A ROM selling scumbag

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Originally Posted by Diosoth

Repros... if it's unreleased games, translations, or otherwise imports(say, Terranigma playable on an NTSC console) then it should be okay. Repros of stuff like NWC carts or "common but pricey" games shouldn't be allowed.

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You're arguing as if there's a difference in legality as far as repro's go.
Aside from the issue if the rom was originally released in that market or not, it's still selling copyrighted material which was originally obtained by breaking law and dumping the rom.
I don't see anything wrong with it, unless it's dishonest.

I wouldn't look at comparing Repros to Rom disks myself either. Repros have the original hardware in mind. Emulators are ridiculously portable to various competitive devices. The fact that companies have re-released old material digitally only serves to take the piss out of the foolish argument that 'historical preservation and educational purposes' have anything to do with it.

I have no issue for anybody selling emulators or pirated games, as long as he's clear that they are as such.

I know a lot of people who sell 'modding services', or 'burned backups/emu disks' for 10 bucks just to scrape by and pay bills when needed. I don't begrudge them the opportunity out of some foolish loyalty to a corporation that takes my money for something, and attempts to enforce a usage policy on me.

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Originally Posted by Diosoth

Something also tells me that a certain someone has already emailed the guy and he'll show up here to "defend" himself eventually. That poster knows who he is. I hope the jackass does come here. I hope he finally makes a public death threat or something, anything that can be forwarded to the FBI.

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If he choses to come here, my advice to him would be that he should do what every other rom selling pirate does, sell to 'cheap' parents who don't know, or want to know how to download roms for their kids. Do everything well enough, and ask them to spread the word if they're satisfied with what he's offered.

Piracy realistically isn't a viable option when it's honest, you barely break even, be it video games, satellite tv, or movie collections. This usually leads to a few who would venture into Craigs List, or local paper ads, attempting to squeeze more profit out of it while knowing it could be removed.

You actually 'Hope' he shows up here to defend himself, and give you the means to incriminate him? Wow.

How did this 'Dialog' open to begin with? Let me guess, you emailed him calling him a scumbag, right?
No, don't answer, I don't care; He's a fool for having responded to 'idiots' irrationally either way.

Actually, the asshole replied to one of my video game ads to chew me out about my price, and finished with a "fuck you if you flagged my ad". Basically, he yelled at everyone who was selling legit hardware or games. And the cocksucker think I'M the one who "keeps flagging his ads". He cant get it through his thick skull that it takes numerous flags to pull an ad.

And what means to incriminate him? He's already made public CL posts involving bogus legal threats and a desire to meet up for a fist fight. He's brought it on himself. He's the moron who won't let it drop or admit he's breaking the law. I'm surprised the dipshit is smart enough to burn his own CDs or get past the CL CAPTCHA post system, to be honest. If he wants to post a public threat, I'll make sure he gets what's deserved. No one's making the guy bounce around like the Nostalgia Critic, ranting and raving because we won't let him bootleg. It's bad enough he's ripping people off, selling freely available ROMs, but threats because he got busted... maybe he'd be willing to send me his attorney's info if he was even halfway sincere.

It's like those ROM sites that charge for "premium" membership. They have no legal right to do so, nor even any justification to force peopel to pay for pirated material. Nor could I give a damn about their bandwith costs. No one's forcing them to run a bootlegging site. If I want to pay money to obtain a game, I'll get the legit physical copy.

I love how people try to justify piracy. "It's old, the company doesn't sell it anymore." "If I buy it, it'll be used anyway." "It costs too much." I pirate because I'm cheap. I bootleg TV shows, games and pay porn site content but never have I once tried to slap some BS justification on it. Even if I had the money I wouldn't pay for most of it. People are otherwise too weak to admit that it's wrong and have to find ways to make their conscience shut up about torrenting a movie.

I couldn't give a damn if these game companies lose money, because most of them are never happy. They bitch whenever they show a profit, because it's "not enough". They slap on DRM to punish paying customers, which so far has done nothing to stop or slow piracy. They hate the customers. Tell me they are "only around to make money" all you want, but it doesn't excuse DRM or poor customer service.

I used to see this kind of shit on IRC back in the day, some regular would throw out a "LOL Look at what this retard is saying over in _____ channel", post only their defensive rhetoric, and then attempt to rally a crusade against them. Usually a few dozen idiots would join in to do nothing but perpetuate an argument with no resolution for the betterment of anybody.
I took issue with it and whipped out a temp ban hammer on the regular for his repeatedly occurring, and needless 'troll war-cries' on an outside issue after that first incident.

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Originally Posted by Diosoth

Actually, the asshole replied to one of my video game ads to chew me out about my price, and finished with a "fuck you if you flagged my ad". Basically, he yelled at everyone who was selling legit hardware or games. And the cocksucker think I'M the one who "keeps flagging his ads". He cant get it through his thick skull that it takes numerous flags to pull an ad.

And what means to incriminate him? He's already made public CL posts involving bogus legal threats and a desire to meet up for a fist fight. He's brought it on himself. He's the moron who won't let it drop or admit he's breaking the law. I'm surprised the dipshit is smart enough to burn his own CDs or get past the CL CAPTCHA post system, to be honest. If he wants to post a public threat, I'll make sure he gets what's deserved. No one's making the guy bounce around like the Nostalgia Critic, ranting and raving because we won't let him bootleg. It's bad enough he's ripping people off, selling freely available ROMs, but threats because he got busted... maybe he'd be willing to send me his attorney's info if he was even halfway sincere.

It's like those ROM sites that charge for "premium" membership. They have no legal right to do so, nor even any justification to force peopel to pay for pirated material. Nor could I give a damn about their bandwith costs. No one's forcing them to run a bootlegging site. If I want to pay money to obtain a game, I'll get the legit physical copy.

I love how people try to justify piracy. "It's old, the company doesn't sell it anymore." "If I buy it, it'll be used anyway." "It costs too much." I pirate because I'm cheap. I bootleg TV shows, games and pay porn site content but never have I once tried to slap some BS justification on it. Even if I had the money I wouldn't pay for most of it. People are otherwise too weak to admit that it's wrong and have to find ways to make their conscience shut up about torrenting a movie.

I couldn't give a damn if these game companies lose money, because most of them are never happy. They bitch whenever they show a profit, because it's "not enough". They slap on DRM to punish paying customers, which so far has done nothing to stop or slow piracy. They hate the customers. Tell me they are "only around to make money" all you want, but it doesn't excuse DRM or poor customer service.

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(You're just starting to 'explain' some of the circumstances of your argument, something you should have done in the first place.)

So, you think by him selling 'easily attainable, freely available roms' justifies posting it here, calling him a scumbag? Posting his email address to no beneficial purpose?

Who are you to force him to admit that he's 'breaking the law'? That's just as much harassment as his ridiculous legal rhetoric. If you see his CL posting as offensive, report it and wash your hands of it. If he shits on your posts for no reason, again you should report it.
Don't go the extra mile and rattle some self righteous saber over 'ripping people off.' and especially don't come here to 'bitch' about him being an irrational troll.

The piracy moral issue not withstanding, you're still an asshole for perpetuating the issue publicly by posting his information, starting with only your selective perspective on the matter.

Why don't you have him meet somewhere & you bring a cop

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Originally Posted by NeoVamp

Its silly to compare rom discs to a repro, a repro is created because someone wants to play the real thing on their console
and have a nice box to put in their collection.
illegal? yes most definitely.

But selling rom discs and defending yourself just makes you look like a douchebag.

I mean at least be honest and say "hey i'm a douchebag out for a quick buck!"

repro's are hardly a quick buck with all the effort it takes to make one.


so yes this guy is indeed a scumbag, though i have given up on reporting them since eBay just made it impossible to report someone.
(last time i tried to report someone they had me go through 20 pages of online forms to fill in what my complaint was about)

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Just because one takes more time doesn't make it morally, ethically, or legally better. Collectors and accuracy elitest likes repros because it lets them own something that didn't exist commercially before as well as play it on real hardware. At the same time, pure gamers would prefer a full ROM set as its the cheapest way to play the games they love and also by far the most convenient (lets see, storing 700+ NES cartridges or having 1 disc with all of the games, which is simpler?). Charging $10 for an emulator disc isn't too proportionately different than charging $60 for a repro. The person selling the emulator disc still has to tie up their computer for 30 minutes to burn it at a low enough speed and cause wear and tear to their CD burner. Then, they have to drive to the post office and mail it or meet up with the buyer. Gamestop does alot less when they buy a game for $4 and resell it for $30 when all they do is take the game and put it on a shelf. I personally believe selling an emulator disc would only be ethical if you've already provided information to the buyer about burning it themselves but they insist you do it for them because they don't understand it. That way you can genuinely say they A) knew what they were getting (stuff downloaded for free) and B) you were only paid for the service of burning and delivering it. Also include a disclaimer that they are legally responsible for having legitimate copies of every game on the disc as doing that simply makes you a service to provide back up copies, which is in fact totally legal.

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Originally Posted by Diosoth

A spindle of 50 blank Memorex CDs at Walmart was... about $12. Torrent downloads are free. If I made such discs at $10 each there's no way I could justify "time and money".

Something also tells me that a certain someone has already emailed the guy and he'll show up here to "defend" himself eventually. That poster knows who he is. I hope the jackass does come here. I hope he finally makes a public death threat or something, anything that can be forwarded to the FBI.

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Pffft, yeah right, you can't hold anyone accountable for shit on the internet unless something IRL is taken into account (i.e. I pay you and you don't deliver the product). There is too much red tape as it has to be proven it was really you at the computer, etc. The FBI won't do shit about someone posting a flippant threat on the internet to someone he doesn't even know IRL.

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Originally Posted by Diosoth

I never have... but I also never lend any of my things out to anyone. A policy I borrowed after a CD I loaned out came back looking like it had been used to play frisbee. Some people believe everything is indestructible and are incapable of taking care fo their things.
Basically, since I wouldn't want someone running off with my things, I don't take theirs.

Repros... if it's unreleased games, translations, or otherwise imports(say, Terranigma playable on an NTSC console) then it should be okay. Repros of stuff like NWC carts or "common but pricey" games shouldn't be allowed.

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I feel you on the loaning thing, I also don't loan stuff out. I feel bad because I would loan stuff if I knew the person would take as good of care as I do, but I know 99% of people wouldn't.

The NWC cart was never commercially marketed and therefore is no different from an import game or an unreleased game, as technically it IS an unreleased game. I agree that unreleased games are more ethical to repro than something like MUSHA, for instance, but both are still considered copyright infringement as you didn't make the game so you have no right to sell the game without paying the original designer.

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Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster

You're arguing as if there's a difference in legality as far as repro's go.
Aside from the issue if the rom was originally released in that market or not, it's still selling copyrighted material which was originally obtained by breaking law and dumping the rom.
I don't see anything wrong with it, unless it's dishonest.

I wouldn't look at comparing Repros to Rom disks myself either. Repros have the original hardware in mind. Emulators are ridiculously portable to various competitive devices. The fact that companies have re-released old material digitally only serves to take the piss out of the foolish argument that 'historical preservation and educational purposes' have anything to do with it.

I have no issue for anybody selling emulators or pirated games, as long as he's clear that they are as such.

I know a lot of people who sell 'modding services', or 'burned backups/emu disks' for 10 bucks just to scrape by and pay bills when needed. I don't begrudge them the opportunity out of some foolish loyalty to a corporation that takes my money for something, and attempts to enforce a usage policy on me.

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Its not breaking the law to dump the rom. Backups are legal if you own a legitimate form of the work, period. Even if NES games aren't volatile memory, they still find ways of ceasing to function (one NES game I bought had a corroded capacitor, for example, which most people can't fix themselves) or a CD can become scratched to the point it can't play. VirtualNES.com operates on this very principle and so far has yet to be shut down. Of course, Nintendo could probably just bankrupt them with frivolous lawsuits if they wanted to, which is a sad truth that big companies can bully little guys like that. That's what happened to Bleem! and Bleem! could've actually boosted Sony's software sales (which is where the profits come from anyway). I think most of that was that Sony saw an easy route to piracy since all it would take to pirate a game is a simple patch to the emulator and voila!

Also, repros vs. rom discs is a stupid argument. Just because the repro is enjoyed by a very elitest accuracy nut doesn't mean its any more legal or of pure intent than someone that wants the convenience and simplicity of a rom disc. A Dreamcast NES emulator with a full rom set is without a doubt the simplest and most convenient way to play NES games on a TV, period. The preference toward simplicity over accuracy is just another gaming viewpoint and should not be regarded any differently. Repros take a higher level of skill to make, but many people don't possess the knowledge to make a repro OR a ROM disc, so to them its the same thing either way: I don't know how to do it, so I'll pay someone else to.

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Originally Posted by Diosoth

Actually, the asshole replied to one of my video game ads to chew me out about my price, and finished with a "fuck you if you flagged my ad". Basically, he yelled at everyone who was selling legit hardware or games. And the cocksucker think I'M the one who "keeps flagging his ads". He cant get it through his thick skull that it takes numerous flags to pull an ad.

And what means to incriminate him? He's already made public CL posts involving bogus legal threats and a desire to meet up for a fist fight. He's brought it on himself. He's the moron who won't let it drop or admit he's breaking the law. I'm surprised the dipshit is smart enough to burn his own CDs or get past the CL CAPTCHA post system, to be honest. If he wants to post a public threat, I'll make sure he gets what's deserved. No one's making the guy bounce around like the Nostalgia Critic, ranting and raving because we won't let him bootleg. It's bad enough he's ripping people off, selling freely available ROMs, but threats because he got busted... maybe he'd be willing to send me his attorney's info if he was even halfway sincere.

It's like those ROM sites that charge for "premium" membership. They have no legal right to do so, nor even any justification to force peopel to pay for pirated material. Nor could I give a damn about their bandwith costs. No one's forcing them to run a bootlegging site. If I want to pay money to obtain a game, I'll get the legit physical copy.

I love how people try to justify piracy. "It's old, the company doesn't sell it anymore." "If I buy it, it'll be used anyway." "It costs too much." I pirate because I'm cheap. I bootleg TV shows, games and pay porn site content but never have I once tried to slap some BS justification on it. Even if I had the money I wouldn't pay for most of it. People are otherwise too weak to admit that it's wrong and have to find ways to make their conscience shut up about torrenting a movie.

I couldn't give a damn if these game companies lose money, because most of them are never happy. They bitch whenever they show a profit, because it's "not enough". They slap on DRM to punish paying customers, which so far has done nothing to stop or slow piracy. They hate the customers. Tell me they are "only around to make money" all you want, but it doesn't excuse DRM or poor customer service.

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Those sites that charge for a "premium" membership do so to pay the high price of hosting the site. Usually its CD or DVD based games that are restricted as those are the largest files. To my knowledge, all ROM sites are strictly non-profit.

Say what you want about preservation, but considering Sega has lost the source code to Panzer Dragoon is enough of a reason to not trust the original copyright owners to preserve these games. Companies can be bought and sold and the respective games tied up in so much red tape the game will never see release again. Sports games are a good example as Nintendo would have to pay out the ass for an NBA license to release NBA JAM on the VC. The legal crap with Argonaut (allegedly, which doesn't make sense as its a software based service and Argonaut made the Super FX chip and is probably comprised of expired patents) will keep Star Fox 2 from seeing the light of day as well.

Piracy for me is done for different reasons for different things. With retro games, its for preservation, convenience, to try out games before buying them, and because of my personal belief that IPs should expire long before they do.

With other things like music, movies, and recent games (the PSP is the only recent system I pirate for), its to either try it out to see if I like it or because I wouldn't buy it anyway so I would just do without otherwise. I never bought CDs before Napster, I haven't bought CDs since Napster. I bought games before ROMs and ISOs, I still do. If I like a game/movie enough, I will buy a legitimate copy. Much of this IS, however, motivated by lack of funds because I don't make all that much money and I need to save that for living expenses down the road. Once I am working full time professionally, I will probably go back and legitimately replace all of my bootlegged material.

As for DRM, if you only buy legitimate stuff and use it as indicated, DRM doesn't hurt you. It does, however, encourage people like me to just download a pirate copy instead of a legitimate mp3, for example, as I can only copy the legitimate mp3 to a handful of supported devices along side other restrictions whereas I can put the pirated mp3 ANYWHERE.

I've almost gotten to the point that I just want to pirate games and send a check to the developer for X amount of dollars. Good developers deserve money, bad ones can blow me. With piracy, I can see which is which before either gets my money.

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Originally Posted by KnightWarrior

Why don't you have him meet somewhere & you bring a cop

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LOLOLOLOL, as if a cop would seriously agree to that. "Hmmm, we got a murder on 6th street, a 10 car pile up on HWY 271, and a guy selling ROMs on craigslist that is pissed off at some other guy for flagging his posts and wants to meet him in person, well, shit, I guess we better go bust that ROMs guy!"

I bet if you walked up to a cop and told them you had 10 GB of ROMs and ISOs they would just tell you to go away. Of all the illegal things you can do, downloading digital copies of copyrighted materials is right next to taking some extra straws and napkins from McDonalds.

Sooooooo much text. Do we have to get into this argument again?

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Originally Posted by InternalPrimate

Sooooooo much text. Do we have to get into this argument again?

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No, but will it happen anyway? Yes.
Set your watch and warrant on it. Say thankee sai. Do ya kennit?

One repo that I would break the bank for would be an NTSC Terranigma. But since I've heard that's basically impossible, I went out and bought the real thing. I'm just making the point that I would celebrate a worthwhile repo like that one.

Repro = 1 rom

Rom Disc = hundreds of roms


A repro is not legal because the rom is not yours,
so what about a cdr/dvdr filled with hundreds if not thousands of roms?
I'd like to think thats a bit worse then gutting an original Genesis/Nes game and replacing the rom.

The roms are not yours to sell and make money off, the copyright does not belong to you.
how can anyone even defend that?

a repro because someone wanted to have something he could hold and use in his treasured hardware,
or a rom disc because they are apparently "pure" gamers.

if they were that "pure" they'd bother to download the roms themselves.

to me someone who'd go through the troubles to order a repro game is more of a pure gamer,
then someone who would buy a nes emulator + roms for his dreamcast.

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Originally Posted by InternalPrimate

One repo that I would break the bank for would be an NTSC Terranigma.
But since I've heard that's basically impossible, I went out and bought the real thing.
I'm just making the point that I would celebrate a worthwhile repo like that one.

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Celebration indeed, personally i'd love to have a repro of Bare Knuckle III with a translated cover/manual and the translated rom.

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Originally Posted by NeoVamp

Repro = 1 rom

Rom Disc = hundreds of roms


A repro is not legal because the rom is not yours,
so what about a cdr/dvdr filled with hundreds if not thousands of roms?
I'd like to think thats a bit worse then gutting an original Genesis/Nes game and replacing the rom.

The roms are not yours to sell and make money off, the copyright does not belong to you.
how can anyone even defend that?

a repro because someone wanted to have something he could hold and use in his treasured hardware,
or a rom disc because they are apparently "pure" gamers.

if they were that "pure" they'd bother to download the roms themselves.

to me someone who'd go through the troubles to order a repro game is more of a pure gamer,
then someone who would buy a nes emulator + roms for his dreamcast.





Celebration indeed, personally i'd love to have a repro of Bare Knuckle III with a translated cover/manual and the translated rom.

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What I meant by pure gamer is that they just want to play the game one way or another, they don't care what system its being played on or if its the "authentic" way to play it. Just because you want to hold the game doesn't make it any more or less acceptable than a ROM disc. Yes, a rom disc is more counts of copyright infringement, but the underlying act is virtually the same: selling merchandise that is not yours to sell.

I was just saying the lagality issues of piracy/emulation is the same issue with repros etc. (there are also lega issues with owning imports -depending on country- and certainly for betas and prototypes withough the express consent form the copyright holder of that software)

I totally agree on the scumminess of this, it's explotatious to any customers ignorant enough to not know better (any knowlegible persion wouldn't purchase such a thing, except if they don't have acces to a fast internet connection and you don't have a friend that could help). I feel the emulator "rights" ting is the worst part though, that's even more scummy than some of the rest, and is total BS, don't seel stuff that's normally for free and was developed as an open sourse project... (like if someone was to sell DOSbox with or without added games -though technically there are plenty of shareware games you could legally put in there, and granted there have been some ligitimate commercial uses of dosbox, but that was for selling the game not the emulator)

And of course there is the perfectly legitimate use of emulators and downloaded roms for people that actually own the original software but still wish to have it available in another for. (for simple convienence, or if they lack working original hardware or the original cart/card/disc is broken) Rather than pointlessly forking out money for a digital copy on a modern machine, or a compilation. (in fact this is pretty much all I use SNES emulation for, along with trying out games to see what the're like and for playing unrelesed games -the latter of which I would buy for a reasonable price in electronic/downloadable form)

lol

report hiim to the AUTHORITIES not fucking craigslist dude

dont take his ad down, report the ad to the cops, they call him, do the deal, he goes to jail for being a retard

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Originally Posted by MrMatthews

It's only illegal if the original company complains? He's not lying, he's delusional!

That's like saying it's only illegal to kill someone if the victim's family presses charges.

Idiot.

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I'm pretty sure that last part is true. Pretty sure.