Castlevania Bloodlines

OK, you guys all know the first & third NES Castlevania games are the Gold standard for this series... well at least classic series, as when it went all Metroidvania on us, it also went all pure crap outside of graphics & sounds (well, maybe except CitM? As at least that one attempts to be actually balanced and even provides a challenge instead of the broken mess all the other ones are >_<).

Now when we compare the other classic Castlevania games to the Gold standard of the seires, only the Bloodlines, the Sharp PC remake, and SNES Dracula X (though most don't like this one) come close to that Gold standard. SV IV. Broken. Rondo. Broken.

It's as simple as that, folks. But it still shouldn't mean that you can't prefer these flawed games more. ie. Most folks prefer/enjoy Rondo on PCE over the SNES port because of graphics and presentation alone. The one area I wish that team didn't focus all their effort into. Another sad tale of style over substance.

Another pattern I noticed is that whatever project IGA was part of = disaster. He even screwed with my beloved Gradius series when he put his hands on Otomedius X. :Panda: These games with him are PCE Rondo and every Metroidvania and except CitM (surprise, surprise).



Back to Bloodlines. Very well done game and the best 16-Bit vania game without a doubt. At first I didn't realize this back in the day when I had it and bought into the gaming mags of them days propaganda of it not being as good as SC IV because you couldn't whip in every direction anymore (weird that this issue didn't phase Rondo whatsoever? Also, this propaganda brain washing continues today just as strong). That and the game seemed way to hard as I was getting used to some of the more pussy easy 32-Bit era of gaming, thus I gave up on it and never seen what lay past stage 2, lol. And went on to the conclusion that the gaming mags of them days (namely EGM) were right, that SC IV is still the best (thought I only played and beat SC IV once with no interest to ever replay it. And when I beat it, it dragged over the course of a few days via password system as I really wasn't in the mood for it). I started both these 16-Bit vania games late as I finally found them used. First was SC IV, quickly followed by Bloodlines next.

One thing that really bothered me about SC IV was the graphics. I read EGM praise them graphics for what seemed like forever. Only to be insanely let down when I finally had the game. As I kept playing I kept going, I kid not "Where are the awesome graphics? When will I reach them?" Well that finally happened when I seen that Gold stage near the very end.

Anyways, fast forward ahead quite a bit of time into the days of emulations. I also started looking at games & studying them from a perspective of gameplay design & difficulty balance, and to this day I keep an eye on this + learn more and more about it. I finally also start taking another look at the Castlevania series. And finally see that the muti-direction whipping in SC IV for the mess it really is. Playing Bloodlines I'm shocked to see at how well done of a game it was and curse that I never gave the game a chance back in the day. I also finally get to play the much talked PCE Rondo game and see the true reason why it's so talked about.

THE END

I never got the complaint that you can't "whip" in 8 direction in Bloodlines. The game gives you two characters, Moris with the standard whip, and Eric with the spear (which can be used in multiple directions).
The game gives you both, what is there to complain? It even lacks the wiggly stupidity you can do in SCV IV.

The only things I don't like are the weird colour choices and the really obvious staircase positioning issue (these two imply the game was somewhat rushed). Konami put less effort into it than it did on SCV IV and that sucks, because RKA and Contra HC show what Konami could do on the genesis when it gave a damn.

Don't get what you mean about Rondo being broken though, you mean too easy? Dracula X is a much better looking game than Rondo, so I dunno what you mean by all the effort going into graphics. People prefer Rondo because it simply has more to it. More and better levels, more prisoners to rescue, an extra character to play as. Nobody likes the horrible, cheaply made cutscenes (except the first, kinda cool one).

Castlevania Bloodlines is my favorite Castlevania after SotN.
Plays much better and much more faster than Super Castlevania IV.
I wanted to redo some graphics of this game, but unfortunately the graphics are all compressed...

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Originally Posted by Kamahl

I never got the complaint that you can't "whip" in 8 direction in Bloodlines. The game gives you two characters, Moris with the standard whip, and Eric with the spear (which can be used in multiple directions).
The game gives you both, what is there to complain? It even lacks the wiggly stupidity you can do in SCV IV.

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This is something I find very genius about Bloodlines. Instead of giving you every direction whipping per character, they split it between two characters (ie. if you could switch between both characters on the fly, you basically have access to whipping in every direction to handle everything in the game best. Instead the way it is now, only one character is better in certain situation, greatly adding to replay and variety). I mean come on, it's bloody brilliant! :D

Bloodlines does not get the credit it deserves. I still hate Konami for half-assing it but it's still such an amazing game (I certainly enjoy playing it more than SCV IV, which is way too easy and slow paced).

Thanks to Pyron we now have a patch that fixes the colours, finally giving us the Castlevania we deserved all those years ago.

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Originally Posted by Kamahl

Bloodlines does not get the credit it deserves. I still hate Konami for half-assing it but it's still such an amazing game (I certainly enjoy playing it more than SCV IV, which is way too easy and slow paced).

Thanks to Pyron we now have a patch that fixes the colours, finally giving us the Castlevania we deserved all those years ago.

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i don't like some changes that Pyron did (some ugly colors), but undoubtedly there was a big improvement over the original.

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Originally Posted by LinkueiBR

i don't like some changes that Pyron did (some ugly colors), but undoubtedly there was a big improvement over the original.

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There's only so much you can do. The damn game uses some retarded colours shared by many elements, the best colour for one of them might make the others even worse.

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Originally Posted by Thief

Now when we compare the other classic Castlevania games to the Gold standard of the seires, only the Bloodlines, the Sharp PC remake, and SNES Dracula X (though most don't like this one) come close to that Gold standard. SV IV. Broken. Rondo. Broken.

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http://malialitman.files.wordpress.c...g-shit-two.png

I did bad at Rondo therefore it's broken. No.

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

http://malialitman.files.wordpress.c...g-shit-two.png

I did bad at Rondo therefore it's broken. No.

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What? Broken is supposed to mean much closer to stupid easy (I did beat Rondo for both PCE & PSP remake... too bad there's no difficulty increase or second loop to keep me going...). Rondo isn't very hard, you know that, right? It not looping or there an extra difficulty setting is the worst thing about this game, in my opinion. Was really hoping the PSP would address this issue. But IGA like his games very easy.

One of my fave example for broken is SotN. The further you make it into the game, the easier it gets. ie. First time I reached Dracula, he never got one hit on me. I kid not... and yes, my epeen is tingling. :D

Oh, you must be thinking AVGN line of thought. Where he cries about stuff like knockbacks always knocking him into a pit and how not fair or maybe broken it is. Yeah, no. Nice try though.

I for one actually prefer vania games with knockbacks and some spice, extra difficulty levels and hidden loops to keep me playing and always coming back for more. I even proved this by trying the easy mode first introduced for the Japanese cart re-release of this game, which removes knockbacks. And yeah. I didn't like it one bit. And much happier that the game does have knockbacks. I mean, it's not a very long game. Challenge & extra loops was how we got our moneys worth back in them days.


PS - by the way, that post back there was also a retrospective of my opinion of these games up till today. You don't have to agree? ... But you would be wrong to do so. :D

No difficulty setting in Chi No Rondo? It's indeed a downer. Also no loop? Heh, the game seems already kinda easy with a lame final boss... & Maria makes things even easier!



Then about visuals, Dracula XX is the most polished of all Castlevania games of the era but that doesn't mean it has the best art (Art > how advanced graphics can be). A lot of Chi No Rondo's sceneries look like NES, 8-bit graphics but most of its sprites look great with detailled animations (In fact it's the best part of this game).



Music-wise Vampire Killer tops all others IMO with SC IV coming at the 2nd place. I'm not fan of Chi No Rondo's music & prefer the new renditions of Dracula XX.



Vampire Killer is a fantastic game in the serie with its own, darker mood (The whole 1st stage! <3 ) + unusual plot (Travelling through several countries is a nice alternative) + a faster, more Arcadey gameplay, everything i love!

The only complaints i would have about it are some rare instances of visual laziness & a very few bad sounding SFX. But those instances of visual laziness are compensated by some impressive / inspired visual effects : rotation; transparency... + that sweet mirror effect on the water @beginning of the 2nd stage!

Luckily enough i've bought the Japanese version of this game just before it reaches stupid prices. Damn i hate what happened to retro-VG market...

There was a French guy some time ago on romhacking.net that put his hand on an unreleased beta version of Bloodlines, with original but unfinished stages, and who seeked help to make it a working game. He said he found someone to help him. I wonder which point they reached now.

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Originally Posted by o.pwuaioc

Some newbie isn't content to let a dead hose go unbeat.

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The Genesis came out in the '80s bro. It's all been talked about before. Ease up.

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Originally Posted by Kamahl

Bloodlines does not get the credit it deserves. I still hate Konami for half-assing it but it's still such an amazing game (I certainly enjoy playing it more than SCV IV, which is way too easy and slow paced).

Thanks to Pyron we now have a patch that fixes the colours, finally giving us the Castlevania we deserved all those years ago.

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I have yet to beat Bloodlines, but SCV IV I used to beat 2 loops with 1 life, and frankly it got boring. I like the game, and the music, but I wasn't getting challenged anymore. That's a reason I beat SotN a few times, then retired the game, and did it again when I got the PSP Drac X Chronicles. I speed ran through the game as quick as possible with Alucard, got bored with using Richter as I had beaten the game with him on the PS1 version, and played through with Maria.

CV 1, 3, CV Chronicles, aka the X68K Castlevania game, and Bloodlines are always good to go back to, though Bloodlines isn't nearly as tough as those old CV titles. But it sure gives me troubles (probably because I got used to the infinite continues the older titles gave).

Actually reading your post you didn't even mention why Rondo was broken, you just said it was broken.

Easier difficulty != broken however. Castlevania 1, 2 and 3 are more on the scale of brutally difficult other than fair, balanced difficulty, and whilst I don't subscribe to the theory of knockback = unfair since a lot of platform games have it, Castlevania is the only one where you get knocked back straight into a pit almost all the time, Ninja Gaiden doesn't have that except on the last few stages.

Also the control in NES Castlevania is so unbelievably stiff, the control over your character in SCIV, Bloodlines and Rondo is far superior.

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Originally Posted by tryphon

There was a French guy some time ago on romhacking.net that put his hand on an unreleased beta version of Bloodlines, with original but unfinished stages, and who seeked help to make it a working game. He said he found someone to help him. I wonder which point they reached now.

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Please tell me your not kidding. This is one of the best news I've ever heard!

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Originally Posted by Bloodreign

CV 1, 3, CV Chronicles, aka the X68K Castlevania game, and Bloodlines are always good to go back to, though Bloodlines isn't nearly as tough as those old CV titles. But it sure gives me troubles (probably because I got used to the infinite continues the older titles gave).

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Yes, sadly it's not. But at least it's better on the difficulty front then Rondo & SC IV. I also always found SC IV very hard to play in a single session. It never manages to hold my interest long enough, especially with how long it is. Yet Bloodlines is way more interesting to always keep going when I return to it, but sadly isn't as long, lol. What a terrible curse.

The X68k Castlevania game most certainly seems in line with the classic vania difficulty. It even seemed like it could be one of thee hardest in the series, period? (Made it as far as the clocktower stage last I played it).

And that's what I love about Castlevania 1,3, Bloodlines, X68k, first two GameBoy released vania games, and Rebirth. These are the only Castlevania games where you can always come back too, because they follow or stick to the Gold vania standard much more closely. All those that stray too much, suffer in replay and/or fun factor too much.

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Originally Posted by Gogogadget

Actually reading your post you didn't even mention why Rondo was broken, you just said it was broken.

Easier difficulty != broken however. Castlevania 1, 2 and 3 are more on the scale of brutally difficult other than fair, balanced difficulty, and whilst I don't subscribe to the theory of knockback = unfair since a lot of platform games have it, Castlevania is the only one where you get knocked back straight into a pit almost all the time, Ninja Gaiden doesn't have that except on the last few stages.

Also the control in NES Castlevania is so unbelievably stiff, the control over your character in SCIV, Bloodlines and Rondo is far superior.

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If you would of beat original PCE version of Rondo, you would of seen IGA's name involved in the credits. And I've already stated all games with this guy involved in some form = too easy of a game. Now IGA wasn't really involved directly with Rondo from what I recall? But more of a playtester from what I can gather. As he ended up falling for a girl on the team (who I think he eventually married too?), and this chick would always bring a version of the game for him to try out during dev time (she loved doing this from what I recall). And well, I really think IGA sucks at games + he always states what he really loves about the vania games is the graphics, anyways. So I have this wild guess that the chick kept pushing the team to make it easier and focus on better looking from time to time just to better please IGA. lol. Yes, it's a wild hunch, I know. So please don't take it as truth.


Castlevania 1 is far from brutal difficulty (not sure of part II? But seems in line with part 1 from the little I've played it? Besides, it's got RPG leveling elements which means you could always grind to victory to remove most if not all challenge, just like most RPGs). The two vania games that seem could fall in this category, as I have yet to beat them, are Castlevania III NES version and X68k remake of the first game.

I haven't yet played much of Ninja Gaiden, but I have this hunch that it should be quite a bit harder then the NES vania games and just as much knockbacks. So I don't believe you here as of yet.


And I don't know, I don't always get knocked back into pits in any vania game either. You must really suck or something if you think this game really abuses that? Or maybe believe the BS AVGN inserts in some of his vids? (He does this on purpose to make the episodes seem more interesting) All enemies have patterns. So most, if not all, of these knockback deaths should be avoidable. If not, lesson should be learned after one knockback death & always avoided afterwards anyways.