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I said I liked in the 16 bit games, getting the speed shoes early, and finishing with them.
Sonic CD is the fastest playing 2D Sonic IMHO. I love how fast it generally is.
But this is how fast Sonic needs to be once you experience how awesome it is to go this fast...
The first video is how a speed freak plays, this video below is how a normal person might play.
(also a good comparison of widescreen vs. full screen, and how full screen gives the better viewing area in this game)
Don't forget about the SMS and GG games, almsot every (if not every) one of those was developed by 3rd parties, some Japanese, soem not iirc. And soem of the 8-bit sonic games are (arguably) the best made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Christuserloeser
Not for Sonic to be slow, but for the game to not be an on-rails, never-stop turbofest. I'm not sure how you played the 16-bit games, but myself, I never did speedruns or just bolted through the level as fast as possible (I only did that for the Adventure games and Unleashed). I liked the smooth, responsive controls, going through loops and twists was cool, but what those games also had was excellent platforming too. Tons upon tons of platforms going higher and higher, lots of secret areas, and the paths were so free-form that it's hard to play the levels the same way twice. Not to mention, if you slowed down, there were plenty of neat enemies with different attacks to fight. It was a mix of both fast speed and classic platform action.Quote:
Originally Posted by PimpUigi
Now, I'm not criticizing Unleashed. On the contrary, I thoroughly enjoyed the Wii version, and the video you posted (along with the ones I just went and watched on Youtube) make the HD versions look absolutely awesome (though not as different from the Wii version as I expected) for high-speed thrills, and they make me want to pick the game up for 360 even though I already have it for Wii. But my personal issue with it is that it's very linear (even with multiple paths, it feels like each one is on rails), you never get to slow down to explore the level at your own free will, and a lot of times it feels as if there's a right and a wrong way to play the level (i.e., hit these buttons in the right order fast to get the good path, otherwise you get the bad path). It suits Unleashed fine, but it's quite a different breed of game from the 16-bit classics. To be honest, I'm not quite sure I could even call Unleashed a platformer, at least not in the classic sense.
So, to sum that up, the new games don't play (IMHO) too much like the old ones, and I'd love to have that feeling I had as a kid of playing Sonic 3 & Knuckles with a brand new game in the series. Sonic Team hasn't come anywhere near that since Sonic Adventure 2 (which still felt very different), and at least Dimps has a lot of experience with Sonic in 2D.
I hope that clears up why some people (or maybe it's just me...) don't want Sonic 4 to play like Rush or even Unleashed.
Sonic 2 is probably closest to Unleashed in the linear, fast-pased aspect. (the main reason 17days likes sonic 2 so much).Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildfire McCloud
persoanlly I spent a lot of ime exploring the levels of most sonic game, but most particularly 3&K. A ton of time doing that int he Adventure games too, especially the overworld in SA1, but a good deal of exploring the alternate routes and secret areas in both the games. (moreso with SA2 for the latter)
Sonic 2 is probably my second favorite 2D Sonic in the speed respect.
(though S3&K is my second favorite 2D Sonic overall...)
Though it has a fair bit of guaranteed to be slow levels IMHO (and Sonic CD has at least one slow act in the underwater level as well)
Wow, Sonic just barely avoided that evil-looking device at 1:07. I wonder what sort of terrible things it could have done to him if he had touched it.Quote:
Originally Posted by 16-bit
Just do a 16 bit version, like Capcom did with Mega Man
I wish they would, I'm sure a majority of the fans would agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by KnightWarrior
DIMPS? Did they make the DS version? God I hated that game. Way too many bottomless pits and hip hop music. I had to stop playing that game and I absolutely regret buying it. I hope whoever made it is cursed with extreme malnutrition forever. That game simply did not deserve to exist. Anyone who bought it is an asshole, especially me! Plus, any company called "DIMPS" cannot be trusted. Who would name their company DIMPS? They are up to no good, I tell you!
The video they are showing of this "Sonic 4" looks pretty bad. The scrolling looks nice, but the graphical design is awful. Better than the new Rocket Knight game, but it still looks really grainy, kind of like the shit fest that was Sonic 3. The colors are also really bad. He rotates maybe once per second when he jumps, he runs very slowly and the spring smacks him straight into the ceiling. The springs are supposed to make you go UP through that. The developers have obviously never played a Sonic game before or they would know that. I hope they find themselves waking up at 3:00am with explosive dysentery.
EDIT: Why does every XBLA game force you to "select your storage" before you begin? Super gay. What more could there to be to select from if only the hard drive is attached?
The game is in alpha stage after all...
Granted my hopes aren't high, but they aren't totally dismal...the Sonic 2 beta had tons of invisible walls and issues like that.
RE: The 3d/new sonics:
The homing attacks and those speed boosts are the worsts things in these games. The homing attacks because they make killing enemies way too automatic and they're basically just an admission that they don't know how to do jumping on enemies in a 3d space. The speed boosts are much more annoying though because Sonic has always been about building up your momentum and being able to just jump to maximum speed with one of those cheapens the experience. You shouldn't need a speed booster to go that fast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Redifer
well the thing is, not sure if the elites do this, but the arcade 360 has 256mb built in storage.
Super peel out and the super spin dash pretty much took out the entire build up momentum kind of thing.
Only Sonic 1 was about building momentum.
I agree about the homing attack, but it's the only way to achieve constantly jumping on enemies at high speed that I can think of.
It looks like it will play like a 3D Sonic with a side perspective. Meh. Also I hope not every stage is a rehash of Sonic 1.
As far as I can tell, Sega of America and Sega of Japan were never independent companies. They were both subsidiaries of Sega Enterprises, Ltd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Christuserloeser
Also I'm not sure if it's correct to characterize STI as having been "at Sega of America". I don't think STI was part of SoA. I think STI was part of Sega, one of the game-producing divisions, and SoA was also part of Sega, handling publishing of software and distribution of hardware for North America. But this is getting into details of their corporate structure, which I'm not really sure about, and is kind of irrelevant.
I called this way back in the original thread. I'm still hoping they'll fix this stuff though. The fluidity and responsiveness of the controls are what made the Genesis Sonic games great. I looked up footage for the Sonic Advance games and watched a video of Sonic Advance 3. The thing that throws me off is the level design, everything looks so indistinguishable. It's like you could take the last part of the level and put it at the beginning and no one would be able to tell the difference. There just doesn't seem to be a real sense of progression or depth.
Just to nitpick a little, in that trailer of Sonic 4, when it shows Sonic from Sonic 2... I don't think that really is Sonic from Sonic 2. Look at his feet animation -- they have a spiral inside of his circle of feet. I really don't think Sonic had that spiral in Sonic 2 iirc. The only game I can think of with that spiral is the awesome hack Sonic Megamix. (I'm not at home so I can't check all the old Sonic games, however.)
Anyways Sonic 4 will probably be better than all the 3D bullshit, but still, my hopes are slowly crashing. Sonic still looks green-eyed, lanky, and ridiculous. He can't even run or spin like in the 16-bit games. And the trailer only shows a rehashed Green Hill Zone / Emerald Hill Zone...
At the very least I hope the game has the option to play with the classic Sonic. Why not try to please fans for once and have the choice of playing as Sonic from Sonic 1 / Sonic CD, Sonic 2, Sonic 3&K, or the awful modern Sonic! Jeez, he looks terrible even in the title screen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV64e_lnoWA
That's the leaked footage for anyone who wants to watch it, it's not too hard to find but there are already a few fake videos so that should save a bit of time.
I don't entirely like the spin dash either but I know that at this point sega would never remove it.Quote:
Originally Posted by PimpUigi
To really please fans, they also could simply make the spin dash optional. Same for the peel-out and homing attack. Sonic Megamix had options like this...Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffy2k316
Yeah it will be 3D rendered, but I still expect Sonic Megamix to destroy "Sonic 4," at least for us old-timers who love the classic 16-bit games, and hate most (or all) of the 3D games. So... FAIL b/c it won't appeal to the aging bitter fan base that it's supposed to.
In that "leaked footage," WTF is that trail of smoke behind Sonic for??? Here we go re-inventing the wheel again. Just like the past 16 yrs.
:(Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Redifer
I like the art design in Sonic 3... Sure it's rather different than the previosu games, but I find it rather refreshing. Maybe I'm biassed due to it being the first one I played much. (on PC, though I think I played sonic CD on PC earlier)
Honestly though, from the video it has more of a 3D blast look to it in some reapects. (almost a fusion of some of the art design from sonic 1/2, 3, S&K, and 3D blast)
Hmm, the sonic 1 sprite looks even more off, the running animation is really weird, like he's skipping or something. And doesn't megamix use the sonic advance sprite?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecco
The character design vaires pretty broadly throughout the 3D games, STH06 being the most extreme (and worst), Unleashed went back more towards the older stuff, or at lteast the DC games. Secret rings seems to actually be a bit closer to the old sonic as well, the art/character design is one of the things I do like about that game. (gameplay is horrible) In fact, I think sonic resembles the "old" sonic more in Secret Rings than even the DC sonic games, or maybe he resembles the DiC incarnation a bit more. ;) (especially soem of the still immages/drawings durring the cut scenes)Quote:
Anyways Sonic 4 will probably be better than all the 3D bullshit, but still, my hopes are slowly crashing. Sonic still looks green-eyed, lanky, and ridiculous. He can't even run or spin like in the 16-bit games. And the trailer only shows a rehashed Green Hill Zone / Emerald Hill Zone...
I don't mind soem fo the modern incarnations in general, the 06 one was definitely bad though.Quote:
At the very least I hope the game has the option to play with the classic Sonic. Why not try to please fans for once and have the choice of playing as Sonic from Sonic 1 / Sonic CD, Sonic 2, Sonic 3&K, or the awful modern Sonic! Jeez, he looks terrible even in the title screen.
Hmm, it looks mostly 2D to me, at least for the backgrounds with some 3D objects in the foreground and 3D enemies. (and sonic of course)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecco
I prefer the Sonic 3 art direction the most.
I started with Sonic 1, got Sonic 2, then 3, then Knuckles, and then finally ended with Sonic CD.
I love most of Sonic CD, but Sonic CD would have been much better if it had just had the Sonic 3 sprite, with Super Peel Out.
And wow, if it had playable Tails in it, and the bosses took more than three hits to kill, and didn't fall apart to make themselves easy...Sonic CD would have been 100% perfect, instead of just close to perfect.
I'm a Sonic CD nut...aren't I?
I must just love that game too much.
: (
From a SEGA employee
Quote:
Hi everyone,
After a listing on the official Xbox marketplace went up earlier this week, a lot of you have been asking us about who's developing Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I. Some of you even called me out specifically asking for an answer - and today, I'm happy to say that we can provide you with the details you want.
So, is it just Dimps? Just Sonic Team? The answer is a bit of both:
Yes, Dimps is working on the game. But there's actually more to it than just that: at the same time, we also have members of Sonic Team, including the original senior level designer from Sonic 3 & Knuckles on the SEGA Genesis working alongside them. It is most definitely a partnership, and the result of this teamwork is something many of us are excited for.
So, as requested - there you have it!
Its Awesome that someone is working on the level design from the 16-bit era
Removed from a copyright claim by SoA... =(Quote:
Originally Posted by JRedmond3
Why do we have two threads about this game?
Merging powers activate!
Well I'm unfamiliar w/ Sonic Advance, but Sonic Megamix uses mostly sprites from Sonic 1 / Sonic CD. Also Sonic has the spindash from Sonic 2. This game is just fantastic for anyone who hasn't played it. Also a homing attack -- the only 16-bit Sonic game w/ homing attack afaik!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
Ha yeah I know the gameplay is 2D. I was just referring to the 3D rendered sprites, objects, landscapes, etc. that they're using to make the game look modern and cutting-edge... And also to copy the formula of that new Mario game on Wii (2D gameplay w/ 3D rendered everything)...Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
Define 'slow'. I wouldn't want Sonic himself to be 'slow', as speed is his defining character trait.Quote:
Originally Posted by PimpUigi
The level design, on the other hand, can sometimes result in 'slow' gameplay, and it's a pretty significant conundrum for any level artist. You can listen to the spergin' Sonic fans and create a level based around going super-duper fast like Sonic Unleashed's Sonic levels - but that results in a level that's basically the Sonic 2 special stage but at a higher resolution and a 'YOU WIN' banner at the end. You have to design something that makes sense - for example, areas you can travel in are of an appropriate scale compared to the player character, but also you have to take into account player choice. Because what if I've been speeding through the level until this particular point and then I'm going to slow down and look at the scenery. So you're having to mess with player expectations against what you can reasonably pull off with the resources you're given - i.e. budget, time, feasability. Which is why there were more Night levels than Day levels. Cliche I can't work into a correct sentence: you know the cliche about film? five pages of script equals one minute of Things Happening On Screen? Yeah, something like that.
Generally criticised by reviewers for being 'too short'.
OR
you listen to the 'story!' fans and create an enclosed level space where you start at a certain point, and search the level for the exit while being subtly guided by the terrain. Good example: Scrap Brain Zone. Bad example: Marble Garden Zone (those fucking spinning, hovering platform things). This is a 'slow' level as you can't simply hold Right and mash the B button every few seconds, but you can control pretty much every aspect of what the player sees and does.
Generally criticised by reviewers for being 'slow'. Sorry.
mega man nine was not 16-bit. it looked like a 8-bit game, it sounded like a 8-bit game, it even played like an 8-bit mega man game, but it was not an 8-bit game underneath.Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWarrior
The one where when you duck, Sonic moves a pixel in one direction because his sprite's misaligned? :PQuote:
Originally Posted by PimpUigi
I think you're talking about Sonic Unleashed on the Wii.
On the 360/PS3 versions, day stages are hard, for today's generation of player anyway.
And there are quite a few more day levels than night levels in the 360/PS3 version.
There's either a 3 to 2 ratio, or 2 to 1 ratio, depending on the country you're playing in.
Unlike in the Wii, where it seems like there's always three night levels, to one real day level, and then the Wii just gets "beat the level" with a certain time, or ring amount as a requirement for extra day levels, whereas the 360/PS3 got real act 2's, and act 3's, and town mission were saved for the time/ring/enemy count variety.
Sonic 1 certainly does feel slow a lot of the time.
Sonic Unleashed 360/PS3 managers to keep things fast, yet hard, yet there's still player choice.
Even though Sonic Unleashed's levels do feel like a tunnel you can't turn around in.
OK, I think it was mn12bird's video that gave me the idea about sonci advance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgvw1hze_IQ but someone in the comments already corrected that. Looking at sonic advance's sprites, it's pretty obvious they're not the ones used. (I recognized the sonic 1/CD look, but I hadn't compared sonci advance before)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecco
Well, in that leaked footage, it looks like a lot of the games is rendered in traditional 2D, with limited polygon models for some foreground portions, enemies, objects, and Sonic.Quote:
Ha yeah I know the gameplay is 2D. I was just referring to the 3D rendered sprites, objects, landscapes, etc. that they're using to make the game look modern and cutting-edge... And also to copy the formula of that new Mario game on Wii (2D gameplay w/ 3D rendered everything)...
Well, after watching the leaked footage, (which indeed isn't too hard to find outside youtube), I couldn't help but wonder what system it was playing on...
...I'm still wondering...
that leaked footage was horrible , i hope sonic doesn't jump like that
Whats with the dust trailing behind him?
I did see a little bit of what looked like the XBox 360 interface-screen-menu thing when the player was loading a save or whatever and I definitely saw a Green A button and Red B button selection thingy as well. The leaked footage was either the XBox 360 or some magical new Sega console that has buttons like that of an XBox 360.Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSciFi
I watched the leaked footage and man is Sonic slow as hell.
http://www.sonicstadium.org/news/son...essions-inside
So it does play like Sonic Rush and Advance 2. At least I didn't set my hopes high for this.
I liked Sonic Rush and Advance 2. So far, this looks worse IMO.
I was worried that I'd die and not see another Casino level in a Sonic game so that's a relief.
It better not have that shitty speed boost button that rush had
The Sonic Cycle seems to still hold true, now hearing it's pretty much Sonic Advance 4 with a bad jump and spindash. Every damn part of the Sonic Cycle is true! We claim we will never be fooled again, but the next game always brings our hopes up... It's almost hilarious how real the Sonic Cycle is! :D
winQuote:
Originally Posted by tomaitheous
oh, and the footage is back up on youtube:
Don't forget the 360 sound FX for that part too. Anyone who has a 360 would definitely recognize that menu sound.Quote:
Originally Posted by NavesRegge