since sega was responsible for some of the most innov- er..."creative" games of the generation.

God of War? Come on - the pacing and major elements of that game were identical to the brawler arcade titles of yore. The graphics and music were fantastic and the "level-up" elements were cool, but this game did nothing really new. All it did was take tired and dated gameplay and cover it up with an awesome presentation.

And the first thing I thought of when I played Devil May Cry is "this is just like God of War!". Since DMC came first, that is another strike against GoW.

the PS2 only had a few revolutionary titles: grand theft auto, Ico, and Shadow of the Colossus. The other games were just evolved games from the previous generation.

The XBox had, what? Halo? Doom3? Fable? Knights of the old republic? Were any of those revolutionary? Your answer will probably lead directly to my next example:

Metroid Prime. VERY revolutionary. Much more so than Halo.

With very few exceptions, most of the biggest games from last-gen were updates from the previous generation.

I'm going to end this post before I lose focus any more than I already have. The only reason I disagree with you is because you're saying that last-gen was so awesome compared to this one, when in my opinion they are no different in terms of creativity.

Constant change and innovation was what screwed video games up in the first place. What happened to game play? The worst innovation in gaming history was the un-skippable cut scene.

Me = devil's advocate.

The biggest revolutionary step for this generation is the online aspect. All three consoles offer a variety of games for download, which is great, and online multiplayer has become integral to most PS3 and 360 games.

Not saying I care about that last point too much, but it is a fact. That's really how this generation is "revolutionary." the games themselves are pretty much the last as the last.

And I'm not a huge supporter of current-gen games. I think each generation has had a lot of excellent software to offer, and I don't like seeing any of them unjustly criticized. I'd probably get drawn in to such a discussion is someone said knocked 16-bit games for not being as good as 8-bit games.