This depresses me, Nintendo has fallen (even farther)

***Walks in waaaay late to the party***

The Wii - for me - will always be a valid console of this generation simply because it has the best game of this generation: Super Mario Galaxy. Yeah, there's a ton of shovelware, but that comes along with any sales-leading console. Really don't believe me? Go to gamefaqs and browse through games beginning with the letter "S" on PS2. Holy Moley!

The real problem is Nintendo's lack of innovation on key franchises. Mario Kart and Animal Crossing being the two best examples. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt, though, because this is a key time for them to introduce these key franchises to new gamers. As the generation moves along, so too will the franchises.

And when did art become relegated to a certain level of sophistication? Like it or not, games like Wii Sports and Wii Fit are fun. Lots of fun. There are those of us that get that. Video games are all about fun, not fitting into a specific type of fun. We all have different tastes, I love COD 4 yet hate most other FPS. I eagerly await colorful releases like deBlob and Prince of Persia, yet scoff at Fallout 3.

The point is, a market based on casual and colorful games does exist. And to become angry with Nintendo for catering to that market is just ridiculous. To ignore the Wii as a gaming console is to be close minded.

That's my rant.

Oh, and the SNES is one of the greatest consoles of all time! Comparing it to the N64 is like comparing a corvette to a pinto.

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Originally Posted by InternalPrimate

And when did art become relegated to a certain level of sophistication? Like it or not, games like Wii Sports and Wii Fit are fun. Lots of fun. There are those of us that get that. Video games are all about fun, not fitting into a specific type of fun. We all have different tastes, I love COD 4 yet hate most other FPS. I eagerly await colorful releases like deBlob and Prince of Persia, yet scoff at Fallout 3.

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Just curious, what do you not like about Fallout 3?

I don't like the idea..

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Originally Posted by InternalPrimate

***Walks in waaaay late to the party***

The Wii - for me - will always be a valid console of this generation simply because it has the best game of this generation: Super Mario Galaxy. Yeah, there's a ton of shovelware, but that comes along with any sales-leading console. Really don't believe me? Go to gamefaqs and browse through games beginning with the letter "S" on PS2. Holy Moley!

The real problem is Nintendo's lack of innovation on key franchises. Mario Kart and Animal Crossing being the two best examples. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt, though, because this is a key time for them to introduce these key franchises to new gamers. As the generation moves along, so too will the franchises.

And when did art become relegated to a certain level of sophistication? Like it or not, games like Wii Sports and Wii Fit are fun. Lots of fun. There are those of us that get that. Video games are all about fun, not fitting into a specific type of fun. We all have different tastes, I love COD 4 yet hate most other FPS. I eagerly await colorful releases like deBlob and Prince of Persia, yet scoff at Fallout 3.

The point is, a market based on casual and colorful games does exist. And to become angry with Nintendo for catering to that market is just ridiculous. To ignore the Wii as a gaming console is to be close minded.

That's my rant.

Oh, and the SNES is one of the greatest consoles of all time! Comparing it to the N64 is like comparing a corvette to a pinto.

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I agree with all that. Although I know most people here will disagree, the fact is that the Wii is the most innovative and revoluationary console of this generation. More people would see that if the game library didn't runneth over with garbage.

There are many games in the Wii's library that validate it as a respectable game console, with more on the way. The problem (well, one of them) is that lazy developers see how indescriminate the target demographic is, which is why there is an approximated 4:1 ratio of crap games to good ones.

Nintendo needs to do a little damage control by actually exercising their right to veto some of this software.

On a side note, it is interesting to me that Nintendo would own both the worst game libraries of this generation (Wii) and the best (DS)

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Just curious, what do you not like about Fallout 3?

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I find the gameplay boring and the visuals uninspiring. It's just personal taste, but I couldn't stand Oblivion either. I like my rpg's fast paced and somewhat linear. Call me crazy :D

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Originally Posted by InternalPrimate

I find the gameplay boring and the visuals uninspiring. It's just personal taste, but I couldn't stand Oblivion either. I like my rpg's fast paced and somewhat linear. Call me crazy :D

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I've only played about 3 hours of Oblivion and another couple of hours with Marrowind. Fallout 3 does have it simularities, but it is the only game (of the 3)that I found hard to put down. It's like GTA without the cars and a better storyline. The action really picks up once you explore the wasteland more.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

I've only played about 3 hours of Oblivion and another couple of hours with Marrowind. Fallout 3 does have it simularities, but it is the only game (of the 3)that I found hard to put down. It's like GTA without the cars and a better storyline. The action really picks up once you explore the wasteland more.

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I just signed up for this "unlimited game rentals" thing from my local blockbuster, so I'll definitely give it a try :)

I still do not own a Wii, and I don't expect I will any time soon. The system was clearly made for people with different tastes and standards than my own, and since that's the case I really don't see any point in buying one when I already have a PS3, a laptop, and a large selection of legacy consoles to pick from. If I do pick up a Wii, it will probably be in a few years when people are starting to move on to other things, and they're availible for under $100 ($80 or less would probably be the sweet spot for me). There are a few games for it I'd like to get, like Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, and Smash Bros. Brawl, but those three games are just plain not worth dropping $250 for the system to me, when money is tight and I could spend that $250 buying games and accessories for my PS3.

The Wii just doesn't really have enough content that's for me. It was designed and marketed to people who don't like video games, and the recent announcement of "kind code" only adds insult to injury. I really don't want to sit around for months at a time waiting for a worthwhile piece of software for the system, especially when it will often times result in a dumbed down version of a cherished franchise like Mario Kart, or potentially, the next Zelda (as if Twilight Princess hadn't cranked up the noob-friendly meter enough as it was).

I grew up with Nintendo, so I'll always have a soft spot for their legacy systems and games. However, Nintendo did not grow up with me, and it's because of that that I ended up leaving them for Sony about halfway through the last generation. I watched as Sony and Microsoft began making more and more games that were geared towards teens and adults and building on the ideas of online play, while Nintendo refused to make anything that a child couldn't play, and insisted that connecting a gameboy to a gamecube was somehow equivelent to having sixteen player multiplayer matches in your favorite game any time you wanted. And don't even get me started on Wii's "friend codes." Pretty much any time Nintendo puts the word "code" into the name of a feature, you know it's going to be bad news.

For now, I'm sticking with PS3, and if for some reason Sony and Microsoft decide to follow Nintendo into the swamp of casual drudgery next generation (God forbid), then I'll migrate to PC. I don't want to see hardcore gaming die out, but Nintendo has created a precedent that hardcore gamers are not as profitable as the people who don't like video games enough to take them seriously as a hobby, and that honestly scares me a lot.

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Originally Posted by Timstuff

I still do not own a Wii, and I don't expect I will any time soon. The system was clearly made for people with different tastes and standards than my own, and since that's the case I really don't see any point in buying one when I already have a PS3, a laptop, and a large selection of legacy consoles to pick from. If I do pick up a Wii, it will probably be in a few years when people are starting to move on to other things, and they're availible for under $100 ($80 or less would probably be the sweet spot for me). There are a few games for it I'd like to get, like Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, and Smash Bros. Brawl, but those three games are just plain not worth dropping $250 for the system to me, when money is tight and I could spend that $250 buying games and accessories for my PS3.

The Wii just doesn't really have enough content that's for me. It was designed and marketed to people who don't like video games, and the recent announcement of "kind code" only adds insult to injury. I really don't want to sit around for months at a time waiting for a worthwhile piece of software for the system, especially when it will often times result in a dumbed down version of a cherished franchise like Mario Kart, or potentially, the next Zelda (as if Twilight Princess hadn't cranked up the noob-friendly meter enough as it was).

I grew up with Nintendo, so I'll always have a soft spot for their legacy systems and games. However, Nintendo did not grow up with me, and it's because of that that I ended up leaving them for Sony about halfway through the last generation. I watched as Sony and Microsoft began making more and more games that were geared towards teens and adults and building on the ideas of online play, while Nintendo refused to make anything that a child couldn't play, and insisted that connecting a gameboy to a gamecube was somehow equivelent to having sixteen player multiplayer matches in your favorite game any time you wanted. And don't even get me started on Wii's "friend codes." Pretty much any time Nintendo puts the word "code" into the name of a feature, you know it's going to be bad news.

For now, I'm sticking with PS3, and if for some reason Sony and Microsoft decide to follow Nintendo into the swamp of casual drudgery next generation (God forbid), then I'll migrate to PC. I don't want to see hardcore gaming die out, but Nintendo has created a precedent that hardcore gamers are not as profitable as the people who don't like video games enough to take them seriously as a hobby, and that honestly scares me a lot.

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I completely agree with you on a lot of your points. You'll never hear me argue in favor of Wii online games, because their system of friend codes is simply ridiculous. A single friend code would be bearable, but individual codes for every game released is just crazy.

I just don't get the fear of casual games. There's a place for both hardcore and casual. You're never going to see hardcore gaming die out because it would hurt console sales. The whole point is to expand the market, not replace it.

Again, I just think that there's a lot of misplaced fear and anger going around. And it seems like every gamer is looking to blame Nintendo simply because they're benefiting the most at the moment. Can anyone remember three years ago? People despised the big bad Sony corporation. Now it's Nintendo, and it will probably someday be Microsoft. It's all so tiring.

Here's what I don't understand: how many games does anyone actually buy at full price? At $60 a pop, I won't buy more than four or five *new* games during the lifespan of a console. Honestly, not too many games are worth that price to me.

So when people start complaining that "X" console doesn't have more than a few good games, I can't help but wonder how many games you even NEED.

I think most people are like me in that they hold a game's quality against its price: a game they'd never pay $50 for, they'll gladly pay $25.

Once a bit of time passes and games can be purchased for around $20, I think most people would be surprised how many good games each console actually has.

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Originally Posted by Timstuff

I still do not own a Wii, and I don't expect I will any time soon. The system was clearly made for people with different tastes and standards than my own, and since that's the case I really don't see any point in buying one when I already have a PS3, a laptop, and a large selection of legacy consoles to pick from. If I do pick up a Wii, it will probably be in a few years when people are starting to move on to other things, and they're availible for under $100 ($80 or less would probably be the sweet spot for me). There are a few games for it I'd like to get, like Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, and Smash Bros. Brawl, but those three games are just plain not worth dropping $250 for the system to me, when money is tight and I could spend that $250 buying games and accessories for my PS3.

The Wii just doesn't really have enough content that's for me. It was designed and marketed to people who don't like video games, and the recent announcement of "kind code" only adds insult to injury. I really don't want to sit around for months at a time waiting for a worthwhile piece of software for the system, especially when it will often times result in a dumbed down version of a cherished franchise like Mario Kart, or potentially, the next Zelda (as if Twilight Princess hadn't cranked up the noob-friendly meter enough as it was).

I grew up with Nintendo, so I'll always have a soft spot for their legacy systems and games. However, Nintendo did not grow up with me, and it's because of that that I ended up leaving them for Sony about halfway through the last generation. I watched as Sony and Microsoft began making more and more games that were geared towards teens and adults and building on the ideas of online play, while Nintendo refused to make anything that a child couldn't play, and insisted that connecting a gameboy to a gamecube was somehow equivelent to having sixteen player multiplayer matches in your favorite game any time you wanted. And don't even get me started on Wii's "friend codes." Pretty much any time Nintendo puts the word "code" into the name of a feature, you know it's going to be bad news.

For now, I'm sticking with PS3, and if for some reason Sony and Microsoft decide to follow Nintendo into the swamp of casual drudgery next generation (God forbid), then I'll migrate to PC. I don't want to see hardcore gaming die out, but Nintendo has created a precedent that hardcore gamers are not as profitable as the people who don't like video games enough to take them seriously as a hobby, and that honestly scares me a lot.

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The hardcore gaming market died off a long time ago, and apart from in the form of downloadable games has been completely absent from the PS3 and 360, this happened as soon as the big corporations came into the industry and worked out their marketing strategies and target demographics.

This thing that Nintendo have been getting crucified for lately, pandering to the lowest common denominator has been going on for years now with the slow polarisation of the video game development scene towards 2 or 3 key gaming genre's at the expense of all else.

At least Nintendo still throw out a curve ball every now and then, even if it is only 1 game out of every 10 odd they release.

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Originally Posted by MrMatthews

Here's what I don't understand: how many games does anyone actually buy at full price? At $60 a pop, I won't buy more than four or five *new* games during the lifespan of a console. Honestly, not too many games are worth that price to me.

So when people start complaining that "X" console doesn't have more than a few good games, I can't help but wonder how many games you even NEED.

I think most people are like me in that they hold a game's quality against its price: a game they'd never pay $50 for, they'll gladly pay $25.

Once a bit of time passes and games can be purchased for around $20, I think most people would be surprised how many good games each console actually has.

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I buy at least one game at full price, every 2 to 3 months. Once I've played through the full price title, I'll usually opt for a game in the $15-$25 range, or catch up on titles I didn't finish.

The Wii reminds me a lot of how it was owning a Gamecube and the N64 before it. You'd have a couple of great games and a bunch of crappy games made for kids on a yearly basis. Sadly, my GC has about 6 games I'd say are must own, a few that a enjoyable and a bunch of other titles that I don't think I'll ever find the time or need to play.

The Wii is a great 2nd or 3rd choice console, but I'd never consider it as the main platform for my gaming needs.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Sadly, my GC has about 6 games I'd say are must own, a few that a enjoyable and a bunch of other titles that I don't think I'll ever find the time or need to play.

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Just out of curiousity, what are those 6 games? I counted 8 exclusive games in my collection that (for me) make the GameCube worth owning, and there's four more if you want to count Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Mario Sunshine, Pikmin, and Resident Evil 4 (which was an exclusive for a while, at least)
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Hmmm, after thinking about the differences between the 3rd party Gamecube and N64 libraries I think my general thoughts are this.

Between the consoles Nintendo gave up companies who supported them with exclusive games (Rare, Konami, Treasure) and/or primary development (Acclaim made some exclusives as well as most of their games arriving on N64 first) and replaced them with companies giving them late multi-format games (Burnout, Timesplitters, Red Faction 2, SSX, Prince of Persia) as well as what at first seemed like a very lucrative exclusivity deal with Capcom, which quickly degenerated into just being timed exclusive games that would later appear on PS2.

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Originally Posted by jesus.arnold

. . . companies giving them late multi-format games (Burnout, Timesplitters, Red Faction 2, SSX, Prince of Persia)

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Don't forget Splinter Cell! :)

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Originally Posted by jesus.arnold

as well as what at first seemed like a very lucrative exclusivity deal with Capcom, which quickly degenerated into just being timed exclusive games that would later appear on PS2.

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Well, Nintendo should have known better than to trust Capcom to remain exclusive. Capcom is the Grace Slick of the video game world . . . and yet wouldn't give it up for the N64, interestingly enough.