Retro Gamer Magazine/Neo-Geo.com fiasco

Don't know how many of you are aware of what's been happening over at the Neo-Geo.com boards, but Stuart Campbell and RG Editor Darran Jones have been posting over there in response to a member's critism of Stuart's Metal Slug "Definitive" article in the latest RG issue.

Stuart's behavior in the thread is shocking. I have never seen a "professional writer" act in such a manner over and over again on a public forum such as this. I'll never look at RG in the same way again to be honest.

It's an insane thread. If you like drama and one upmanship, get comfy:


http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196192

I picked up Retro Gamer yesterday - is this the issue with the handheld gaming retrospective? I didn't see anything about Metal Slug in there!

*burns down WHSmiths*

[edit] This quote, above all else, stood out to me.

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Originally Posted by Author

Actually I'm 41, I've been writing professionally about videogames for 20 years, and I've very likely been playing videogames since before you were born, son.

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:hmm:

No wait, I want to change my answer.

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Seriously, fuck you. Really. Fuck you and your mother. There is NOT ONE MISTAKE in the feature, nor a single meaningful omission, and repeating your cowardly lies from behind a cloak of anonymity can't change that. You can keep calling a horse a pig all you want, it still won't taste of bacon.

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Wow... okay, this thread is fucked up... to describe the behavior of the writer and the neogeo-forum-nerds as arrogant and childish is somewhat of an understatement. Interestingly enough, the editor actually apologized for the writers harsh language in the thread... and then the writer returned and continued hurling insults. Wow. Classy. (To be fair, the starting post was kinda abusive, though I've definitely seen worse...)

It's sad to see such behavior coming from a professional reporter... however, I've come to know quite a number of professional journalists that are great in their respective fields, but can personality-wise only be described as complete and utter pricks. Professional qualities sadly don't equal social qualities... as this thread pretty much shows.

This doesn't diminish the actual quality of his articles (or magazine), but I can understand that you won't be able to see that in them anymore. It's kinda like stopping to eat a dish not because it tastes bad but because you've learned that the way it's made is pretty revolting...

Wow, I so wasted my time... - When do you guys think we will see the first global wars that began as internet arguments ?

Speaking of RGM, how would one go about securing a subscription? I can never find any copies in my area :(

That guy sounds like an idiot. Seriously. What a horrible attitude.

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Originally Posted by Baloo

That guy sounds like an idiot. Seriously. What a horrible attitude.

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Unbelievably so. And he's 41. Scary. You would think a guy would grow up a little bit after so many years.


http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/pictur...&pictureid=820

Anyway, it was recently revealed that Stuart Campbell was using TWO accounts to post as himself. He used EdgeofHeaven to portray somebody else who defended Stuart Campbell's viewpoints. Wow. That is pathetic beyond words.

No doubt Stuart has dug his own grave with sheer hubris and plain stupidity. Talk about getting caught in the act!

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Originally Posted by InternalPrimate

Speaking of RGM, how would one go about securing a subscription? I can never find any copies in my area :(

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I see 'em in Barnes and Nobles all over North County. The Escondido Barnes and Noble in particular always stocks them, although depending on where exactly in San Diego you live that might be a little out of the way for you. I'm pretty sure I've seen them in the Borders in San Diego (Mission Valley) as well, but don't quote me on that.

I don't think much of Stuart Cambells writing, it is poorly researched. I think its lazy and foolish for a print magazine writer to not even check facts that are easily avaliable online - epecially now when fansites like this one are often more in depth and better written than a print magazine can hope to be.

A few issues back there was an article he wrote for Retro Gamer on unreleased games. Except this same exact article was printed in Edge magazine years ago, almost word for word identical. It even has the same mistakes it had in 1999! such as stating that Megadrive Virtua Fighter 2 is virtually impossible to find. Clearly its not even remotely hard to get hold of, and quite how it deserves to be in an article about unreleased games I'm not sure, after all there were literally hundreds of cancelled games for the Megadrive and its add-ons alone!

Its annoying to pay for a magazine, and to get little more than what you'd find on wikipedia. Especially when there are better more knowledgeable people writing about this stuff on the net for nothing. Personally I think Retro Gamer would be better if they sought out actual experts to write specific in-depth articles rather than relying on an journalist who may have little knowlege or even interest on the area of gaming in question. Or they should at least get someone who knows their stuff to proof read articles before going to print, as it seems every issue I read there are glaring mistakes.

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Originally Posted by jerry coeurl

I see 'em in Barnes and Nobles all over North County. The Escondido Barnes and Noble in particular always stocks them, although depending on where exactly in San Diego you live that might be a little out of the way for you. I'm pretty sure I've seen them in the Borders in San Diego (Mission Valley) as well, but don't quote me on that.

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I'm very close to the Borders and Barnes and Noble (you know, the one in Hazard Center?) in Mission Valley. I'll have to go track down an issue of RGM once I get over this flu.

Also, I just read through 9 pages of that Neo Geo thread. Well, the six first pages and the three last pages. My Lord that guy is a d-bag.

Seems like the original post was nitpicking but not mentioning the slowdown in MS 2 and not mentioning the original developers of the series are both pretty grave oversights.

Holy shit is that dude a douchebag though.

good read up till about page 9, then I started just skipping through. RevStu is a douche.

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Originally Posted by steve

Unbelievably so. And he's 41. Scary. You would think a guy would grow up a little bit after so many years.


http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/pictur...&pictureid=820

Anyway, it was recently revealed that Stuart Campbell was using TWO accounts to post as himself. He used EdgeofHeaven to portray somebody else who defended Stuart Campbell's viewpoints. Wow. That is pathetic beyond words.

No doubt Stuart has dug his own grave with sheer hubris and plain stupidity. Talk about getting caught in the act!

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Now that's just plain ridiculous.

Wow, what a fucking baby. It's great to know that the premiere games journalist (lol) in the UK can take time out of his busy day to defend himself on an internet message board by calling people cunts.

Oh god, the neo geo snerds on that forum. Reeeaaaally mature. That forum is infamous. The author of the article put that snerd in his place, but he made the big mistake of loosing his cool/tact (which that forum will jump all over you for like a pack of jackel-nerds).

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Originally Posted by steve

Unbelievably so. And he's 41. Scary. You would think a guy would grow up a little bit after so many years.

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I don't have anything to say about his abilities as a writer, but I do agree that his attitude is highly unprofessional. He treated the posters at NeoGeo.com as though forum posters are entirely divorced from the people who buy the magazine, when that's not true at all. Darren tried to control the damage, but Stuart delights in fanning the flames.

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Originally Posted by playgen

I don't think much of Stuart Cambells writing, it is poorly researched. I think its lazy and foolish for a print magazine writer to not even check facts that are easily avaliable online - epecially now when fansites like this one are often more in depth and better written than a print magazine can hope to be.

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In his defense, you have to remember that magazines are on a deadline, and they don't have the time to research as websites do. I've spent the better part of a year researching my upcoming Sonic 3/Michael Jackson article, and that's a luxury magazines like RG don't have. They have to produce a product each month, and they have an overhead to pay. Many fansites don't.

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A few issues back there was an article he wrote for Retro Gamer on unreleased games. Except this same exact article was printed in Edge magazine years ago, almost word for word identical. It even has the same mistakes it had in 1999! such as stating that Megadrive Virtua Fighter 2 is virtually impossible to find. Clearly its not even remotely hard to get hold of, and quite how it deserves to be in an article about unreleased games I'm not sure, after all there were literally hundreds of cancelled games for the Megadrive and its add-ons alone!

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I remember that, and I thought to myself "VF2 was released and isn't hard to find at all." I didn't know it was basically an older article reprinted.

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Its annoying to pay for a magazine, and to get little more than what you'd find on wikipedia. Especially when there are better more knowledgeable people writing about this stuff on the net for nothing. Personally I think Retro Gamer would be better if they sought out actual experts to write specific in-depth articles rather than relying on an journalist who may have little knowlege or even interest on the area of gaming in question. Or they should at least get someone who knows their stuff to proof read articles before going to print, as it seems every issue I read there are glaring mistakes.

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RG makes occasional mistakes (like saying that Greendog was a Sega Technical Institute game in the STI article a few months back), but those things happen occasionally. They also don't have the luxury of correcting an article after it goes to print like we do.

Taking an issue with criticism is acceptable, as every writer is going to be criticized at some time or another. It's important though, to try and explain to the reader what's in doubt without losing your cool like he did. Stu did nothing but cripple his own argument with his insults and flaming. He adopts an "I don't care what you think" attitude, but everyone knows it's not true. Someone who doesn't care about reader opinion wouldn't spend pages on the Internet arguing about his article.

Although I've never read Retro Game magazine or whatever it is called (nor ever care to, especially after this) I pretty much agree with everything Melf said in his post. However the whole debacle will probably raise sales for RG magazine because everyone will want to see what new nonsense that jerk Stuart is writing GRRRRRR!!!! So RG loves this to no end, believe me. Like it has been said many times all over the world, any publicity is good publicity.

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Originally Posted by Malducci

That forum [neo-geo.com] is infamous.

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Yes it is. A lot of the people over there are douches but many of them are funny and helpful as well. Still, it is not a forum that I find particularly entertaining unless I have some sort of urgent Neo Geo issue and I never visit it unless someone posts a link like this.

It's a great forum if you want to buy stuff. The actual discussion is pretty meh.

Sega-16 needs a dickhead of a writer STAT. No wait, we have Melf







I KID I KID.

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Originally Posted by tomaitheous

Oh god, the neo geo snerds on that forum. Reeeaaaally mature.

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I think someone on that forum said a "snerd" meant "sexy nerd". I thought it meant SNES Nerds.

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Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

I think someone on that forum said a "snerd" meant "sexy nerd". I thought it meant SNES Nerds.

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I thought that too when I first saw it, but apparently super-nerd is the most common use fo it.

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Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

I think someone on that forum said a "snerd" meant "sexy nerd". I thought it meant SNES Nerds.

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I think when capitalized it means S(uper Nintendo)NERD (yeah, I'm not lying out my arse or anything), but I've used in both context. Also, 'sexy nerd' being sarcastic and condescending. Silly nerd, Super nerd, sexy nerd, snes nerd. It's like "smurf" :D Smurf nerd.

I think some dudes from Retro Gamer had a small run in over at DP.

I seem to recall there being an article about some "secret video game clubs" where only ultra-rare stuff is bought/sold/traded. I think the writer ended up admitting that some of the "secret club" stuff was embellished, some members there ended up blasting the article (nothing near Neo-Geo.com caliber) and the writer got pissy over it and basically called all Americans stupid.

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Originally Posted by Joe Redifer

I think someone on that forum said a "snerd" meant "sexy nerd". I thought it meant SNES Nerds.

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Now a sexy nerd would be taking the Mickey!:D

I guess this dude has little problem taking criticism from message board people.

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Originally Posted by Rusty Venture

I think some dudes from Retro Gamer had a small run in over at DP.

I seem to recall there being an article about some "secret video game clubs" where only ultra-rare stuff is bought/sold/traded. I think the writer ended up admitting that some of the "secret club" stuff was embellished, some members there ended up blasting the article (nothing near Neo-Geo.com caliber) and the writer got pissy over it and basically called all Americans stupid.

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I was just about to ask if Retro Gamer was the same magazine that was involved in that Digital Press discussion about the "secret society" of proto collectors.

I had toyed with the idea of picking some issues; these incidents now prove to me that its pretty much a "tabloid" magazine, which seems to be more acceptable to UK tastes than to my American tastes.

Edit: Here's the thread at Digital Press on the "secret society" http://www.digitpress.com/forum/show...ht=retro+gamer

The tabloid aspect didn't turn me off as much as the writers attitude.

But coming off with a "European Superiority" attitude and coupling with making blanket statements, and acting immature made him look like that much bigger of a douchebag.

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Originally Posted by Gentlegamer

I had toyed with the idea of picking some issues; these incidents now prove to me that its pretty much a "tabloid" magazine, which seems to be more acceptable to UK tastes than to my American tastes.

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uh, I don't think 'tabloid magazine' means what you think it means. As people in this thread have pointed out, one or two spots on the magazine's rep resulting from deadlines and rushed research doesn't make it bumf.

That Stu guy seems like a real wanker.

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Originally Posted by Elusive

uh, I don't think 'tabloid magazine' means what you think it means. As people in this thread have pointed out, one or two spots on the magazine's rep resulting from deadlines and rushed research doesn't make it bumf.

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No, but members of its writing staff acting like total wankers does.

If you can't act professional discussing your magazine/work, how am I supposed to take it seriously?

That must be one of the most insulting, degrading first posts that any writer would ever want to hear about their work and you lot are actually surprised that he got upset?!!?! he's a freelancer, this is his career we're talking about here.

Not to mention half the criticism was bullshit anyway, how the hell could someone think he was being serious when he mentioned Ocelot?!?! you'd have to be completely retarded not to realise that was a joke and whether or not he likes Metal Slug 3 is his opinion.

The only real issue I saw with the article was a lack of detailing in respects to Metal Slug 2 and Metal Slug X on the slow down, but I wouldn't dream of calling someone an amateur or a hack due to that.

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Originally Posted by jesus.arnold

That must be one of the most insulting, degrading first posts that any writer would ever want to hear about their work and you lot are actually surprised that he got upset?!!?! he's a freelancer, this is his career we're talking about here.

Not to mention half the criticism was bullshit anyway, how the hell could someone think he was being serious when he mentioned Ocelot?!?! you'd have to be completely retarded not to realise that was a joke and whether or not he likes Metal Slug 3 is his opinion.

The only real issue I saw with the article was a lack of detailing in respects to Metal Slug 2 and Metal Slug X on the slow down, but I wouldn't dream of calling someone an amateur or a hack due to that.

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I didn't find the original post to be THAT bad. Yeah, he calls the guy a hack and lazy, but everyone's entitled to their own opinions. There's never going to be a situation in which 100% of your audience loves what you wrote.

That's all beside the point, though. The problem here is the way in which he responds to his critics. Instead of just saying "hey, you know, I think your criticisms are baseless and insulting to my integrity." he calls the thread starter a cunt and tells him to go eat a cock.

Even in jest it's still a dick move, and embarrassing for RGM.

Obviously the best quote in that thread:

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People still read printed magazines?

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Originally Posted by InternalPrimate

he calls the thread starter a cunt and tells him to go eat a cock.

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No he doesn't, after a page more of insults and ganging up on him he says that, the guys obviously a little bit insecure and they've put his back against the wall, and anyway, who the hell cares if someone tells them to eat cock anyway, it's not exactly the same as telling someone that they are talentless at their job and have no place writing for anyone.

I'm really glad I'm not a member of that forum, never before have I seen such a congregation of arrogant shit for brains', people like that are the reason why I spent a week considering taking down my website last month.

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Originally Posted by jesus.arnold

No he doesn't, after a page more of insults and ganging up on him he says that

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Actually in his first post on the first page, the writer says, "My sang-froid has to take a momentary back seat here, as I have to suggest that you go fuck yourself, you pompous, arrogant, stupid little prick."

Not exactly the same as telling him to eat a cock, but close enough for practical purposes. Anyway the dude is a wanker and he seems awfully butthurt about what a group of nerds think for a 41 year-old "premiere games journalist," imo.


e: I think it's pretty funny that as that thread went on it basically just became England vs. America

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Originally Posted by jerry coeurl

Actually in his first post on the first page, the writer says, "My sang-froid has to take a momentary back seat here, as I have to suggest that you go fuck yourself, you pompous, arrogant, stupid little prick."

Not exactly the same as telling him to eat a cock, but close enough for practical purposes. Anyway the dude is a wanker and he seems awfully butthurt about what a group of nerds think for a 41 year-old "premiere games journalist," imo.


e: I think it's pretty funny that as that thread went on it basically just became England vs. America

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I stopped reading by the 3rd or 4th page, by then I was getting to the stage of anger where I end up acting like an idiot myself so I though I'd just leave it and never go back :)

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Originally Posted by Elusive

uh, I don't think 'tabloid magazine' means what you think it means. As people in this thread have pointed out, one or two spots on the magazine's rep resulting from deadlines and rushed research doesn't make it bumf.

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I mean it in the sense that it leans towards "yellow journalism." By the author's own admission, the aforementioned article on the "secret society" of proto collectors was deliberately colored in a sensationalist manner with incorrect/misreported facts.

Deadlines and rushed research leading to factually inaccurate features indicates to me that its journalism is generally of a substandard quality, in my opinion.

It may just be the difference between British and American tastes regarding the style of journalism (snark, sensationalism, ect.) that I characterize under the umbrella "tabloid."

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Originally Posted by Gentlegamer

I mean it in the sense that it leans towards "yellow journalism." By the author's own admission, the aforementioned article on the "secret society" of proto collectors was deliberately colored in a sensationalist manner with incorrect/misreported facts.

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The problem I had with it (and still do) is/was that the rare items should have been the article focus rather than some dumb "secret society".

But the author still could have said "well, sensationalized stories sell in the UK and the UK is our audience" instead of calling all of the United States stupid.

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Originally Posted by jerry coeurl

I think it's pretty funny that as that thread went on it basically just became England vs. America

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I've never been to Neo-Geo.com, and I plan to keep it that way.

I know from the uttering of former Neo-Geo.com members that it is one giant pit of douchbaggery.

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Originally Posted by jesus.arnold

so I though I'd just leave it and never go back :)

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And you wouldn't miss anything of worth. Makes the Amiga guys/forums look tame <_<

What I love about that post though, is that it's representative of a common and larger view that anyone can criticize or piss all over a professional but god forbid that person actually take offense and even worse, respond to it in any type of negative form. Elitist nerds VS the professional, and the professional(s) needs to just shut up "take it". :?