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For me Wii there is a challenge to overcome with motion controls broken or not..which i like.
Example. i know i can play Mario kart with the nunchuck and be kick ass..where as if I use the wheel its very hard to beat races on 150cc. and it is sad when you are using the nunchuck and some kid on Multi blows you away using the wheel with gold status....That is why I am learning to use the wheel more, but as every one knows lighting needs to be perfect when using motion controls.
I disagree with that statement completely. Controls should always be moving toward telepathic levels, and if the Wii makes it MORE difficult, that is a failure. For instance, when it comes to control pads, if I can't do a proper fireball on SF II at least ~9/10 times, I won't use that controller and IMO it is a shitty controller (which automatically rules out anything with a cross style d-pad). Therefore, if I want to do a basic action and it means waving the wand in some crazy way vs. just pushing a button, I find that detracting from the experience. I don't want to loosen the lugnuts on my own race car, if you get the analogy.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxHound
People, you are basically applauding Nintendo for being lazy.
for the last time, this is why I don't like the Wii:
-the controls are not what were promised at the start (motion plus may fix that)
-the prices are much more than they should be all around (games, accessories, etc.)
-the few good games on the system NEVER go down in price on the used market because...they are the few good games and therefore never go down in popularity. I'll be amazed if Mario Galaxy and Smash Bros. Brawl ever drop below $20 on the used market, especially in complete condition.
-when I gave up and stopped following the Wii, online play was basically non-existant.
-many games rely too heavily on gimmicks rather than gameplay, making finding good games like finding shit in a coal mine, you basically have to step on it to know it's there.
There are so many great possibilities with the Wii and developers just keep dumping shit and people keep supporting it. What I find the funniest is how people keep insisting the best way to play the games is with the GC or Classic controller. Well if that's the case, why bother? The whole point of the system was motion controls, but so few good games actually utilize that.
oh, and IP, the reason for buying a $100 force feedback wheel is that...it's like actually driving a car. I significantly improved my real life autocross times by playing Enthusia with my Logitech wheel. If you're going to call me dumb or a kid for using a force feedback steering wheel, then you might as well call everyone a dumb kid for playing video games at all, because a close simulation of auto racing is about as least geeky as video games get. I mean, shit, they could use this for driver's ed for crying out loud.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes
Alright, fair's fair. I just downloaded Crash for $3 (because I love Crash's console kart racers - moreso probably than any Mario Kart after the SNES original). I also got RE4 for $7, which I'm sure will be a mistake, but I love the game and it's worth it to me to try yet another version.
The Brothers in Arms game was actually ported to the DS a while ago, and I got it used for $7, I think. I've played it a little bit, and yes it's clunky, but I expected that.
The problem is, that I'm sure it plays worse on the iPhone, for a few reasons (which honesty apply to ALL "real" games on the iPhone.)
1. YOUR BIG, FAT, STUPID FINGERS: Any game that requires you to point at the screen and aim is going to cause problems, regardless of how sensitive and "smart" the touch-screen is. All the sensitivity in the world won't do you a damn bit of good if you can't actually see what you're aiming at because your hand is in the way. This was one of the problems I had with the RE: Degeneration demo I downloaded, as well as one I expect to enounter in RE4, and one I expect is a detrimental factor in Brothers in Arms.
2. Weird refresh/frame rate: I'll admit it - the iPhone's graphics are more eye-pleasing than the DS's. But one thing I've really noticed is how *off* the framerate looks on any game I've played that doesn't take place on a single screen (particularly the overrated Hero of Sparta). From what little I've already played of Crash Racing, it's the same thing: a steadily flickering framerate. Mario Kart DS runs perfectly smoothly.
3. No buttons: it's a tired argument, so I'll make this brief. The "virtual analog sticks" that developers put in these games are just the spit and bubble gum used to cram complicated games on a fundamentally-flawed gaming system. Does it get the job done? Yeah. Is it even remotely ideal? Not in the slightest, which is why the iPhone will always be inferior to the sad, pathetically underpowered and overpriced Nintendo DS.
I'm going to be fair, though. These are just problems I've had in the past with the more complicated tites in the iPhone's game library, and expect to have with the games I just downloaded.
You can use the argument that it "doesn't matter" if the games are so cheap, but wouldn't you be willing to pay more for the same games that don't have these issues? Isn't that basically what your argument against the Wii is centered around?
*watches vid*
After 12 pages, I'm still not sure if 17days likes Nintendo's current system or not.
Maybe someone could ask him in a PM.
I like turtles
Yeah, and he mentioned using the nunchuck for mario kart... The only way I'd even consider playing (except maybe once to just try it out) would be a GC controller... I really wish Nintendo had continued with that thing, they were on the right track IMO. (if they could somehow have improved the d-pad and c-stick, maybe added a left z button, that would have been great)Quote:
Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes
Yeah, that's probably the best summary, I mean motion controlls do get new consumers in, but if they offered alternate controls for most things even that wouldn't be an issue. (at least they did that with games like Brawl and Mario Kart) And for Sega seems to have been good about doing this as well. (even on the sonic games, which kind of surprised me, definitely much more playable using a real gamepad)Quote:
People, you are basically applauding Nintendo for being lazy.
for the last time, this is why I don't like the Wii:
-the controls are not what were promised at the start (motion plus may fix that)
-the prices are much more than they should be all around (games, accessories, etc.)
-the few good games on the system NEVER go down in price on the used market because...they are the few good games and therefore never go down in popularity. I'll be amazed if Mario Galaxy and Smash Bros. Brawl ever drop below $20 on the used market, especially in complete condition.
-when I gave up and stopped following the Wii, online play was basically non-existant.
-many games rely too heavily on gimmicks rather than gameplay, making finding good games like finding shit in a coal mine, you basically have to step on it to know it's there.
There are so many great possibilities with the Wii and developers just keep dumping shit and people keep supporting it. What I find the funniest is how people keep insisting the best way to play the games is with the GC or Classic controller. Well if that's the case, why bother? The whole point of the system was motion controls, but so few good games actually utilize that.
Honestly, I think the pointer is th emore important aspect of the machine, though in my experience it's rather impricise, which is odd as I've seen videos of people with very stable cursors, on ours they're always a bit jittery. (plus you need to calibrate it for if you're sitting or standing, or you could physically move the sensor bar I suppose)
Yeah, the simulation aspect. Although I do prefer a flight stick (and possibly rudder peddals) to an analog stick gamepad (lest alone d-pad) for many flight games, but arcade style railshooters would not be included in this, and I can play reasonably well with a gamepad even for hardcore flight sims. (well, as log as there's analog triggers for rudder control and a slider for throttle -and preferably enough buttons for most used actions)Quote:
oh, and IP, the reason for buying a $100 force feedback wheel is that...it's like actually driving a car. I significantly improved my real life autocross times by playing Enthusia with my Logitech wheel. If you're going to call me dumb or a kid for using a force feedback steering wheel, then you might as well call everyone a dumb kid for playing video games at all, because a close simulation of auto racing is about as least geeky as video games get. I mean, shit, they could use this for driver's ed for crying out loud.
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/14/wtf cat.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
Seriously?
-The shoulder buttons have lips to block movement.
-The Z button is tiny and unresponsive
-The A button is too big, the B button is too small. The X&Y Kidney buttons are like a leftover half-finished stupid idea to surround 'A'
-The C 'stick' is tiny, & lacks any concave support for human thumbs.
-The D Pad cross not only brings 'legacy Nintendo stiffness', but shrinks it to the point of madness.
The only thing 'good' about the GC controller was the start button, & the octogon hole around the joystick for maintaining a direction.
Seriously, it's as if they got the message that the N64 controls were a bag of shit by design, threw the concept in reverse, and landed in Virtual Boy territory.
/threadQuote:
Originally Posted by Dirt Ball Gamer
I have a few gripes with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster
I think the shoulder buttons are perfectly fine, I've never ever had problems with them.
The Z button is also very easy to use, if this is something right handed people have a problem with, yell at me.
I have nothing wrong with the button placement, besides, there is a reason the button is so big, it is suppose to be your main button.
Yeah... I concede to that one, it is too small and un-useful.
The D-Pad is also horrible, hands down.
The Z button was flat closer to the center, it was as if you needed to rest your inner knuckle over it to push down on it, the result was a cheap feeling tiny button you needed to push at an akward angle without using your fingers in a normal way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flygon
The R button hindered this further, denying quick movement with it's saddled lip on the top. It's usable, but still stupid and a step backward for usability. "God forbid they take a page from Sony's book when it comes to having multiple shoulder buttons."
The button could have been round and the same size as the X-Y buttons, and the B button could have been bigger or a Kidney shape as well, emphasizing the centralized A button further. There's a ton of wasted space with the A button's size.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flygon
Nintendo got it right to go back to the '2 handled' controller, but they mangled the concept with needless design choices.
I find the layout very comfortable, comments on the z-button, d-pad, and c-stick I more or less agree with. (though my main complaint with the c-stick isn't the tip, but the rather limited resistance and rage of motion) The important thing is that the analog stick is great, taking the better aspects of the N64 stick and removing the flaws (keeping th eslightly rounded, ridged design and 8octagonal rim, but adding the soft rubber coating and better wearresistance)Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster
I love the curvy shape of the triggers, plus the click at the stop, in particular the lip that prevents pinching. (a problem with the X-box controller S, the duke wasn't bad though)
The biggest point is how it fits in your hands, not perfect, but great for a wide range of hand sizes. I have ~10" hand span, enough to find the Xbox Duke comfortable, and the later ones crap. (too small, and inconvient, and pinchy triggers) The curvature of the GC controller fits very well despite the small size, compared to the N64 controller wich has too short handels. (and the 3rd party Super Pad isn't any better, chunkier yeah, but the handles are truncated)
I actually liked the N64 controller a good bit, more than the SNES controller at least, except when some stupid designer set the controller layout to use more than 2 prongs woth of buttons. (it was designed to use either the analog stick+Z or d-pad +L, not both simultaneously) In particular A and B are extremely comfotable to mash (did that a lot in Paper Mario), that's one thing the GC controller wasn't quite as good with. Perhaps they should have kept th eN64 a/b buttons and added smaller X/Y buttons to the upper right (similar to where the c-buttons were) in a semi diamond pattern.
I've never liked the Sony pads, either analog or digital, I do like the layout more or less, but not them specifically. (the thrustmaster firestorm for example)
The Saturn 3D pad is probably better than any of these though, maybe not as good as the later Saturn controller for 2D stuff, but more versitile, maybe it could have used analog triggers, but other than that, would have been the choice for the DC IMO. (though the DC controller was OK)
My personal favorite is the Gravix Xterminator gamepad, a real jack of all trades, too bad its discontinued and I've only got the older PC gameport version... (and there are no compatible USB adaptors as of yet) :(
I think the GC controller is comfortable (far more than the N64 pad), but the GC had one of the goofiest button layouts known to man.
It's like they randomly placed buttons and nubs and said "ehh...good enough."
When did I get even close to saying that? I was using your logic against you, based on your criticisms against the Wii Steering Wheel. You completely misread me.Quote:
Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes