Wolf32X - finally in beta!

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Originally Posted by kool kitty89

Chaotix uses the 32X for the sprite scaling, right?

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Right.

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And thanks for the correction on the sound programming, I'd gotten the impression from wikipedia's description. (as well as some of the games, though in DOOM's case the PWM samples sound quite nice, it's the FM synthesized music -I assume done through the YM2612- that's awful)

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I've heard conflicting info on the music in Doom. I also haven't checked into it.

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Also, I was correct about there being two PWM channels added from the 32X?

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There is a left channel, a right channel, and a mono channel. However, the mono channel just sets both the right and left channels to the same thing at the same time. It's there so that if you're only doing mono, you only have to store one word instead of two, thus cutting the bus activity in half. That would be especially important if you were using the Z80 to write the sound data.

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Is the statement about the 32X being particularly difficult to program for also false? (or is this only if you try to use both SH-2's together?)

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At first glance, it looks hard. If you don't try to push it too far, it's not that hard. It's when you do things like use both SH2s at the same time, and try to utilize the 68000/Z80 as well that it starts getting complicated. Even then, I haven't found it THAT hard. Of course, part of this depends on your experience in programming. I used to do assembly language programming on the Amiga, so this isn't too bad.

Okay, I lied. Music wasn't next - I added an auto-map! :D

Read the README!!

What's the download link?

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Originally Posted by The Jackal

What's the download link?

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First post - beta 4. Like all good authors, I keep all the releases in the first post so they can be found easily. If I did like some folk and put the release in a post in the thread, you'd have to hunt through the entire thread looking for versions. :)

Cheers, Chilly!

I must say this is beyond awesome. As others have mentioned in this thread, please release this on cart or CD. I would pay full retail price in an instant.

Maybe some day you could make a proper version of Doom for the 32X. I would buy it as well.

Excellent job!

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Originally Posted by Alvatron

I must say this is beyond awesome. As others have mentioned in this thread, please release this on cart or CD. I would pay full retail price in an instant.

Maybe some day you could make a proper version of Doom for the 32X. I would buy it as well.

Excellent job!

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Would that there were cheap flash carts that people could buy... I spent over $100 for the one I use for testing. I'm not about to have ROM carts made... especially given the licensing on this project. :D

I am working toward the CD version now, so that should help folks who have picked up a CD unit. Once I get that going, I will be looking into a new version of Doom 32X. W3D is mainly my learning project for figuring out how to make homebrew for the 32X and CD.

Saving's in now? Hadn't noticed, awesome!

64KB SRAM, huh... it'd need a big one for a save-anywhere like that, wouldn't it.

For the Sega CD version, unless you make it require a CD Backup RAM Cart for saving, that 8KB internal save memory size might be an issue, even beyond the obvious major graphical problems... :)

And even the CD Backup RAM Carts are 'only' 128KB, and expensive, so having to use a full half of it for one save file wouldn't be great either.

Of course with emulators that's not a problem, but with emulators you can just run the 32X version.

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Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

Saving's in now? Hadn't noticed, awesome!

64KB SRAM, huh... it'd need a big one for a save-anywhere like that, wouldn't it.

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Actually, the save game is just a smidgen less than 32 KB, which is good because that's all you get from flash carts like the MD-Pro, despite them saying you get 64 KB. :p

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For the Sega CD version, unless you make it require a CD Backup RAM Cart for saving, that 8KB internal save memory size might be an issue, even beyond the obvious major graphical problems... :)

And even the CD Backup RAM Carts are 'only' 128KB, and expensive, so having to use a full half of it for one save file wouldn't be great either.

Of course with emulators that's not a problem, but with emulators you can just run the 32X version.

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Yes, the save game is an issue for the CD. I doubt it would fit in the built-in SRAM, even with compression, and then it would use most of the space. That's why games like Doom 32X use a code that you get at the end of each level completed. I suppose I could do something similar, but instead of a code, make that the save state. It would be MUCH smaller as I'd have much less data to keep track of. Of course, the issue then is you only get to save at the end of each level.

Is the Sega CD version that you're working on regular Sega CD or is it 32X CD?

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Originally Posted by Tears of Ash

Is the Sega CD version that you're working on regular Sega CD or is it 32X CD?

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32X CD. I might take a stab at a plain SEGA CD version some time in the future, but not right away. The SEGA CD could handle it, but I'd need to do more work on the graphics... process the textures and sprites to use 16 colors and separate palettes. It would also not be in the same resolution. Instead of 320x200 like the 32X version is, I'd probably run the VDP in 256x224 mode and make the game screen 200x160.

I'm probably being dope of the year here but what resolution did the SNES version of Wolf3D run at P 256x224, 512x224, 256x239, 512x239?

I'd never realised the mega drive had such poo resolutions by comparison: 256 x 224, 320 x 240

MD has 256/320 x 192(only on real HW and with some tricks)/224/240/448/480. And to comfort you, those higher res of SNES were used very infrequently, mainly because it requres too mcuh PPU resource so you can effectively use them for static things or only slightly dymanic things like menues.

And on MD you have Sonic2 2P in 320x448, and its not a menu but action :D

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Originally Posted by TmEE

MD has 256/320 x 192(only on real HW and with some tricks)/224/240/448/480. And to comfort you, those higher res of SNES were used very infrequently, mainly because it requres too mcuh PPU resource so you can effectively use them for static things or only slightly dymanic things like menues.

And on MD you have Sonic2 2P in 320x448, and its not a menu but action :D

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always nice to have an expert present hehe :) Still do you know the SNES resolution of Wolf 3D Tiido?

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Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

32X CD. I might take a stab at a plain SEGA CD version some time in the future, but not right away.

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Awesome. I'm looking forward to the 32X CD version then.

As far as I know, it was 256x224, but in low detail (pixels doubled horizontally), making it 128 wide. It's one of the major complaints in most reviews I've read about it (can't tell a bad guy from a vase at more than a few feet away :D ).

It's the same thing DOOM 32X did (run in low detail mode). It really helps the speed on such slow processors, but really lowers the display quality. Supposedly, early alphas of DOOM 32X didn't run in low detail mode. I don't plan to run in low detail in my version. Wolf32X doesn't. 320x224 is low-detail enough as it is. :D

IIRC, the res is 112x80 for SNES wolf 3D. It used BYTE pixel mode(8bit indexed color) and scaled the screen(play window) to 224x160 - which helped reduce processing overhead. All in game objects and enemies are software rendered too (no hardware sprites used for them).

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I'm probably being dope of the year here but what resolution did the SNES version of Wolf3D run at P 256x224, 512x224, 256x239, 512x239?

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256x224, 256x448, 512x224, 512x448. The higher vertical res modes are interlaced. The higher horizontal res mode is only for BGs. It does not effect sprites which are still rendered at a dot clock of 5.37mhz in relation to the BG. The higher res horiztonal modes eat up some PPU resource, thus restricting some of the effects the SNES is known for. I've only ever seen it used for text boxes/windows.

Vertical resolution is a more noticeable improvement in overall resolution to the human eye than horiztonal resolution increase, if the dot clock is ~5.37mhz or higher. Neither of the system would have benefited much from a higher res horizontal resolution and vertical resolution increase because the requirements of VRAM are quadrupled. As it is, running a 256x448 interlace mode is basically halving the VRAM in ratio aspect. It works well in Sonic 2 two player because both split screens have access to the same tiles and other sprites, etc and they are being display squished (half res).

Which SNES games have an interlaced screen on them? I have never seen my SNES interlace, not even for a second.

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Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

Which SNES games have an interlaced screen on them?

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I don't remember off hand, but very few. Like I said before, it's not very practical when it requires twice as much vram to display (tiles and sprites).

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I have never seen my SNES interlace, not even for a second.

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And if it weren't for Sonic 2, you'd probably never have seen it on your Genesis either. The same downside applies to the Genesis as well - requires twice as much vram for a correct aspect ratio. But it doesn't mean either systems can't output an interlaced signal.

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Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

Actually, the save game is just a smidgen less than 32 KB, which is good because that's all you get from flash carts like the MD-Pro, despite them saying you get 64 KB. :p

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Really? Then why is Kega's save file 64KB? I thought those files were usually the proper size...

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Yes, the save game is an issue for the CD. I doubt it would fit in the built-in SRAM, even with compression, and then it would use most of the space. That's why games like Doom 32X use a code that you get at the end of each level completed. I suppose I could do something similar, but instead of a code, make that the save state. It would be MUCH smaller as I'd have much less data to keep track of. Of course, the issue then is you only get to save at the end of each level.

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Hmm, I think that Doom 32X actually doesn't have any saving, and instead just lets you choose from any of the levels at the start. It doesn't have save memory or passwords or anything.

But anyway, something like that, saving between levels, is probably about the best you could do. Maybe also have a save anywhere' option as well for if you have a CD Backup RAM Cart inserted?

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Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

Really? Then why is Kega's save file 64KB? I thought those files were usually the proper size...

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Because SRAM is on every other byte, and save files of emulators simply store the whole range rather than worry about the "other" byte.

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Hmm, I think that Doom 32X actually doesn't have any saving, and instead just lets you choose from any of the levels at the start. It doesn't have save memory or passwords or anything.

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I was thinking of Doom PSX. I even cracked their code so you could give it made up codes that gave you weapons, armor, keys, different levels...

The idea still applies.

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But anyway, something like that, saving between levels, is probably about the best you could do. Maybe also have a save anywhere' option as well for if you have a CD Backup RAM Cart inserted?

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Yeah. That could be done.

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Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

Because SRAM is on every other byte, and save files of emulators simply store the whole range rather than worry about the "other" byte.

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Huh, weird. But the Sega CD files are the proper 8KB, not doubled... and I'm pretty sure that that is an 8KB space -- the CD Backup RAM Cart file is 128KB as it should be. Are all the 8KB cart SRAM files (probably the most common size) actually 4KB, or does this just apply to some files?

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I was thinking of Doom PSX. I even cracked their code so you could give it made up codes that gave you weapons, armor, keys, different levels...

The idea still applies.

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Ah, I see... yeah, definitely.

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Yeah. That could be done.

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Seems like the best solution, really. Keep the on-system one as small as possible and only between levels, but allow full saving if you have the card.

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Originally Posted by A Black Falcon

Huh, weird. But the Sega CD files are the proper 8KB, not doubled... and I'm pretty sure that that is an 8KB space -- the CD Backup RAM Cart file is 128KB as it should be. Are all the 8KB cart SRAM files (probably the most common size) actually 4KB, or does this just apply to some files?

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No idea off hand - I'd have to check the code out in the emu (if it's open source). I imagine it has to do with whether or not the emu recognizes the SRAM info in the ROM header as valid, and how it then interprets that info. There are two longs that give the start and end addresses of the SRAM, and a byte that gives the width and which byte is the one to read.

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Seems like the best solution, really. Keep the on-system one as small as possible and only between levels, but allow full saving if you have the card.

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Right. I need to get a CD SRAM cart sometime. :)

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Originally Posted by tomaitheous

And if it weren't for Sonic 2, you'd probably never have seen it on your Genesis either. The same downside applies to the Genesis as well - requires twice as much vram for a correct aspect ratio. But it doesn't mean either systems can't output an interlaced signal.

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I know this. I just want to see a real, legit SNES game interlace (not a hacker demo) at some point. Were there any?

I just wanted to say that even if you couldn't sell this on a cart or CD, I really like what you have done. This is excellent work, and I look forward to what else you can do on the system. Great job!

Okay, a brief update for folks watching this...

I've got the cart reseting properly now. It also seems more stable starting up on real hardware. That version hasn't been posted yet as I'm still looking at music.

I'm currently working on the base code for the CD version... which is why I haven't got any music yet. Only so much time to spare. :)

Since the main change since the last beta is just the reset, I figure it isn't worth an update yet. If folks DO want that, just post and I'll spend a few minutes to make an update.

Wow... I didn't think anyone was homebrewing for the 32X these days... I always felt that the release of the Saturn may have hendered the ensentive for game developers to really push the 32X.

The game looks pretty neat Fusion 3.61 emulator. Great stuff and very unexpected.

My friend asked me today about which version of Wolfenstein to get, out of the blue.

I told him: Get the 32x version! :P

This is something I'd look into if it were available on an actual cartridge.

Wonder how the cd version is coming along i cant wait to play it on the real console.

I've got some other stuff I am working on right now, so it'll be a little while before I have time for the 32X stuff. Just delayed, not canceled. :)

I demand a Saturn port ! =P

- seriously, I think that'd be awesome.

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Originally Posted by Diosoth

This is something I'd look into if it were available on an actual cartridge.

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Legally, it'd be possible to produce & sell a cart with the shareware version.

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

I demand a Saturn port ! =P

- seriously, I think that'd be awesome.

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I need to pick up a Saturn some time. I probably will look into Saturn homebrew eventually, but I'll stick with 32X for the moment.

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Legally, it'd be possible to produce & sell a cart with the shareware version.

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Well, I'm not to sure about the legalities of selling shareware software... more like sell the cart, which just happened to have the shareware on it. It think that's how they do that at stores with the $5 shareware CDs: you're paying for the media and the work, not the game. With something like Wolf32X, I'd also have to make sure I followed the GPL and kept the game source available (not an issue for me since I do that anyway).

If I was interested in making some carts for the Genesis, it'd be a programmable cart. Seriously, the most expensive part is the PCB, so making rom carts is hardly cheaper that making flash carts. Flash carts would also sell better. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

I've got some other stuff I am working on right now, so it'll be a little while before I have time for the 32X stuff. Just delayed, not canceled. :)

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What else are you working on? If you don't mind me asking....Is it homebrew related?

its probably called a strategy+role playing game called "Real Life" :P

I'm (trying) to make a PPC OSX PSP toolchain for someone, something else I can't talk about, and EDuke32 for the PSP... in additional to RL. :D

If people watch ps2dev, they'll remember I made a PSP version of OpenAL a while back. That was part of what I was working on for EDuke32... which turns out to not really need it. OpenAL is only used on the Mac and Windows to mix the music buffers. Nothing else. Maybe they eventually plan to do full 3D sound effects in EDuke32 using it, but eventually isn't now. :)

Okay, beta 5 is now posted. The main feature this time is mouse support. I know some folks hate playing a FPS with a pad, so now you can use your mouse... assuming you have one. :)

If I dowload this to a flash cart, will it be Mega Mouse compatible? :p

there is a chance of getting mouse support......

it seems it should be there alreadt :P need to read posts more, lol

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Originally Posted by Chilly Willy

Okay, beta 5 is now posted. The main feature this time is mouse support. I know some folks hate playing a FPS with a pad, so now you can use your mouse... assuming you have one. :)

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ETA on 32xcd release?