#1. CHILLQuote:
Originally Posted by Ace
#2. Your not talking about the Retrogen right? Cause its made by INNEX.
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#1. CHILLQuote:
Originally Posted by Ace
#2. Your not talking about the Retrogen right? Cause its made by INNEX.
Mine came to my email address.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEdge
I think people need to chill a bit on the audio issue. Just because a few games sound a little off is no reason to condemn the thing. I imagine that many devs/engineers these days grew up on emulated MD, so they may not even realize the sound is wrong!
"Sounds like what I'm used to hearing on my PC!"
It's only in the last few months that enough progress was made on emulation of the YM2612 to get the sound for odd games worked out.
This ^Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly Willy
You little whiney nerdballs (And you know who you are) need to chill out. My RetroGen and my Firecore are both going to be great no matter how high pitched the sound is.
Bottomline......GET OVER IT....
Panorama Cotton would have sold like a flaming dog turd if it had been released in America. If you remember how hype-based the market was at that time and how little of a following Anime had then it's not hard to see it would be rarer than the US version of Mega Man: The Wily Wars (hyperbole).Quote:
Originally Posted by Christuserloeser
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEdge
Wrong, it's imported and marketed by Innex (same goes for other clones by AtGames or Yobo etc.). These clones are made by god knows who in god knows where and are just getting a brand slapped on it. Most of them use the same chip and are just continually put in different shells and sold as a different product.
A little bit too techincal Hombre....Quote:
Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes
But you do agree that these dudes need to chill right?
I agree they should just buy a PSP with a broken UMD for $60 off of eBay (preferably a slim, since it has A/V out), mod it, then play Genesis via Picodrive and not have to lug cartridges around and get super accurate sound and graphics to boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEdge
OR wait until there is a handheld that works like the SD powered plug n play I posted in the "win?" thread.
For me, if it's not the same or somehow improved, I don't see any reason not to just use emulation. I have cartridges basically just to say "look bitch, I own this game, I can play a ROM of it" or to test my skills without any possible innaccuracies from emulation.
For some reason my excitement for getting the Retrogen just turned to excitement for playing those Freebie games that come with it.
Odd, right?
Not bad for an emulated clone. I'm glad that Beggar Prince and that flash cart work. Which flash cart did you use, Beastech?
I actually thought the snowboarding game was for the download service, not a built in one. ;) It makes sense though.
Also, I am sort of disappointed about the sound, though this was expected. I could slightly forgive them for that since it's software emulation on a complex sound chip. It's better than the NOAC chips, which are hardware emulation, that mess up the duty cycles for the pulse waves. Also, Green Hill Zone sounds kind of cool with the messed up audio. :rofl:
All in all, I just might buy this one if Nomads are unavailable.
^ I'm surprised that Audio quality on a handheld is such a big deal. hmm
If it makes you feel any better, I've had a Nomad since EB was selling them, and I never would play Sonic 3 & Knuckles on it. You'd have to try a few times on the old dirty carts to get them to even load properly, then if you barely moved your hand it's like the cart would lose a connection and freeze. I had the same issues with other odd-sized carts in the thing as well (Virtua Racing!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Beastech
So basically, if you are having issues with it on the Retrogen, it might not have anything to do with the system itself.
Hmm, maybe on the anime thing, but the game is still eye candy, no matter how Japanese it seems. (I suppose they could have americanized it as well, but that could have ened badly) Othewise, an entirely dfferent game based on that could have been really cool, and just as eye candy-y. (or just a sprite swap of Panorama Cotton with different voice samples)Quote:
Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes
I don't care for anime particularly (not biased one way or another really), but I do love rail shooters, so maybe that's why. ;)
Umm clone consoles do use "real" hardware though, and in the case of the FCC 3 Plus, the sound is (arguably) better than on a Model 1 (pre VA-7). And even other clones like Gen-X and GN-Twin can be modded for better sound, and one of those is even Virtua Racing compatible. (though none of thses uses stock genesis controllers without modding, which is an advantage for the firecore) That and some of these are mono only, but I think the firecore is the same. (I think for RetroGen as well) Granted there's also th ecolor tinge problem on some of the poorer clones, but FC 3 Plus has great video, if only Yobo would release a standalone Genesis/MD clone using standard controller ports and preferably fix virtua racing compatibility that would be great. (maybe add S-Video, although converting the native RGB to analog YPbPr component video requires much simpler circuitry, but then again they can use a video encoder that supports S-Video and you should easily have composite as well, which is needed for the baseline standard)Quote:
Originally Posted by 0x15e
I don't see what a clone ASIC based handheld wouldn't be possible and practical with modern technology. (the big thing being th efar more efficient backlit LCD screens) Hell, TmEE managed to extend his Nomad to 5 hours on 2100 mAh rechargeables with his LED backlighting mod.
No, I will not chill. There are unlicensed clones that get the sound better than this garbage.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0x15e
YES! I'm talking about the RetroGEN. It is NOT made by Innex or RetroBit. AtGames takes care of this whole thing, and even though there's no AtGames logo, just the "FireCore" name on the game selection screen for the built-in games is a dead giveaway.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEdge
Wait, wait, wait... WHAT?! A few games??? What are you thinking?! It's EVERYTHING THAT SOUNDS WRONG!! Every single game you will put into this console will sound wrong! Granted, I don't mind how certain games sound like, but come on! This is bullshit! The RetroGEN and FireCore are LICENSED PRODUCTS, and they can't even get the emulation right, while unlicensed clones like the Yobo FC3 Plus get everything right minus compatibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly Willy
Are you friggin' KIDDING?! I'd rather hack my own portable Genesis than have to resort to emulation. I HATE EMULATION!Quote:
Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes
Guys, come on. Wouldn't you expect BETTER from a licensed product? But, either way, I'm a big Sega guy, and even though I developed an absolute HATRED for AtGames(and I will sound like a hypocrite for saying this), I'm curious to just pick these up and see for myself how the games I own will sound like with the low pitch. My opinion on the lower sound pitch may change, and who knows? It might be for the better.
You sound like a guy who loves marinating in his own farts?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
Can someone get this guy a Peanut Gallery membership? Quickly please before the fart smell Dissipates.
Careful, TheEdge, I'm not in the mood for bullshit. I've been in a bad mood all day long, and I don't need any more attacks against my rambling.
And I will tell you right away that I will take that stupid Peanut Gallery membership, whatever the hell it is, and throw it out the window.
Yeah, that's the main problem... if this surpassed th equality of most clones that wouldn't be an issue, even if th esound wasn't as good as FC 3 Plus, real controller compatibility (and hopefully accessories like mouse and lightguns) would put it ahead. If it was even Genesis 3 quality that would be great! (mono and some -moddable- incompatibility but clean sound and video and incredibly compact) Hell, even VA-7 modle 1/VA0/1.x Model 2 quality sound would be tolerable, muddy, but at least the pitch and volume are right, plus there's stereo. (although I'd probably take Genny 3 mono over that quality stereo)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
Still the protability (for RetroGen) is a nice aspect, but sice it's just emulation, the main advantage (over using another, more versitle handheld platform with equal or better emulation) would be games with saves IMO, so you can play those games at home and contunue them on the go and vice versa. If it had a player 2 port that would be a big advantage as well, but it doesn't. (not just for a second controller but also Zero Tolerance link)
Hey, I like emulation, at least when its Fusion quality... (and with a good controller)Quote:
Are you friggin' KIDDING?! I'd rather hack my own portable Genesis than have to resort to emulation. I HATE EMULATION!
Wait, low pitch? It doesn't seem consistant, some seems low and other high (at least for just FM), and DAC playback definitely seems too high pitched. (particulatly noticeable in the "Say-gaa" of the start-up screen)Quote:
Guys, come on. Wouldn't you expect BETTER from a licensed product? But, either way, I'm a big Sega guy, and even though I developed an absolute HATRED for AtGames(and I will sound like a hypocrite for saying this), I'm curious to just pick these up and see for myself how the games I own will sound like with the low pitch. My opinion on the lower sound pitch may change, and who knows? It might be for the better.
Altered beast sounds OK, but Sonic sounds just terrible in that youtube video.
So far as I can tell, AtGames is doing both the Retrogen and the GenMobile-- I have the poste on my wall with AtGames clearly emblazoned on it.
So is AtGames cleaning up on both fronts??
Low sound pitch applies to FM and PSG, but PCM has the opposite problem, with the sound pitch being too high.
No way in hell; the sound coming out of a VA7 Genesis 1 and VA0-1.8 Genesis 2 is just too shitty for me to listen to.Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
You have just redeemed yourself good sir. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Ace
I redeemed myself? Very well, then. Though I smell a hint of sarcasm with that smiley...
I'm a guy who's suspicious of everything. Spit out the details, TheEdge.
And I'm not afraid to answer back like I did to your Peanut Gallery membership.
Wow you guys are lively today! Well, I don't play favorites in my videos I just show whats going on. Oh yeah, here is the first one!
If you REALLY want to know what I think though, I like it. ALOT. Not just because I'm selling it, but because I can play my REAL Genesis games on the go with an incredible screen. Something I couldn't do before. Also, its a portable, the sound isn't really that big of a deal on something like this. At least to me anyways. It WAS an issue for me on the Firecore system though, I mean its coming through your TV. Big difference.
Does anyone know if a company will be shipping these outside of the US? Sorry if someone has asked already.
Beastech will ship you one it will just cost $15 dollars for shipping. Which is probably 30 euros.
I added Beastech's impressions to the MEGA Bites article. Hopefully this thing's as good as he says. I'm itching to get one.
I just watched the second gameplay footage vid. Beggar Prince looks excellent. I'm really looking forward to playing my Genesis RPGs on this baby.
LOL at the funny built in games. But I'll take them over nothing at all. ;) What's with the Human version of frogger? The Snow boarding game wasn't that bad. Jack's Pea was lovely, and I think I will enjoy the Space Invaders clone as well. Also, that tank shmupster.
Thanks Beastech, once again: You're a man of your word. :D
Well here it is folks, direct feed video footage of actual Genesis games on the Retrogen.
Hey Melf, I was wondering if you were checking any of this stuff out. This is the Retrogen fed directly into my PC using a GameBridge.
Hey, there's a graphical error in Thunder Force IV! You are not supposed to see anything where the HUD is at the top of the screen aside from the HUD's contents.
And wow, does Thunder Force IV ever sound like shit. The music is just murdered.
On a brighter note, I'm quite surprised as to how some games sound like with the lower sound pitch. Sonic 2 is okay, but I particularly like Sonic 3D Blast with the lower sound pitch.
And is just me, or does the RetroGEN have a good amount of bass?
Also, is the White Noise part of the PSG sound channel slightly too silent?
EDIT: Hey, wouldn't you know it? My laptop has a feature to increase/decrease the sound pitch of every sound that it outputs! I guess that's a good quick fix for the sound pitch problem on my end: just run the sound from the RetroGEN and FireCore into my TV Tuner and adjust the sound pitch accordingly.
The sound in Streets of Rage 2 is just horrendous.
Just to reiterate/rephrase what others as well as I have already mentioned: We're not really listening to these games through the handheld's speakers.
I personally don't mind that the sound is a bit off on a portable system, since I'll be lowering it as much as possible to increase battery life.
Why on earth would you hate emulation? I can understand complaints about emulation of yore with horrendous graphical and sound glitches, hazy stability, poor compatibility, etc., but now emulation is usually better than all but the best version of the respective system. In most situations, I would prefer Kega Fusion to a model 2 and especially a clone Genesis. True, real hardware tends to have more responsive controls (slightly), but given the convenience, graphics filters, save states, etc. of emulation, there's just nothing not to like about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
Now if it's some sort of misplaced ethical issue, there's nothing I can do about that, I personally feel that these games are way too old to be protected like they are (then again, many people know my stance on copyrights, so we won't get into that).
The latest version (at least the latest version when I loaded it onto my memory stick) of Picodrive is very accurate and even has two different modes for speed vs. accuracy (speed mode for the more taxing games). Almost every game I throw at it works without issue and is much better than a bulky ass blur fest Nomad.
The only reason I can imagine someone disliking emulation is because they aren't aware of how far it has come in the past few years or they don't know how to configure it properly (VSync goes a long way, I can't stand emulators that don't have it, on that note, anyone know how to enable it in PC MAME?). Even the ROMs are so incredibly easy to come by it's laughable.
As for the licensed product thing, I'm kind of surprised at how little everyone seems to know about how business works. I can almost 100% assure you this is how it happened:
somewhere at a reverse engineering lab in China:
哎呀! 它创世纪克隆!
(Holy shit! a Genesis clone!)
somewhere at AtGames headquarters:
Holy shit! a Genesis clone! Let's license some games and whore it out!
somewhere at Sega headquarters:
Holy shit! free money for whoring out our name! Where do we sign!?
Never confuse "licensed by" with "made by." Even if it was made by Sega, you have to remember that the people calling the shots are people interested in making money vs. people concerned with making it sound exactly as you remember during your childhood. No kid is going to know or care the difference in sound accuracy, which is why the Sega Ages compilation on Dreamcast was such a shit-fest.
The experience and the accuracy. I demand no less than 100% accuracy. Plus, where's the fun in just loading up a stupid ROM file as compared to pulling out the old *insert console here* and putting in an actual cartridge? I'm a sucker for actual consoles, whether it's the original hardware or clones(I only get the clones for curiosity's sake). I just use emulators to play games I can't find on cartridge, but once I find them, the ROM ends up in my computer's Recycle Bin. The only emulator I use extensively is MAME and the Sega Model 2 emulator because there's just no way in hell I'll even own the original arcade cabinets, but if I could, I would buy the original cabinets.Quote:
Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes
And I don't give a damn about graphic filters and save states. Graphical filters mean nothing to me, and this whole "save state" thing is just perfect for cheating, something I am 100% AGAINST.
I personally have never done emulation. But I bought this system simply because I wanted a handheld that would, both, play my genesis carts and open my horizons to the East. I can't wait to get me a real, hard copy of Alien Soldier and pulseman. That'll be the day. :D
Also, it kicks ass.
The Price is 50$ + 15$ = 44 €Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEdge
Someone is selling the retrogen already at ebay for 69 $ http://cgi.ebay.com/RetroGen-Portabl...item1c0d19639a
Umm, what about headphones... No need to crank it all the way up for that. (it should have also allowed stereo via the headphones ans AV out)Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSciFi
I like emultion, and in some respects you can get accuracy and then some... and lots of options, except for games with saves and controllers (I should look into gettin a Saturn USP controller) I really don't feel much different from playing on real hardware, except for video quality differences (depending on filters and such) and the lack of the hiss in the sound of my model 1. (not much from the headphone amp, but the quantization noise is quite noticeable some thimes -it's present in RF, mono AV and headphone output) It's more fun in general to bring th eold console over to a freind's house though and set it up, moreso than hooking my laptop up. (I don't have 2 good USB gamepads either ATM, but I would have the option of using S-Video output to a TV)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
In the case of Sega CD games you can even use the actual media, though in my laptop's case I'm using them all as virtual CDs backed up to my harddrive. (my main CD/DVD drive is mapped as drive B, which fusion doesn't like apparently, so I have to use one of the virtual drives instead)
Wow, really I can't stand the Sonic 3D balst music, and barely so for Sonic 2. (the ring sounds are awful, musinc is moderately tolerable) If anything I find TFIV slightly more tolerable... They ruined EWJ too... especially with the crap sample playback, which is a key feature of that game. I think you're right about th ebass though, but that's not necessarily a good thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
Gee, I don't know...playing the game maybe?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
I'd say "what's the point of the hassle" of loading the cartridge in the slot.
To me, a game is a game is a game is a game and what is used to play it is just a means to an end. IMO a model 2 Genesis is no more "100% accurate" than Kega Fusion as both are inferior to an HD Graphics model 1. At the same time, any emulator with good accuracy and a graphics filter will look better than a model 1. Say what you will, but IMO a game with an HQ2X or SuperScale 2X filter is the way the games were meant to look but couldn't because of hardware limitations. As for save states, I don't have 3 hours to play all the way through Mario 3 in one sitting. With save states, I play for as long as I want, save the state, and come back whenever. All of these games would've had save functions if the cost effectiveness was there, but because it was pricey, only RPGs and sports games had it. As for cheating, I think it's completely reasonable to recon a game with incremental save states rather than beating your head against the wall playing the first 2 levels until you can figure out how to beat the 3rd. Of course there's no glory in beating it with incremental states, but that's why you train with them and then play it without save states or on real hardware to test your skills. It's like practicing backflips on a Motocross bike into a foam pit vs. onto hard packed dirt.
I must have an "old fashioned" way of thinking when it comes to emulators. 'cause I'm against the use of save states and such, but if one likes the idea for practice, then that's not my problem. In fact, the whole emulation thing is not my problem. I don't like it, we'll just leave it at that. No point throwing arguments back and forth over why emulation is better than original hardware and vice versa. It can get out of hand really quickly if I'm part of the argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
Oh god you're so hardcore. I really hope someday I can be as hardcore as you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
I'm probably going to be playing mine mostly with the sound off I think, and hope someone comes up with a mod for it. That SOR2 music is just disgusting. :yuck:
OK Ace, then just leave it at that, to each their own. :D
I wouldn't call that "old fashioned" - I was hacking Pitfall II on the Atari to add save states back in '84. I'd call it "narrow minded" instead. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
I'm really interested in this retrogen. My main concern (other than the audio which is what i suspected but I can let that slide) is how is the d-pad? the dasreviews guy says its like a nickel? it looks odd, but how does it perform? say compared to an actual genesis controller?
It was such a shit-fest because the emulator used was initially given out for free along with the free Dream Passport 3 web browser - for use with Dream Library, a "Virtual Console"-type of service covering Mega Drive / Genesis and PC Engine / TG-16.Quote:
Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes
Sega of America (who unlike Sega of Europe and Sega of Japan used Planet Web instead of Dream Passport) then took this emulator, threw a few games on there, called it "Sega Smash Pack Vol.1" (Sega Ages is a Japanese series) and sold it for the moneys.
DP3 came out in early 2001, shortly after Dreamcast was cancelled. We will never know if later releases would have fixed the sound issues.