kids today....

About a week ago, I went to my friend's house to hang out. He likes to play Wii, PS3, and old nintendo games, so I offered to bring over my Genesis. He said fine. Keep in mind that I'm 18 and he's 17. So I bring it over and the first thing I put in is Sonic 3. He asked me what the controls were and I told him. He said "How do you run faster without the dash button?". I said it's not Mario, it's Sonic. He wasn't too impressed with using tails with me in 1 player mode, so we did 2 player mode. He said that a "brain-dead monkey" could get through the courses. I asked him what exactly he expected from a game from 1994. Next, I put in Vectorman 1. I told him it was Sega's answer to DKC. He didn't see the resemblance. He and his little brother were really put off by it's difficulty and the fact that you can't save every 5 seconds. I said that's how games used to be; they were hard and you had to play from the beginning or enter a code. They both said that's retarded. After we were done, I asked him what he thought of it. He said "it's alright for what it is". Keep in mind that he has a lot of old nintendo games on his Wii. I told him that I strongly prefer it to the nes. He and his brother gave me a yeah right look. I find it really weird that I can fully appreciate the Genny, while someone else my age doesn't get it seemingly just because it doesn't have the word nintendo stamped on it. It also makes me realize how much easier games have gotten since the good old days. Your thoughts?

The kid has developed a deformed taste for games and has been spoiled on things like save states, compact discs, and controllers with many buttons. Bah.

Modern kids are stupid, plain and simple. I remember my childhood. I had a NES a Genesis and an Atari. I had no problems with the atari, it was a videogame and I had no right to complain.

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Originally Posted by zetastrike

He wasn't too impressed with using tails

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Well there's where you went wrong, no one likes playing as Tails. ;)

Seriously though, retro gaming isn't everyone's cup of tea. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the majority of gamers that are under the age of 25 either play classics sparingly, if they even do at all. With that being said, I do believe everyone that considers themselves a gamer should at least have an appreciation of the classics, regardless of the 'primitive' graphics or brutal difficulty or the bleeps and bloops that made up their soundtracks.

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Originally Posted by zetastrike

Next, I put in Vectorman 1. I told him it was Sega's answer to DKC. He didn't see the resemblance.

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Well, I don't see the resemblance neither. They're totally different games. Comparing them is like comparing Out Run with Mario Kart.

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Originally Posted by zetastrike

About a week ago, I went to my friend's house to hang out. He likes to play Wii, PS3, and old nintendo games, so I offered to bring over my Genesis. He said fine. Keep in mind that I'm 18 and he's 17. So I bring it over and the first thing I put in is Sonic 3. He asked me what the controls were and I told him. He said "How do you run faster without the dash button?". I said it's not Mario, it's Sonic. He wasn't too impressed with using tails with me in 1 player mode, so we did 2 player mode. He said that a "brain-dead monkey" could get through the courses. I asked him what exactly he expected from a game from 1994. Next, I put in Vectorman 1. I told him it was Sega's answer to DKC. He didn't see the resemblance. He and his little brother were really put off by it's difficulty and the fact that you can't save every 5 seconds. I said that's how games used to be; they were hard and you had to play from the beginning or enter a code. They both said that's retarded. After we were done, I asked him what he thought of it. He said "it's alright for what it is". Keep in mind that he has a lot of old nintendo games on his Wii. I told him that I strongly prefer it to the nes. He and his brother gave me a yeah right look. I find it really weird that I can fully appreciate the Genny, while someone else my age doesn't get it seemingly just because it doesn't have the word nintendo stamped on it. It also makes me realize how much easier games have gotten since the good old days. Your thoughts?

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Interesting. Where you level headed the whole time? Judging by your post, it seems you were. So, it's not like your friend and his brother are new to classic 2D games, right? Sounds like they had experience via VC. I take it emulation as well, maybe? It just sounds like he was being a bit defensive.

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I find it really weird that I can fully appreciate the Genny, while someone else my age doesn't get it seemingly just because it doesn't have the word nintendo stamped on it.

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It's not too weird. It happened a lot BITD. And for fans of different systems too. It still happens from time to time here on this forum (and on other forums). People here have automatically rejected Nintendo games for the very reason your friend rejected your Genesis games. 'Sure to see the samething with Nintendo fans. Even PC-Engine fans. Atari fans. C64 fans. Etc.

Glad my 15 year old brother isn't like that, but I lready mentioned that in that thread with the youtube video with that kid playing Contra.

Still the case in point irks me a bit more than that contra kid, I mean someone completely ignorant of classic games being a bit reserved about them makes sense. But blatent bias from those already quite familiar with classic NES (and SNES?) games is another story...
Tomaitheous brought up how it happened all the time bitd, but a lot of that was driven by marketing hype combined with fan loyalty, and only the latter would really apply here.

Does he have any non-nintendo VC games? (or PC EMU for that matter)


We've pretty much been equaly opertunity gamers at my house, granted it was mainly nintendo growing up (NES through Wii, and most handhelds), but PC gaming kind of tempered this, and there wasn't a whole lot of bias going on other than just a lack of playing comprting systems as much. (I think we now own consoles from all the major historical comprtitors except coleco and Sony -even Mattel in th eform of an old LED Football game)

Welcome to being a SEGA fan!

It happens. Also depends on your area, I suppose... around here, old game stuff gets pretty much universal praise from the people I know (we're talking kids 14-18 that inhabit my school). They wholeheartedly approve when I've hauled in the ol' Genesis for some multiplayer action at after-school clubs, and some of them have told me that they have one and still play it often (in fact, I had such a conversation today). There's really only one really young kid who is very stubborn and won't settle for anything that's not the Xbox 360 (he irrationally claims the other companies are in support of homosexuals and therefore he will not play them) but apart from that I'm always surprised by how much everyone appreciates the old games. It's like a polar opposite from what you would expect.

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Originally Posted by zetastrike

I asked him what exactly he expected from a game from 1994.

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Hey now, lets not put down gaming in the 90s.....I'll go out on a limb and say that I expect less from a game in 09 than I do a game from 94. :p

Hear, hear.

It sounds like he, and his little brother, most likely succumbed to peer pressure. I know what it's like, I have a younger brother myself. I would've never succumbed to peer pressure, but there's a nurturing need for the big brother to "act cool" in front of the little one, and for the latter to follow up on the big one like he's a "hero". I'm just glad you're like I was back in the day and chose to open your mind about things (it was the Atari 2600 for me, actually, comparing my story to yours). So, welcome to the club, my friend, where arrogance is laid to waste and replaced by a hunger for wisdom.:D

P.S.> All this talk about opening your mind follows the assumption that you also appreciate Nintendo for its virtues, of course (as well as all things retro).

Hmm, I wonder if you would have better luck with different games!

I've always thought that Sonic 2 is the best Sonic game. I think that the 2-player split-screen mode is much better in Sonic 2 than Sonic 3, and I also like Sonic 2's special stages much more than Sonic 3's. Oh yeah, and it's true that most people dislike playing as Tails in the 1-player mode. Maybe he could play as Sonic, and you could play as Tails?

I know it is said that Vectorman is the answer to DKC, but they really are completely different games, so I can understand if he didn't see the resemblance. But otherwise, it's disappointing that he couldn't appreciate such a solid game!

Do you have some other killer games he might appreciate more? How about Gunstar Heroes, or Streets of Rage 2!!!

I don't think zetastrike said he mentioned he saw a resemblance in both games, he only said what everyone knows: that Vectorman was the answer to Donkey Kong Country. It was his friend who gave the wise-ass answer. DKC, like Vectorman, was in fact an answer to the already evident capacity of the, then, next gen consoles (those that had already debuted, and those that were soon to come). Both the SNES (Nintendo) and the Genesis (Sega) needed to move beyond their hardware capabilities to prove they were still worthy adversaries against the subsequent generation of consoles. We've seen the same marketing move in the past, as well as in later consoles. The point is: We should all be glad these companies succumbed to the industry's pressure, otherwise we wouldn't be able to enjoy today the marvels that are Vectorman and DKC, respectively.

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Originally Posted by Christuserloeser

Well, I don't see the resemblance neither. They're totally different games. Comparing them is like comparing Out Run with Mario Kart.

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Yeah, the Vectorman vs. DKC annoys the piss out of me. Nothing is alike, at all. Pilotwings vs. Vectorman makes more sense because at least they were both somewhat tech demos. DKC is not technically impressive in any way shape or form, all of the 3D is pre-rendered and is no different than Earthworm Jim or Sonic or Mario or any other sprite based platformer. No doubt, RARE did a great job on the art end and the gameplay is fun, but by no means is it a technical marvel. Sonic 3 is a better comparison than Vectorman.





Back on topic:

People that say Sonic is too easy, etc. don't get the point. Sonic isn't just about getting through the level, its about getting through the level FAST and more importantly getting through with enough rings so you can get all of the chaos emeralds. If you don't get all of the chaos emeralds, you didn't really beat the game. Plus, the later levels DO get hard. Metropolis Zone always hands me my ass at least a couple times. One of my favorite parts about Sonic was the fact you didn't have to hold the run button the whole time. I would've preferred to hold a button to walk in a Mario game.

Games didn't have saves for no other reason than cost. It was really expensive for battery saves in cartridges, cartridges that were already $60 or $70 because of the silicon chip design. I also hate the fact that old games didn't have save states, which is why I love the fact that emulators have save states so I can play a game through in multiple sittings.

I don't buy the whole generational excuse though. I'm pretty sure I played the Genesis before I played the Atari 2600, but it didn't stop me from fucking loving Combat. I would jizz in my pants if I found a Vectrex for cheap at a vintage game store. Star Fox is pathetically inadequate by today's standards, but it's one of my favorite games of all time (I think the music has alot to do with that, SOOO good). I guess it goes hand in hand with the people that say "I can't watch [movie X] because the special effects are so bad compared to today's standards." Shit, the original Terminator used tin foil and an LED in the death sequence of the T-800, but that movie is still mindblowingly awesome. Brittney Spears might have the clearest hi-def microphone on the planet, it doesn't mean I wouldn't rather listen to a Beatles song any day of the week. People need to learn to look past technical details for quality thought and development. It doesn't matter how many polygons the Playstation 9 can put out, TMNT: Turtles in Time will still rock my world every time.

^Same response as above.

Sorry but 17daysolderthannes', post reminded me of this... enjoy! :mrgreen:

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Originally Posted by Chaniyth

Sorry but 17daysolderthannes', post reminded me of this... enjoy! :mrgreen:

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I was expecting "Wake Me Up Before You Go Go" by Wham! It would've been much more inappropriate...

I guess I should be thankful none of my friends are really like that, all of my friends seem to appreciate retro gaming, not specifically obsess with it, but they appreciate it.

It helps most of them grew up with 90's consoles however.

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Originally Posted by QuickSciFi

It sounds like he, and his little brother, most likely succumbed to peer pressure. I know what it's like, I have a younger brother myself. I would've never succumbed to peer pressure, but there's a nurturing need for the big brother to "act cool" in front of the little one, and for the latter to follow up on the big one like he's a "hero". I'm just glad you're like I was back in the day and chose to open your mind about things (it was the Atari 2600 for me, actually, comparing my story to yours). So, welcome to the club, my friend, where arrogance is laid to waste and replaced by a hunger for wisdom.:D

P.S.> All this talk about opening your mind follows the assumption that you also appreciate Nintendo for its virtues, of course (as well as all things retro).

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Of course. The SNES is my favorite system, with the Genny at a close #2.

The amount of ignorance, just really doesn't surprise me at all, coming from a retro gaming forum, I would expect this.

A lot of people, well at least a few, said "lol modern kids are stupid, lol.", or along the lines of that.

You can't expect people to have the same opinion as you, especially if your age differs. I bet in 1994, if I took my Genesis over to someone who was dedicated Nintendo fan, their reactions would be same. I know lots of Nintendo fans who don't give two fucks about the Genesis, it has nothing to do whateversoever of the age, it's because of their tastes in video games. Stereotyping makes you look like a dumbass, but sadly, many people don't notice the 'dumbassery' because they use the same stereotypes themselves. There is nothing wrong with this generation, people just change.

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Originally Posted by GriskaGyoran

Modern kids are stupid, plain and simple. I remember my childhood. I had a NES a Genesis and an Atari. I had no problems with the atari, it was a videogame and I had no right to complain.

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I'm looking at you, GriskaGyoran. Calling people stupid because their opinions are different than you makes you dumb, especially when we're talking about video games. People have different tastes, learn to encounter them in real life, and make yourself look like a fool.

This one time i was talking to a guy in a game store and this kid came in and asked what that thing on the wall was.
so the guy behind the counter said "thats a Nintendo 64"
and he said he'd never heard of it.

yeah then you feel old. http://www.sega-16.com/forum/images/icons/talking.gif

And you can't blame someone for not knowing that stuff,
but if i recall correctly he wasn't amazed either, more like an "oh its old" attitude.

I think the problem here is that we'd love this stuff and we want to share it with people,
but then you meet people who look upon your most beloved hobby as if it were a collection of used tissues.

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Originally Posted by NeoVamp

This one time i was talking to a guy in a game store and this kid came in and asked what that thing on the wall was.
so the guy behind the counter said "thats a Nintendo 64"
and he said he'd never heard of it.

yeah then you feel old. http://www.sega-16.com/forum/images/icons/talking.gif

And you can't blame someone for not knowing that stuff,
but if i recall correctly he wasn't amazed either, more like an "oh its old" attitude.

I think the problem here is that we'd love this stuff and we want to share it with people,
but then you meet people who look upon your most beloved hobby as if it were a collection of used tissues.

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N64 wouldn't make me feel old, its just over 10 years old, its not THAT old. There are plenty of people my age that wouldn't recognize an N64, some people just aren't around video games enough to know anything beyond a playstation a cousin gave them a few years ago.

Retro games are an acquired taste like black and white films or big band swing. You can tell alot about a person by their willingness to go outside of the current "in" products/fashion/etc. and to give everything an honest try before approving or condemning it. Retro games have a purity from the miniscule development teams that simply can't exist with modern games unless you're talking about NES-esque flash games.

I've talked to kids that didn't even know the difference between SNES an NES. The people that call them selfs gamers these days..

I don't know if I'm bothered by KID's these days, more like the tweens/teens who grew up during the PSX/N64 era who have had no experience with 2D or any gaming beforehand that just bash anything that looks "old" or is "hard" or is "short" or ain't a sequel to a popular franchise.

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Originally Posted by Holy Emperor92

tweens/teens who grew up during the PSX/N64 era

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I certainly fall under that category, moreso for my younger brother.

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who have had no experience with 2D or any gaming beforehand that just bash anything that looks "old" or is "hard" or is "short" or ain't a sequel to a popular franchise.

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Yeah, there's the difference, we didn't have an N64 until holiday 1999, or even SNES until 96/95-ish. (just NES before that, well and PC all the way, so we did have some 3D experiences, mainly X-Wing -and some old flight sims my dad mostly played)

So I guess that tempered me (and my brother who started playing the NES in 1995 when he was less than 1). Though I think my general gravitation toward old stuff has a lot more to do with it. (history, but old electronics in general, like an old GE PortaColor we have, and the packed up Atari I beged to have set up so I could play it for the first time around 1999/2000)

That said, I do tend to fine old games "harder" though some moreso when I was younger. For example, I used to find Star Fox (SNES) much more difficult than the N64 game (I couldn't even beat the SNES game on easy), but after I was ~14/15 it flipped. (and I was then and am currently better at the SNES version) Kind of odd.
But in general, other newer games seem easier, lack of saves probably has to do with part of it, or lack of lives in some cases. (Treasure Island Dizzy is a real killer in that respect)

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Originally Posted by HappehLemons

I've talked to kids that didn't even know the difference between SNES an NES. The people that call them selfs gamers these days..

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Well, they're gamers - not specifically "retro" gamers. How many kids that had a Genesis or SNES, or hell even before that with an NES/SMS, knew much of anything about the 2600 or old 8bit computers. Here in the states, most likely next to nothing. Couldn't tell the difference between a 2600 and a 5200. But nor did they need to, to be considered a "gamer". But you know, old timer gamers were complaining back then what you/we are complaining right now. It's funny :)

Hell, I don't know the difference between a 5600 and a 2600. But then again I don't shoot my mouth off.

I think that's the real problem with kids today, the only experiences they have are from TV and they don't have any respect for anything or anyone. Everyone thinks they are the main character in an action movie or something. In reality most people wind up like the janitor guy in T2, shot to death because someone important was standing behind them. But oh no, everybody is John Connor...

All hope is not lost. Just a few minutes ago I was at a movie theater and two 12-15 year olds were huddled around the NAMCO Pac-Man/Galaga multi-cade and enthusiastically pumping quarters into it.

Like I said in my previous post, it's like black and white films or big band music, you just have to be introduced to it and understand why it is the way it is to appreciate and enjoy it. There are plenty of kids today that still enjoy Tom and Jerry or Bugs Bunny cartoons from the ?60's? more than alot of modern dogshit like Dora the Explorer.

Retrogaming is more alive now than it was 10 years ago (talking NES/Genesis/SNES era) with retro compilations, Wii VC, XBOX Live Arcade, PSNetwork, and iPhone games on the iTunes App Store as people are making hi-res modern versions of classic games. I think slowly but surely we'll see a return to older concepts like side-scrolling platformers and vertical/horizontal shooters. Remember too, those types of games were driven into the ground back in the day. Seriously, count all of the platformers and vertical/horizontal shooters made back then and ask again why they disappeared for a while. The same thing happened with the 80's "blow up everything for no apparent reason"-style action movies.

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Originally Posted by Nunzio

Hell, I don't know the difference between a 5600 and a 2600. But then again I don't shoot my mouth off.

I think that's the real problem with kids today, the only experiences they have are from TV and they don't have any respect for anything or anyone. Everyone thinks they are the main character in an action movie or something. In reality most people wind up like the janitor guy in T2, shot to death because someone important was standing behind them. But oh no, everybody is John Connor...

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It's funny you say that because John Connor was like the role model of my life all through the 90's. Aside from the incredibly wimpy girl voice, he was the mother fucking shit. Although, it wasn't the "I'm the savior of the universe" sort of thing, I just liked how capable and independent he was for being so young.

I do kind of agree with what you're saying though, rather than saying "I want to be John Connor" and busting ass to work their way to the top, they just expect it to be handed to them. People make such unrealistic goals and then are traumatized when they aren't realized. "You mean I don't just move to Hollywood and go straight to being a lead actor? you gotta be shittin me!" I would lose my shit if someone casted me to give coffee to a supporting actor in a non speaking role at a coffee shop. The only way people ever feel the need to better themselves is if they are constantly reminded of where they stand. If parents tell their child they are master of the universe because they successfully shit on a toilet, it's going to be hard to explain to them you don't make $2 million a year by making straight D's all through school.

In regards to old games feeling just... blah.

This happens when you've been exposed to the latest graphics and technology.

I sometimes feel I have to kind of reset my brain again in order to really appreciate some Genny games.

"This was the best graphics ever back then, just enjoy it" I have to say to myself.

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Originally Posted by Baloo

The kid has developed a deformed taste for games and has been spoiled on things like save states, compact discs, and controllers with many buttons. Bah.

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meh, all that was accessible to a genesis owner, save states existed in Sega CD games, it was a compact disc, and the Genesis was the first to get the 6-button controller.

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Originally Posted by megadriveworld

In regards to old games feeling just... blah.

This happens when you've been exposed to the latest graphics and technology.

I sometimes feel I have to kind of reset my brain again in order to really appreciate some Genny games.

"This was the best graphics ever back then, just enjoy it" I have to say to myself.

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I guess you have trouble putting yourself in the time then. I can go play a game that's 10+ years old and look at the graphics and think "These are amazing!" and "Wow!".

I guess I don't have much of a problem with putting myself in the time period.

I consider it my duty to make sure that, no matter how advanced video games get in the future, my son will always have an appreciation for the classics.

For tonight's lesson, I plugged in TMNT IV. After passing the controller back and forth a few times, I realized that there's not much difference between a 30 year-old mashing the A button and a 3 year-old mashing the A button...

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Originally Posted by Baloo

guess you have trouble putting yourself in the time then. I can go play a game that's 10+ years old and look at the graphics and think "These are amazing!" and "Wow!".

I guess I don't have much of a problem with putting myself in the time period.

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I don't have a problem at all, I can get in the frame of mind no problem after a while, but yeah, I can see why a lot of these people turn a blind eye to old games...

You've just got to get in that pure gameplay mode.

Sounds very cliche but... Gameplay's what counts! ;)

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Originally Posted by tomaitheous

Well, they're gamers - not specifically "retro" gamers. How many kids that had a Genesis or SNES, or hell even before that with an NES/SMS, knew much of anything about the 2600 or old 8bit computers. Here in the states, most likely next to nothing. Couldn't tell the difference between a 2600 and a 5200. But nor did they need to, to be considered a "gamer". But you know, old timer gamers were complaining back then what you/we are complaining right now. It's funny :)

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Hmm, I think the average late '80s/early '90s kid gamer in the US probably would have been more likely to know of the Atari 2600 (even just as "the Atari" -like the NES was "the Nintendo") than they were to know what a Master System was... (not positive, but I think the Atari 7800 might have been more common -sold better- than the SMS in US ->3.7 million but I have no US specific figures for the SMS)

I know this was the case for me, when I was ~10/11, I knew of the old Atari, but had never heard the Master System name. In fact, when my uncle got a used SMS II with an Atari lot he picked up, I though the "II" meant it was the successor to the SMS, and in between that and the Genesis. (with some kind of enhancements, more like the SG-1000/MK.II to SMS/Mk.III comparison in actuality I suppose)

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Originally Posted by gamegenie

meh, all that was accessible to a genesis owner, save states existed in Sega CD games, it was a compact disc, and the Genesis was the first to get the 6-button controller.

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Well, not if you count the SNES L+R buttons, or the PC Engine SFII controller in Japan. (slightly earlier than the MD/Genesis one) Then there's the ColecoVision/Intellivision/5200 with the keypads, but I wouldn't count though specifically.

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Originally Posted by kool kitty89

Then there's the ColecoVision/Intellivision/5200 with the keypads, but I wouldn't count though specifically.

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not unless you plan on calling China with your game controller. "So I kill this bad guy by dialing the Turkish international area code, right?"

Speaking of older games being harder, I've been trying to get through Revenge of Shinobi again for the first time in almost twenty years and it can be pretty brutal, and I even "cheat" by using the unlimited shurikens.

The airplane level with the opening cargo doors that can suck you out had me laughing. Such a thing was normal in old school games, but unheard of now.

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Originally Posted by Gentlegamer

Speaking of older games being harder, I've been trying to get through Revenge of Shinobi again for the first time in almost twenty years and it can be pretty brutal, and I even "cheat" by using the unlimited shurikens.

The airplane level with the opening cargo doors that can suck you out had me laughing. Such a thing was normal in old school games, but unheard of now.

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Hmm, this gives me an idea to maybe sell to the dept of Homeland Security. The next time some hijacker tries to get tough with a boxcutter the flight attendant just hits a button and the doors of the plain just open up and he gets sucked out like Gold Finger. Everyone else assuming they are in their seats with the seat belts buckled should be safe. I guess maybe a few innocent people or kids might get sucked out, but hey if you wanna make an omelet yadda yadda. This would probably work on most terrorists, except maybe ninja terrorists, but chances are if they are ninja the plane and everyone on board is screwed anyway.

Modern games are easier to beat and only take about 3 hours to play to the end. This is why I see so many new games on craigslist less than a week after street date. People have beat the game, found little replay value and are ditching them in a hurry.