HDTV advice needed: good 240p & game support.

OK, the Genesis/Megadrive outputs 240p, not true 480i, in almost all circumstances. For now, this is fine: I own only a standard def CRT TV (NTSC). But I'm researching to buy a new TV, and so far I'm thinking either DLP front projection or plasma (probably Panasonic) based on factors that are important to me.

Does anyone have any knowledge or advice specifically relating to how various technologies/brands/models handle 240p content from the Genesis, or games in general? If I'm spending around $1000 USD on a TV, I want to make damn sure I can play my 16 bit Sega games on it without them looking like utter shite.

BTW: the DLP "rainbow effect" doesn't seem to bother me, and has probably been all but eliminated in recent models anyway. I am also aware that plasmas are prone to burn-in if not treated properly, and since I'd prefer not to stretch my 4:3 games, I am leaning towards DLP--but I've heard some DLPs do (or did with early models) introduce borderline-perceptible display latency due to processing, etc, so comments on any of that would be great.

Thanks!

Plasmas have come a long way since all those burn in problems, so don't let
that be a deciding factor. I personally would never get one though, but i would make an exception for a Pioneer kuro! Nothing beats the color/black levels of a CRT, only sets that come close are the Pioneers i just mentioned, but damn! are they expensive. Plus we got a few new technologies coming out in a few years ( i think?) so i'd wait it out a bit if i was you. But if you want to go for it and wnat soemthing now i'd say go with the DLP. Not sure how it would react to the 240p the Genesis throws out though. So i'm not basing that on how the genesis would look since i have no clue. Maybe someone else who has a DLP with a Genesis attached would be better knowledgeable. But i bet if they have another CRT set laying around thats what the genesis is plugged into. :)

I currently use a sony xbr960 hdtv for all of my needs. if i ever move though i'm just going to have to blow it up where it is cause the only time it was moved was when the delivery guys brought it in. Thing weighs a TON. I might bust out my old sony 27 inch though just for my genesis gaming, since i think the scaler in the set and DRC is doing more harm then good to the picture, but who knows. Sony TV's have really great scalers though, so i don't know.

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Originally Posted by Ghaleon

Does anyone have any knowledge or advice specifically relating to how various technologies/brands/models handle 240p content from the Genesis, or games in general? If I'm spending around $1000 USD on a TV, I want to make damn sure I can play my 16 bit Sega games on it without them looking like utter shite.

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There is no way of hooking up anything older than Dreamcast (via VGA) to HDTVs. No HDTV on earth works properly with 480i or 240p (which is misinterpreted as 480i due to the same number of scanlines). The picture will look terrible if you feed it anything below 480p (DVD, Dreamcast, Wii).

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Originally Posted by Ghaleon

OK, the Genesis/Megadrive outputs 240p, not true 480i, in almost all circumstances. For now, this is fine: I own only a standard def CRT TV (NTSC). But I'm researching to buy a new TV, and so far I'm thinking either DLP front projection or plasma (probably Panasonic) based on factors that are important to me.

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If I would have to buy a new TV then I would go with either Plasma or LCD, but honestly I would much rather buy a HD Ready or maybe even Full HD projector and keep my CRT for retro gaming and regular TV.

Regardless of which route you decide to take, make sure your TV has more than one HDMI ports, a VGA port and a DVI port.

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

Regardless of which route you decide to take, make sure your TV has more than one HDMI ports, a VGA port and a DVI port.

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Most LCD televisions (above 32") don't have DVI in North America. You'll get (1) RGB/VGA, 2 or 3 HDMI and a couple of component and composite connections.

I see, I didn't know that! DVI is the digital equivalent to analogue VGA and DVI-I also is backward compatible to VGA.

Also, HDMI is capable of both Y'CbCr (digital variant of Y'PbPr component video) and digital RGBHV (VGA), but not backwards compatible to their analogue equivalents.

So, if you got a VGA port than I guess everything's fine.

Thanks for the responses thus far.

Well, I do know that HD-ready CRT projectors work really well with 480i or anything above due to the technology in them being more like a CRT computer monitor than like a CRT (SD) television, so although I don't know for a fact they would handle 240p equally-well, I think they might, they're very flexible and don't digitize and then process the picture--they just display it. I don't think anyone still makes CRT projectors, and they are bulky and troublesome, but from what I've read, if you get a good one that can handle 480i and some level of HD content, and get it properly set up, aligned, etc, they're hard to beat for picture quality. Can anyone comment on this? But like I said, you can't get those new, and it's like a hobby in itself just to keep them running well--high price to pay for picture quality. So...

Does anyone have any first-hand experience hooking a Genesis/Megadrive up to an HDTV where the resulting picture quality wasn't complete crap?

@Ransack: So you currently use the xbr960 with the Genesis? How does it look? Honestly, I'd love to have a CRT HDTV, as strange as that is to most people--overall, are you happy with yours?

I love it man. Definetely one of the best CRT HDtvs released. Even when my friends come over they say how much better the picture looks than their LCD sets. Then again i calibrated mine and spent a lot of time learning about things in the service menu that can't be done through the regular menu. Even with composite video the video looks amazing using the DRC mode, the modes are interlace adds 4 times density to moving picture, this is what i use for genesis) , Progressive ( adds 4 times the density to still pictures) and cinemotion ( good for movies on vhs)It basically raises standard definition signals to HD quality via a digital bit mapping process, The end result– A display of clear, stable images from any video source. But i'm not sure if my TV is causing these lines i notice when playing genesis games. Didn't see them though when usuing RF, but now after doing the composite mod i have them. Only noticeable during bright background scenes, but just the fact that i know they are there annoy me. I really need to bust out my other Tv just to double check and see if it's the TV's scaler or one of the modes i have it set to. I rechecked my mod on my genny to make sure everything was grounded right, so i don't know.

With genesis though i also like to use the SVM feature ( adds detail to outer edges) since i'm using only composite it really helps clear up text in games, i also have the sharpness jacked up. Normally on my HD connections i keep the SVM off and sharpness low if not 0.

I wish i understood more about circuits/transistor/ boards so i could do the s-video mod, but i think thats way out of my league. it'd be so convenient too since this TV has an s-video jack right on the front.

@ransack: Why did you need a mod for composite, I thought all models of Genesis output compsite just fine? But if you want a better picture, you might try going the route johnnyb did, and that I'm considering:
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7497
No modding necessary, just external cable & a converter, and the picture will be better than S-video.

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Originally Posted by Ghaleon

Well, I do know that HD-ready CRT projectors work really well with 480i or anything above due to the technology in them being more like a CRT computer monitor than like a CRT (SD) television, so although I don't know for a fact they would handle 240p equally-well, I think they might, they're very flexible and don't digitize and then process the picture--they just display it. I don't think anyone still makes CRT projectors, and they are bulky and troublesome, but from what I've read, if you get a good one that can handle 480i and some level of HD content, and get it properly set up, aligned, etc, they're hard to beat for picture quality. Can anyone comment on this?

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A CRT projector is a nice thing, but what I really recommend is a "cheapo" LCD projector (cheapo as in a few hundred bucks) and to keep your SDTV for retro gaming.

If you want a good TV for retro gaming, and you're located in the US, there is no alternative to an old 4:3 CRT TV with component in.

The LCD projector will then serve you for your home theatre and will do an awesome job with anything from Dreamcast to DVD or Blu-Ray.

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Originally Posted by Ghaleon

Does anyone have any first-hand experience hooking a Genesis/Megadrive up to an HDTV where the resulting picture quality wasn't complete crap?

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Samsung LCD via RGB-SCART looked pretty damn good. Just not as good as my good old 80s Nokia CRT via RGB-SCART:

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/8873/bild4794cut.png
(yes, I know that it cuts off the left side of the screen, but I don't care and it only seems to affect Genesis and no other devices)

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Originally Posted by Ghaleon

Honestly, I'd love to have a CRT HDTV

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I can't really recommend them. None of the ones I tested (Philips, Samsung, and a Grundig EDTV) came even close to the Samsung LCD of my brother, and there was no advantage in regards to 240p content. In fact, the Samsung LCD looked better.

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

A CRT projector is a nice thing, but what I really recommend is a "cheapo" LCD projector (cheapo as in a few hundred bucks) and to keep your SDTV for retro gaming.

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Yeah, overall that sounds like good advice, but I absolutely abhor the way LCDs tend to cause motion-blur: I think I'm very sensitive to it because sometimes I hate watching my parents' relatively new (some '08 model I think) Samsung 46" HD LCD, whether the "auto motion plus" (I hate it) is on or off, it blurs things, especially fast horizontal pans. I'm guessing LCD projectors are not immune to this issue, though I've never tested one.

Here's another interesting factor: I've got Saturn Bomberman, 2 multitaps, and 10+ controllers and would love to start throwing retro-gaming parties with this as the main event. If you've ever played this title in the 10 player mode, you'll know that the sprites are small and you need a big screen. So anyone have a good recommendation with this as an additional factor, since the Saturn does 480i only?

Sorry to barge in...

But here is a question for you,

I recently got a new TV (Sony XBR40) prior to that I had a Sony 66cm trinitron. So I have been playing the Mega Drive, SMS2 via S-video or composite.

I am also thinking of getting a DVD HDD recorder. I saw one that had the scart connection in the back of it. Could I use that (MD, SMS2 plugged into it) then out of it component (or even HDMI?) into the TV?

In Australia we don't get much Scart stuff, I could make my own scart lead and the only option I have seen is to get one of those RGB- YUV boxes the americans love so much (from what I have seen). Sure I could probably get one shipped over but cost might be the deciding factor.

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Originally Posted by omp

I am also thinking of getting a DVD HDD recorder. I saw one that had the scart connection in the back of it. Could I use that (MD, SMS2 plugged into it) then out of it component (or even HDMI?) into the TV?

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Do you have a link or any details on the model you're talking about? It seems strange that it would have SCART in and component out. I'd like to see the manual for that to find out if it does all the necessary conversion in real-time. It seems less likely that it would convert from SCART to HDMI in realtime, but I suppose it's possible.

I have yet to see a LCD or HD set that will display a 240p signal as 480p with "scanlines" (every other scanline black) to simulate SDTV. I hate that doubled scanline like. The interpolated looked of LCDs aren't much better. Someone needs to come out with a cheap RGB/composite/component frame grabber that'll take care of the scanline simulation and output back out RGB/HDMI/component, etc.

Dscaler for PC+capture card will convert 240p to 480p with some interpolation, but AFAIK doesn't do the scanline emulation of SDTV 240p mode.

I have a 53" Hitachi HD CRT (4/3). You'd think it would be perfect for old 4/3 systems, but they are soooo damn blocky. Even my Saturn looks nasty all blocky like that. It's like having your facing up close to an RGB monitor. No good. All my retro systems get played on an SDTV because of this.

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Originally Posted by Ghaleon

I absolutely abhor the way LCDs tend to cause motion-blur: I think I'm very sensitive to it because sometimes I hate watching my parents' relatively new (some '08 model I think) Samsung 46" HD LCD, whether the "auto motion plus" (I hate it) is on or off, it blurs things, especially fast horizontal pans. I'm guessing LCD projectors are not immune to this issue, though I've never tested one.

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I never noticed any motion blur. I guess that your parents use it with regular TV instead of DVD / Blu-Ray via HDMI (or VGA) ?

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Originally Posted by Ghaleon

I've got Saturn Bomberman, 2 multitaps, and 10+ controllers and would love to start throwing retro-gaming parties with this as the main event. If you've ever played this title in the 10 player mode, you'll know that the sprites are small and you need a big screen. So anyone have a good recommendation with this as an additional factor, since the Saturn does 480i only?

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Saturn usually does 240p like Genesis, but Saturn Bomberman and a few other games do run in a Dreamcast like high res mode (640x480). Saturn however is limited by it's video connectors so the best it can do is to output 480i.

If you want to play it with ten people than I would hook it up to an LCD projector. Like with any HDTV, 480i/240p won't look uber great but it will get the job done.

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Originally Posted by tomaitheous

I have yet to see a LCD or HD set that will display a 240p signal as 480p with "scanlines" (every other scanline black) to simulate SDTV. I hate that doubled scanline like. The interpolated looked of LCDs aren't much better. Someone needs to come out with a cheap RGB/composite/component frame grabber that'll take care of the scanline simulation and output back out RGB/HDMI/component, etc.

Dscaler for PC+capture card will convert 240p to 480p with some interpolation, but AFAIK doesn't do the scanline emulation of SDTV 240p mode.

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I really wish that they'd upscan 240p to 480p! I never understood why people cry over some missing scanlines when the real problem is the terrible picture caused by the interpolation. 240p upscanned to 480p would look like an emulator on your PC monitor = awesome!

So in recap, the general idea so far seems to be:
1. CRT (SD) for Genesis/MD gaming--all others suck excepting some very nice HD CRT monitors but even some of them don't handle 240p well.
2. *maybe* CRT projection can handle 240p.

Anyone have any experience playing a Megadrive/Gen via CRT projector? DLP front or rear projection? Any other exotics like LCoS/SXRD, etc?

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Originally Posted by tomaitheous

I have a 53" Hitachi HD CRT (4/3). You'd think it would be perfect for old 4/3 systems, but they are soooo damn blocky. Even my Saturn looks nasty all blocky like that. It's like having your facing up close to an RGB monitor. No good. All my retro systems get played on an SDTV because of this.

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So, you got a HD CRT, but how are you hooking things up ? Via composite or S-Video ? or RGB ?

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Originally Posted by omp

I am also thinking of getting a DVD HDD recorder. I saw one that had the scart connection in the back of it. Could I use that (MD, SMS2 plugged into it) then out of it component (or even HDMI?) into the TV?

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If it accepts RGB then that would work! - Remember that SCART is just a cable and that you can send Composite or S-Video too.

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

I never noticed any motion blur. I guess that your parents use it with regular TV instead of DVD / Blu-Ray via HDMI (or VGA) ?

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No, they watch very little SD TV content--I notice it most in DVD content via HDMI, far less in BD content (HDMI) or OTA ATSC HDTV but still somewhat.

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

Saturn usually does 240p like Genesis, but Saturn Bomberman and a few other games do run in a Dreamcast like high res mode (640x480).

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Didn't realize that, very good to know.

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

I really wish that they'd upscan 240p to 480p! I never really understood why people cry over some missing scanlines when the real problem is the bad picture caused by the interpolation. 240p upscanned to 480p would look like an emulator on your PC monitor = awesome!

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I think it might look like it if it were actually being displayed at 480p resolution, but unless you've got either CRT or an EDTV (native 480p display), it's upscaling it to the panel's native resolution, which means you've still got interpolation--right? Bad interpolation, too, in that it's not displaying at an even integer multiple of 640x480. That's why even on emulators, I only run the display size as an integer multiple of 640x480, and ideally, for me, the integer is 1.

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Originally Posted by Ghaleon

No, they watch very little SD TV content--I notice it most in DVD content via HDMI, far less in BD content (HDMI) or OTA ATSC HDTV but still somewhat.

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Interesting. - It might be possible that it's caused by film (24fps) vs TV series (30fps)... ?

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Originally Posted by Ghaleon

Didn't realize that, very good to know.

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It doesn't make a difference. No HDTV on this planet is capable of displaying anything interlaced properly. Anything that ends on an "i" like 480i will have to be deinterlaced. This statement implies that 240p would be displayed properly but it is an exception to the rule since it uses a trick which is not recognized as such so it will be treated like 480i due to the same number of scanlines (240), so if Saturn runs in 640x480 it still is 240 scanlines and not 480 (like with Dreamcast via VGA). Plus since it is interlaced, it doesn't get displayed without deinterlacing.

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Originally Posted by Ghaleon

I think it might look like it if it were actually being displayed at 480p resolution, but unless you've got either CRT or an EDTV (native 480p display), it's upscaling it to the panel's native resolution, which means you've still got interpolation--right? Bad interpolation, too, in that it's not displaying at an even integer multiple of 640x480. That's why even on emulators, I only run the display size as an integer multiple of 640x480, and ideally, for me, the integer is 1.

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Resolution doesn't really matter. It's progressive vs interlaced. 480p will look great on a modern HDTV, 480i will look terrible.

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

Interesting. - It might be possible that it's caused by film (24fps) vs TV series (30fps)... ?

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It's still slightly noticeable on 24fps BD content.

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

It doesn't make a difference. No HDTV on this planet is capable of displaying anything interlaced properly. Anything that ends on an "i" like 480i will have to be deinterlaced.

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Well, I think that's an over-generalization: at least some CRT-based HDTVs--whether direct-view or front/rear projection--are capable of displaying 1080i signals natively: they don't have to deinterlace because they're not progressive-scan, fixed-pixel displays, and this is yet another reason why I like CRTs: the high-end, high-def models are very flexible, allowing you to "natively" display any number of interlaced or progressive resolutions.

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

Resolution doesn't really matter. It's progressive vs interlaced. 480p will look great on a modern HDTV, 480i will look terrible.

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I agree with the second statement, if you specify you're referring to progressive-scan, fixed-pixel displays (and not film-based content), i.e. most if not all HDTVs still being manufactured. But to say "Resolution doesn't really matter" might be a bit too categorical: like you said, interpolation can really screw up a picture, and upscaling is essentially spatial interpolation very much akin to the spatiotemporal interpolation that deinterlacing essentially consists of.

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Originally Posted by Ghaleon

Well, I think that's an over-generalization: at least some CRT-based HDTVs--whether direct-view or front/rear projection--are capable of displaying 1080i signals natively: they don't have to deinterlace because they're not progressive-scan, fixed-pixel displays, and this is yet another reason why I like CRTs: the high-end, high-def models are very flexible, allowing you to "natively" display any number of interlaced or progressive resolutions.

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A 1080i CRT based HDTV should be able to natively display 1080i and 540p like your SDTV is capable of 480i and 240p, but I bet that just like other HDTVs it will be using internal upscalers to fit other resolutions to these specifications.

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Originally Posted by Ghaleon

But to say "Resolution doesn't really matter" might be a bit too categorical: like you said, interpolation can really screw up a picture, and upscaling is essentially spatial interpolation very much akin to the spatiotemporal interpolation that deinterlacing essentially consists of.

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There's a huge differene between deinterlacing and upscaling. 480p / 720p is much easier to scale to match the LCD's native resolution and will give you a much better result than having to deinterlace and upscale 480i or to deinterlace 1080i.

When I said "Resolution doesn't matter" I meant to say that modern HDTVs do an excellent job on displaying everything progressive - well, except 240p.

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

So, you got a HD CRT, but how are you hooking things up ? Via composite or S-Video ? or RGB ?

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For Saturn, SNES, DC, it was SVIDEO. PCE and Genesis I don't either bother to run on the HD set.

My HD set recognizes 240p signals and line doubles then to 480p at true 59.94hz. It's nice in that respect, but what I don't like is the lack of dim or black "scanlines" in between. It makes 240p at 53 inches look super chunky/square/pixely. Other than that, it looks beautiful - though I wouldn't mind a bit of "controllable" horizontal interpolation. Like those old RGB monitors had. Just a smidget of analog filtering along the X axis - with some 'scanlines' of course.

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That's why even on emulators, I only run the display size as an integer multiple of 640x480, and ideally, for me, the integer is 1.

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So without interpolation? Or scanlines? Ewww.

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Originally Posted by tomaitheous

For Saturn, SNES, DC, it was SVIDEO. PCE and Genesis I don't either bother to run on the HD set.

My HD set recognizes 240p signals and line doubles then to 480p at true 59.94hz. It's nice in that respect, but what I don't like is the lack of dim or black "scanlines" in between. It makes 240p at 53 inches look super chunky/square/pixely. Other than that, it looks beautiful - though I wouldn't mind a bit of "controllable" horizontal interpolation. Like those old RGB monitors had. Just a smidget of analog filtering along the X axis - with some 'scanlines' of course.

So without interpolation? Or scanlines? Ewww.

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This is exactly my feeling. Do you NEED to run the SEGA on a 50" HDTV? It'll look like crap, no matter what the TV does. The Genesis was designed around being on a 13" CRT TV. Just get an El-Cheapo 11" to 17" LCD TV and don't worry about it. I run mine on a 15" LCD TV. It's better than it needs to be.

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

A 1080i CRT based HDTV should be able to natively display 1080i and 540p like your SDTV is capable of 480i and 240p, but I bet that just like other HDTVs it will be using internal upscalers to fit other resolutions to these specifications.

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I bet you're right for most direct-view or rear-projection CRT HDTVs. That's why CRT front-projection would be so awesome: if it can synch to the input signal, it doesn't do any scaling--just displays it as it was intended to be displayed, be it interlaced or progressive. I would love to have the time, money, and patience to pursue this option.

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

There's a huge differene between deinterlacing and upscaling. 480p / 720p is much easier to scale to match the LCD's native resolution and will give you a much better result than having to deinterlace and upscale 480i or to deinterlace 1080i.

When I said "Resolution doesn't matter" I meant to say that modern HDTVs do an excellent job on displaying everything progressive - well, except 240p.

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Agreed--they're very different. Upscaling is essentially a two-dimensional form of interpolation, whereas deinterlacing (when done intelligently) is more of a three-dimensional interpolation (x,y,t) and it's trying to do so with half the data that the progressive-scaling process is working with--therefore it's admittedly far more involved and the results are often far less impressive. Still, to my eyes you usually get noticeable artifacts/smearing/distortion even when you scale a progressive picture to a non-integer multiple of the original resolution--but I agree, the results are much better than deinterlacing from the same original resolution.

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Originally Posted by tomaitheous

So without interpolation? Or scanlines? Ewww.

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Scanlines on--looks much more like playing on my TV. :)

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This is exactly my feeling. Do you NEED to run the SEGA on a 50" HDTV? It'll look like crap, no matter what the TV does. The Genesis was designed around being on a 13" CRT TV. Just get an El-Cheapo 11" to 17" LCD TV and don't worry about it. I run mine on a 15" LCD TV. It's better than it needs to be.

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No, I don't need to--just want to, if I can find a way to make it look decent. Hence the thread and the questions about others' experiences with this. I've got a perfectly good 27" CRT with component/S/composite that serves me quite well, but since I'm trying to find a decent HDTV for movies, I figured it'd be pure bonus if I could find one that would nicely handle my old video games as well. If it starts to look like that either won't happen or will be too much trouble, I'll throw that out as a criterion and focus on how well the new TV would handle BD and DVD content, especially film, but video-based content too.

I don't min seeing the individual pixels, even if it looks blocky that way on larger screens; the possible exception would be for dithered effects, which only work well on composite or RF. If you want a "softer" immage, hook it up via composite....

I grew up with PC games, and an NES and SNES on a 27" TV (Trinitron ca ~1991), and even in composite the pixels are pretty visible (though a little distorted), and I prefer the SNES in S-Video on our newer 28" (flatscreen Sanyo SDTV CRT), but that's just my personal prefrence. (I usually prefer having scanlines and psudo composite "tv-mode" turned off usually in Fusion, though I haven't gotten around to trying S-Video on my Genesis yet, assuming I've got a TV that'll work with the simple 56-75 ohm resistor on luma mod)

Granted I play Fusion on 15" monitor, though if I went through out TV it would end up blurred a bit anyway as it has to go through the vido card's S-Video encoder.

And that blockiness is what you'd have seen back then too if you had a big TV in Europe/UK with RGB SCART. (I think RGB was common in Japan too)

You guys got me tweaking again. I went into my TVs service menu while genesis was on and disabled most of the artificial sharpners/ svm, changed the mid settings and just got rid of all the extra crap thats added so it's like my other inputs ( HD, cable box) setting wise. Which you really shouldn't do, casue component,HDMI s-video and composite should have different settings when it comes to settings, what works for one doesn't work for the other, but oh well. I didn't fell likie digging through old forums for good composite input settings. I was actually playing on vivid setting on my Tv with genesis, cause i just liked the way it made everything "pop" as opposed to my xbox 360, which i play on pro, and warm color temp.

Well anyways my results are i have one soft picture now lol too soft. I really need to learn how to do the s-video mod. Disabling all sharpners/ crap made me realize how bad the composite is on the Genny :(

Hey guys, tried my modified Master System 2 last night on my newly acquired Sony 40" XBR (LCD). I tried S-video first, not to bloody bad, better than I thought. Then for giggles I tried composite, yuck frigging disgusting! It was a blurred/smudged image, it wasn't that bad on my old CRT Sony trintron (66cm).

With the old tv there was a minor-medium difference between composite and s-video on the old TV, but on the new one the difference is HUGE.

I have emailed Panasonic about the DVD recorder with SCART in/out to see if you can go scart in, component out. It will be a while before I get that as the wife needs to "come around" after spending (well I spent) a crap load on the new TV over the weekend! lol!

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Originally Posted by omp

Hey guys, tried my modified Master System 2 last night on my newly acquired Sony 40" XBR (LCD). I tried S-video first, not to bloody bad, better than I thought. Then for giggles I tried composite, yuck frigging disgusting! It was a blurred/smudged image, it wasn't that bad on my old CRT Sony trintron (66cm).

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Might have something to do with the old high-end SD TVs having really good 3D digital comb filters for the composite input to clean it up and make it near S-video quality--I think that a lot of HDTVs have deemphasized that technology and focused on the HD signal processing, etc.

Reply from Panasonic on the DVD recorder SCART in Component out Question

Dear Peter,

Thank you for taking the time to contact Panasonic with your enquiry.

The Scart will not supply a better image than a Composite or component connection. It is the same signal using a different Plug.

The Scart input on the DVD recorder will not accept a Component video signal. it is for composite and S-Video only.

If you supply a composite in through the Scart the out to the TV need to be composite as well.

Kind Regards,

Gavin.
Panasonic Customer Care
www.panasonic.com.au

So I guess it can't be done....

Its really disappointing that all the SCART stuff that does come out here is for Component video only.

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

No HDTV on earth works properly with 480i or 240p (which is misinterpreted as 480i due to the same number of scanlines). The picture will look terrible if you feed it anything below 480p (DVD, Dreamcast, Wii).

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Samsung 530 series LCD's via YPrPb Component input do support 240p. It just won't say what the resolution is, info bar would be left blank. But you can tell when say the screen flashes 30 times a second, or if the screen is moving ever so slowly, no deinterlacing is being attempted. As a matter of fact, on sonic 2, if you go into 2 player mode, the TV goes bank and says searching for signal and then locks on cause it switched on the deinterlacer for the 480i.

Samsung 530. Very odd beast. I wonder what scaler they have in them.

Stuff it, I am going to suss out getting a RGB to YUV converter (from the USA) and getting a MD1 SCART lead (from england). I only have to get one of each as I can easily make my own 32X - MD1 cable (done it for the MD1-32X before) and pilfer the AV socket out of a busted MD1 and chuck that into my SMS2.

evildragon: interesting info, thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by evildragon

Samsung 530 series LCD's via YPrPb Component input do support 240p. It just won't say what the resolution is, info bar would be left blank. But you can tell when say the screen flashes 30 times a second, or if the screen is moving ever so slowly, no deinterlacing is being attempted. As a matter of fact, on sonic 2, if you go into 2 player mode, the TV goes bank and says searching for signal and then locks on cause it switched on the deinterlacer for the 480i.

Samsung 530. Very odd beast. I wonder what scaler they have in them.

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Is that a B530 or an A530?

I have a 52" A630 that scales the NES pretty well. I'll have to hook up my Genny (composite) and see what it looks like.

I use the A530.

But it only does the 240p upscale from COMPONENT, not COMPOSITE. Atleast that's what I noticed. I never really tested the composite sources.

I just wanted to see how well it upscales the interlaced Genesis signal.

Ugh! It didn't look so hot.

The information bar says: "No information" when I hooked up the Genesis and NES through composite.

I believe the No Information bar your referring to is where the TV would display the TV shows name via V-Blank, where game consoles don't do.

Remember, I'm talking about Component video, not composite.

Question: when I connect my s-video modded model 2 Genesis to my 32'' HDTV, it looks great. However, I get this flashing-like effect on certain colors, almost strobe-like. It makes some games unplayable and gives me a headache. I've checked the settings a hundred times, and nothing seems to be amiss with the TV. My Saturn and PS2 look fine in s-video, and only the Genesis gives me this trouble.

My only other option is to play in composite (ugh!). What could be the problem?

Coud it be form the TV deinterlacing the signal? (it would be deinterlacing a non-interlaced 240 P signal, but a non-240p compatible HDTV will see 240p as 480i -same number of scanlines and will thus screw up) This should be the same for Saturn games running in 240p though, so I don't know. (inless you haven't been playing any such saturn games, though I though it was a large portion of them)

Does it do it on other TVs? If not, tell us more about the TV: LCD/plasma/CRT, model #, etc. And not that I know anything about it, but someone else might eventually ask: where did you get your S-video mod kit/information?