At least Bloodlines didn't need to be PG-13 to get approved on a Sega console.
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At least Bloodlines didn't need to be PG-13 to get approved on a Sega console.
I'll touch on a few different things I've read from you, Spunkwater.
You don't like John Morris, and don't like the whip control. That's fine, and you're not alone to be sure. But there's nothing wrong with the controls themselves. You hit jump, they jump right away. Hit attack, and they attack immediately. No sluggish controls, no horrid hit detection... the controls are just fine. So how the they're "asinine," and Morris is "nigh-unplayable," is still a mystery to me. But, since we're throwing caution to the wind and letting the conjecture fly, here are some speculation bits that stand just as much of a chance at being correct as what you've been fervently backing...
- Rondo of Blood had two characters to play as (Richter and Maria) before Bloodlines did. Castlevania III had a small family of them to use before Rondo. Bloodlines follows suit. Why? More characters, more replayablility (in theory), and more ways to handle the levels and enemies in question. So having a pair of different characters to use already had a history with the franchise before Bloodlines came about, and it doesn't feel like it was forced just to include a "normal" Castlevania hero. On that note...
- John Morris can be used from start to finish. All enemies can be readily beaten, and all bosses can be just as easily defeated with him when compared to Lecarde. The levels can be traversed without any more overall difficulty over Lecarde, with each character having some areas that they can get through more easily than the other character. That doesn't strike me as Morris being tacked on at the last minute. Seems to me, the game makers had both characters there from the beginning, and planned the levels accordingly.
- Two different weapons, and two different characters, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. Why make them have different attributes? Because making them identical wouldn't have made sense. Half of the point of having more than one character to choose from is to make playing through the game feel a bit different with each character. So, Lecarde can high jump using his spear and stab diagonally on the ground, but can't stab diagonally in the air. Meanwhile, Morris can whip diagonally in the air and swing from his whip, but can't whip diagonally on the ground, or high jump. However, both can stab down when airborne to get at enemies below them, which is the one special feature they both share as far as using their normal weapons (a feature many people liked if I recall, so giving it to both characters makes sense). Factor in the two different powered up sub-weapon attacks, and now you've got two characters, different pros and cons, and the player can choose which one they like more. It adds variety and weaknesses to overcome, without being game breaking, as opposed to having one all-powerful character that can do everything both characters can do.
- Having the only two selectable Bloodlines characters be identical attack-wise, would be like having Ryu and Ken be exactly the same if they were the only selectable characters in Street Fighter II. What would the point be, outside of wasting memory? There'd be no different challenges, no different ways to deal with enemies... it would just be a pallet swap at heart, and that's just a lazy way to do things (as Capcom showed us in Street Fighter). So, we got our differences between Morris and Lecarde (nothing too drastic, but differences... as bit like Ryu and Ken in SF II), yet both can be used to beat the game just as readily. It's simply a matter of whose pros and cons mesh with your play style the best.
As I said, I can understand your dislike of Morris and how his whip controls. But I just don't agree with some of what you've been asserting. To me, nothing controls badly, nothing feels like an afterthought, and the differences between the characters makes sense, as they add replay value and different gameplay experiences... IMHO of course.
Oh, and as an aside, I agree that SCV IV is a great entry. It's a fun game with nice graphics, good music (though it's probably close to the middle of my personal "favorite Castlevania OSTs" list), and solid gameplay. The dangling/twirling whip idea was quite cool, but it isn't really a "required to win" tactic anywhere, so it feels more like an extra feature rather than a needed one that's vital to the gameplay. Also, I agree that the multi directional whip mechanic was a great addition. But I guess where we differ is that I don't feel it had to be in every Castlevania game since SCV IV. It was a feature for the SNES game, and the likes of Rondo and Bloodlines not having it didn't bother me.
My main complaint with SCV IV is that's it's considerably easier than the games that came before and after it. I know there's a code to boost the difficulty, but even that doesn't quite make it on par with the solid challenges other entries offered... again, IMHO.
As Polonius would say, albeit ironically: "Brevity is the soul of wit."
Let me clear this up, because I don't think I've expressed it properly: I don't think the game controls poorly. It controls well. The buttons work. They're supposed to work, but responsive controls don't mean much when Morris gets bent over the pommel horse because he's fighting enemies that were clearly programmed for Eric Lacarde's more sophisticated control setup. The problem is that John Morris is programmed to perform for an 8-bit CV game, and an 8-bit CV game this is not.
Also, I'm not seeing why we have to limit the controls of one character or another. Why couldn't the difference lie in the way their weapons function, rather than in the basic attacks they can perform? It makes no damn sense to remove basic attacks like attacking diagonally or straight up and down, whether it be jumping or standing. It does make sense to give them certain special maneuvers/abilities and it would've differentiated them enough that Sega fans wouldn't be deluding themselves with apologetic arguments why Bloodlines is one of the best CV games.
On a personal note, what I find really amusing is that all my friends hate Bloodlines. Hate it. Absolutely hate it. We did a playthrough with Morris last weekend and they all thought the game was rubbish, and meanwhile I insisted the game was more fun with Lacarde. They wouldn't have any of it. They thought I was nuts.
So here I am, cutting the game to shreds on Sega-16 and defending it to my Gamer buddies. Sometimes it's funny how things work.
Then there's the argument that the multi-directional whip of Super Castlevania IV breaks the game, not to mention the pacing of that one is a lot more drawn out than Bloodlines.
There's nothing wrong with John Morris and the way he controls. It means you actually have to think how to kill an awkwardly placed enemy, as opposed to just flicking your whip upwards. There's been some good discussion on Shmups.com about this with several decent players passing their opinions on the matter. The only time I said 'WTF where is my directional whip'? was back in '94 when the game first dropped, after I had played through SCIV. But then it only took a couple of creds to realise what was up (I'd never played any of the NES versions).
Considering the game is too easy anyway (on defaults), I don't see what the problem is. I've made it to Dracula without taking a single hit, and I'm pretty sure if I wasn't such a lazy fuck I could no-miss that bitch too.
Some of the tricks you can do when swinging on the whip (killing an enemy, hitting two candles and collecting the items when they are on a level above you, all without touching the ground by using multiple swings) is testament to how well Morris controls. Let's not forget the role of the missile weapons in covering your front arc when pressing up at the same time either, you don't think this was taken into account when designing the levels?
At the end of the day it boils down to personal preference, but despite the graphics and music instrumentation being superior on the SNES game, I think Bloodlines absolutely wipes the floor with it in terms of playability. The pacing is more like an arcade title as well, which makes sense being on MD/Genesis and is still one of the best playing games in the genre on the console, IMO.
http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/upload...lasses-Gif.gif
Nothing really inferior about Castlevania MD music instrumentation overall, considering the pre 1989 MD chip http://youtu.be/9tmzH_gljl0?t=1m34s
I wear your indictment like a badge of honor, sir! Haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornelius Spunkwater
It's also the key to misunderstandings on the Internet ;). Which leads me too...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornelius Spunkwater
CV:B is a step up in level and enemy complexity, sure, but Morris isn't exactly strictly 8-bit either. Between his diagonal whipping and super weapon, he can handle everything the game throws at him. With Bloodlines though, and this is just from my own personal experience, waiting a moment or two instead jumping right in helps. Everything presents an opening to be attacked, even if it's not right away. At least, that's what I found when I stopped trying to rush through it to reach a valuable checkpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornelius Spunkwater
Of course, others speedrun the hell out of it and blaze through without issue. But I've always sucked at attempting speedruns, so... yeah. Slower worked for me.
Some say it's one of the best? Not sure about that myself. It's a good, solid game with nice graphics and some great tunes, no doubt. But it's under the likes of Rondo, Symphony, CV III, and maybe one or two others for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornelius Spunkwater
Hm, isn't it? Writing reviews for horrid games leaves me in a somewhat similar boat. You end up shifting gears from talking about how bad it is, to talking about the few things that work so they don't get lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornelius Spunkwater
For 16-bit Castlevanias, I'd say Rondo Of Blood > Bloodlines > Castlevania 4.
Castlevania 4 just lacks badassness.
In the world of traditional CVs, there's nary a character more badass than Simon Belmont.
A list of his achievements:
1.) He tore Dracula a new one in the original CV.
2.) He did it again in Vampire Hunter.
3.) He did it again in Haunted Castle.
4.) He came back and did it AGAIN in CV II, likely because he was bored and "vampire hunter" doesn't look good on a resume.
5.) He learned some new tricks and came back again in CV IV to put the smack down on Dracula.
6.) He returned in Castlevania Chronicles because Dracula just needed some killing.
7.) He returned in Castlevania Judgment only because he heard Dracula would be there.
Simon Belmont's so badass, his occupation reads "Killing Dracula" and his hobbies read "Killing Dracula's buddies."
Wasn't SCV IV a retelling of the first NES CV? That means he went back in time because he wanted to watch himself beat Dracula again, then decided "fuck it" and did it before his old self could.
Damn right! What's with the pretentious, condescending overtones coming from Cornelius? Seems like he's on the wrong forum to be flaming on SEGA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lync
It's funny that he thinks Super Castlevania IV is the best Castlevania game. That's cute. I used to hear that from kids that only owned and wanted Nintendo consoles. There are a number of Castlevania games that the more informed and skilled would rather play, which have already been mentioned. At least Bloodlines doesn't easily bend over for you.
That's the nicest way I could put it.
Castlevania 4 just lacks badassness, as in:
-the game is too easy
-the music isn't dark at all
-no gore
-levels are too fluffy, no fire, no flames, no indigo sunsets
AVGN.Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePrimitive
Not to mention that Chronicles (which has a port and a remake of the X68000 Akumajou Dracula) and Vampire Hunter MSX (just Akumajou Dracula in Japan) are also retellings of the NES CV. Haunted Castle (another game just titled Akumjou Dracula in Japan) has a slightly different story where Dracula kidnaps Simon's girlfriend, but isn't a sequel, and probably isn't canon (though music from it was used in Portrait of Ruin for DS). I also heard that Haunted Castle was designed around the same time as the NES Castlevania.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Coop
You don't think the drums sound weak? I always found the excellent compositions were compromised by a less than stellar instrument set, and a few poor spot FX.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector
That and some bizarre and inappropriate colour choices were the games only failings IMO.
The bosses in Bloodlines are superior to SCIV as well.