PC-Engine Discussion Thread.

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Originally Posted by Prince Talmit

Having some Japanese text does not equate to "being inaccessible" as was stated in the post I responded to.
I can't think of one single PC-Engine game I wished to play that I was not able to play and enjoy because of it not being released in the West.

Outside of the 1990's, does anyone care if the Mega Drive has possibly better gfx or sound? I can't imagine why it should be a competition - the advertising and bragging rights died decades ago.

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You miss out on so much when not being able to understand the story or whats happing in the game, more so for an RPG I'm gutted that the likes of 3X3 Eyes or Shadowrun, Laughing Salesman only came out on the Mega CD in Japan, I bought the 2 Lunars on import from Japan for my Mega CD, but I also got the USA versions as I was simply missing out on what was happing in the games
And I'm one who thinks the Snes was better than either the Mega Drive or PC-Eng, but when I play shooters nothing really comes close to Gynoug or Thunder Force IV on the PC-Eng 'for me'. The Mega Drive extra hardware makes the difference and yes I do like games not only to play well, but also push the Gfx and sound depts too

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Originally Posted by Prince Talmit

Outside of the 1990's, does anyone care if the Mega Drive has possibly better gfx or sound? I can't imagine why it should be a competition - the advertising and bragging rights died decades ago.

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Great point. I'm much more interested in what 16-bit games have to offer in terms of gameplay and not so interested in what console they are on. Of course, it's interesting to see how developers coped with hardware limitations (or failed to), but every system offers at least something interesting.

Language is only a problem for RPG or text-heavy games, doesn't matter at all for the rest imo.

I wonder what chinitosoccer thinks of the PCE nowdays.

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Originally Posted by Gryson

Great point. I'm much more interested in what 16-bit games have to offer in terms of gameplay and not so interested in what console they are on. Of course, it's interesting to see how developers coped with hardware limitations (or failed to), but every system offers at least something interesting.

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Yeah but hardware always helps a developer to do more and better gfx and sound will always add to a good game, not take away. To me they weren't much difference between what the PC Eng and Mega Drive could do and for me, the MD also had the upper had in the shooters. When it came to the CD-Add On's to me the Mega CD was far better and far more capable system (when it was used) compared to the CD-Rom2

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Originally Posted by Vludi

Language is only a problem for RPG or text-heavy games, doesn't matter at all for the rest imo.

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True to a point, but it can still be a pain in some cases, not just on RPG's. My Japanese Import of Time Gal on the Mega CD give me some trouble when you had to select an option at times and that was just an FMV. I found Wonderboy IV to be a bit of a pain to play in Japanese on my Mega Drive and was gutted with SEGA not bring that stunning game to the west. I even found Silhouette Mirage to be hard work on my Saturn. That said it can make next to no difference. I only ever had the 1st two Panzer Dragoon games on Import and in full Japanese and it never bother me tbh

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Yeah but hardware always helps a developer to do more and better gfx and sound will always add to a good game, not take away. To me they weren't much difference between what the PC Eng and Mega Drive could do and for me, the MD also had the upper had in the shooters. When it came to the CD-Add On's to me the Mega CD was far better and far more capable system (when it was used) compared to the CD-Rom2




True to a point, but it can still be a pain in some cases, not just on RPG's. My Japanese Import of Time Gal on the Mega CD give me some trouble when you had to select an option at times and that was just an FMV. I found Wonderboy IV to be a bit of a pain to play in Japanese on my Mega Drive and was gutted with SEGA not bring that stunning game to the west. I even found Silhouette Mirage to be hard work on my Saturn. That said it can make next to no difference. I only ever had the 1st two Panzer Dragoon games on Import and in full Japanese and it never bother me tbh

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If you value realtime effects/pixelization over genuine artwork, then you should have loved the experiences provided by Jaguar and 3DO even more than SNES.

I think the biggest limiting factor for the PC Engine from the start was the HuCard system. Without the ability to use more ROM chips, enhancement chips, and memory, there was no ability to expand the power and resources available to the games later down the line like we saw with the SNES and Genesis. A proper cartridge allows for larger boards, more ICs, and more complex engineering. The CD addon was like upgrading from a drinking glass to a reservoir, but still only being able to drink with a straw, due to the slow transport speed and lack of RAM, which was admittedly absurdly expensive at the time.

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Originally Posted by Raijin Z

I think the biggest limiting factor for the PC Engine from the start was the HuCard system. Without the ability to use more ROM chips, enhancement chips, and memory, there was no ability to expand the power and resources available to the games later down the line like we saw with the SNES and Genesis. A proper cartridge allows for larger boards, more ICs, and more complex engineering. The CD addon was like upgrading from a drinking glass to a reservoir, but still only being able to drink with a straw, due to the slow transport speed and lack of RAM, which was admittedly absurdly expensive at the time.

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HuCards can include those things and some did. The PCE wasn't fighting a worldwide tech war and publishers just made games of various budgets for the sake of it. As it is, there are already way too many PCE games featuring pixelization-an-art-form. If you like scaling, rotation, mosaic, transparency, raster, polgonal, morphing, etc, you'll find it in a lot of PCE games. Thankfully, you'll still find much more legitinate art and anination.

The hardware was good enough for the time as even SNES games with accelerator chips didn't handle more action than so many PCE games did and it has major bandwidth for color/detail and animation. It can display a massive amount of sprites with a massive amount of frames at once, while no chips addressed the numerous sprite bottlenecks the SNES has.

Quality of software wasn't an issue, there are just a lot of English speaking 16-bit fans who have a preconceived notion of how things are supposed to work (1 company, 1 hardware configuration, 1 first party, etc) and/or are afraid of the language barrier. Back in the 90's and early 2000's, people loved taking on Japanese RPGs and misc games for all consoles and it helped make GameFAQs such a big place for a while. Now most people are spoiled and would rather ignore great software they won't try than acknowledge it.

The PCE hardware doesn't work the same way the SNES or Genesis does and it doesn't need lots of ram to perform the way those consoles do. Existing games prove this, even if we ignore the tech experts. The only thing it lost out on without more ram is long loading times in budget-cart games. I don't know why in this day and age people still believe in so many urband legends when demystified info, roms/isos and vast game footage has been freely available for so long.

I'd have preferred games where I could save my progress without a notebook full of nearly identical characters, and games at least as complex as Final Fantasy. The biggest actual problem was that NEC hired people with the education, but no experience, and by the time they got comfortable with the system, oops, time for 32bit.

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Originally Posted by Black_Tiger

If you value realtime effects/pixelization over genuine artwork, then you should have loved the experiences provided by Jaguar and 3DO even more than SNES.

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I value all good artwork in games, to be honest, and yes I'm a huge fan of and I love my 3DO. Never was impressed with the Jag, sadly it was under used and poorly supported and by the end of 1993 I was gearing up for the Saturn and Neo Geo CD both of which, were in in a class of its own for 2D artwork in games

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The PCE wasn't fighting a worldwide tech war and publishers just made games of various budgets for the sake of it

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NEC did try and fight the tech war now and again, it knew the Mega Drive was more capable than the PC-Eng that's why we NEC came up with the Super Graxf to try and counter SEGA. I really can't think of any shooter on the PC-Eng that out does anything on the MD or comes close to Thunder Foce IV and even Sonic on its small 4Mbites Cart just did so much more than any PC Eng Platform game I could think or have played

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Thankfully, you'll still find much more legitinate art and anination.

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Mega Drive games did have good art and frames of animation. I never saw PC Eng game as well animated as Aladdin truth be told and Popful mail on the Mega CD is simply a better looking and better-animated game than its CD Rom2 rival, that's what a little more RAM can give the developer if they choose to use it.

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Originally Posted by Raijin Z

I'd have preferred games where I could save my progress without a notebook full of nearly identical characters, and games at least as complex as Final Fantasy. The biggest actual problem was that NEC hired people with the education, but no experience, and by the time they got comfortable with the system, oops, time for 32bit.

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What source do you have for your claims about NEC's hiring? I'm genuinely interested. I thought many of the developers had experience with PC-88 or other platforms before PCE.

Passwords were sometimes a pain in the butt, but that was something present across all platforms of the late 80's. Later PC-Engine releases allowed saving game data to external devices, and a couple Hu-Cards have battery backup. ..Populous, and ..?

Not sure what you mean regarding Final Fantasy. I'm not an active RPG player, but I know there are quite a few popular RPGs on the PCE, maybe not yet translated, but I'd be surprised if there isn't a handful which outclass the original FF.

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Originally Posted by Team Andromeda

Popful mail on the Mega CD is simply a better looking and better-animated game than its CD Rom2 rival, that's what a little more RAM can give the developer if they choose to use it.

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This is unfair, two entirely different teams, and the PCE version is meant to look like the original PC-88 game.

What about Lords of Thunder? Much better looking on the PCE even though it was made using the same art assets. Bomberman 94? Substantially better looking on the PCE. If you consider ports of first party games to be an unfair comparison, then what about AfterBurner 2? A SEGA game? Looks massively better on the PCE with even the scaling on the aircraft carrier intact.

Things aren't as black and white as you like to make them TA.

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Originally Posted by Kamahl

This is unfair, two entirely different teams, and the PCE version is meant to look like the original PC-88 game.

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Fair point, when it comes Poptfulmail even the FMV parts are better on Mega CD version, like every Mega CD game did FMV better than the PC Eng version with Sherlock Homes ect , I'm guessing the bigger frame buffer helped matters.

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What about Lords of Thunder? Much better looking on the PCE even though it was made using the same art assets

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I would expect the makers of the PC Eng tech to push that system harder than on a SEGA and tbh I don't think Loads of Thunder is a great looking game on either the PC Eng or Mega CD. They're both horrible outclassed by the likes of Thunder Force IV or Ranger X on a humble cart on the Mega Drive imo

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If you consider ports of first party games to be an unfair comparison, then what about AfterBurner 2?

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To quote you for a sec

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two entirely different teams

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SEGA played no part with the Mega Drive port of AB II While I will say the PC Eng version features more ground detail, the Mega Drive version features better speed, plays better looks overall that bit better and sounds better for me . But we can use the odd game to suit our needs, is Altered Beast and Golden Axe better on the PC Eng or Mega Drive, or better yet Strider on the Arcade card vs the humble 1 Meg Mega Drive version?. To me there was nothing on the PC Eng that the Mega Drive couldn't do or do better and also for me the Mega Drive had the better shooters.

I admire NEC for making sure a powerful small machine in 87 and the space age jump that was a CD system in 88, but I couldn't get into the system that much and for me the Mega Drive was always better

NEC PC Engine+CD is a bad ass console with some seriously sick titles.

Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't know their Rayxanber III...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vjoW2o_mfc

I'm glad the thread title was changed, because the PC-Engine most definitely does not suck.