Say NO to Project Natal!

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Originally Posted by Rusty Venture

I think the GC controller is comfortable (far more than the N64 pad), but the GC had one of the goofiest button layouts known to man.

It's like they randomly placed buttons and nubs and said "ehh...good enough."

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Yeah, almost like they did it just to be different from Sony's controller. (even though the SNES was the first to have the L+R and diamond 3-button configuration, though I personally prefer the 6-button layout, particularly on the saturn, and to some extent the N64's A/B+C buttons, but only for some things) A and B on th eN64 were really great for mashing and rapid tapping without getting sore though, no so much fot he GC, or most others for that batter. (except some Sega controllers, for the similar reason of the large buttons, though th eearly Model 1 3-button pads are a bit stiff) I think the PSX buttons are worst for this though, maybe the Xbox too, SNES had small buttons as well, but they were realtively soft (low resistance) so it wasn't as tiring. (though I don't find that controller particularly comfortable, less so than the old NES pads when trying to utilize L and R at least, the D-pad was a decided improvement over the NES)

I think the SNES d-pad is kinda sloppy, but that might be my controller.

My asciiPad-SG is still as awesome as it was in 1993.

So what is this thread about?

If it helps 360 outsell Wii I say bring it on.

I am all about marketshare/sells/dominance which is still the nature of this industry.

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Originally Posted by gamegenie

If it helps 360 outsell Wii I say bring it on.

I am all about marketshare/sells/dominance which is still the nature of this industry.

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I'm more about 'Quality Games', I couldn't care less how many consoles someone sells, or their market share. I didn't care about Sega either, they had quality software & hardware, and the fanboy-sales-dominance mentality is what inflated the PS2 beyond any and all expectations, killing the Dreamcast even if Sega 'gave them' away.

Without something radical like Natal taking off, the only reason the 360 could outsell the Wii at this point would be if Microsoft gave away free games & retail vouchers (instead of repairs) for replacement consoles, when they inevitably die. Just to play with the numbers. Yes, That would normally be sarcasm and it sickens me to think it's entirely possible. :p

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Originally Posted by Rounin

So what is this thread about?

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It is unknown at this point.

I call for a truce. It's obvious that I see value in motion controls and 17days doesn't. Except on the iPhone. I think we've come to a standstill.

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Originally Posted by InternalPrimate

I call for a truce.

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I call for a War!

The best controllers IMO are the ones that when you're really into a game you don't even know are there. When I'm playing Street Fighter on a good joystick it feels like I'm thinking shoryuken and it's happening on the screen. I've never got that feeling with any kind of motion control. It might be possible as technology progresses but it's going to have to progress A LOT.

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Originally Posted by Rusty Venture

I think the SNES d-pad is kinda sloppy, but that might be my controller.

My asciiPad-SG is still as awesome as it was in 1993.

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Yeah it's kind of loose, and a bit low (enough to hit the rim with your thumb, "bottoming out" so to speak), though this may be from wear. The N64 controllers seem better in this respect, not sure if the d-pads were modified or if its due to the lack of use/wear. I think I like the Genesis d-pad better, even the stiff one on the original red letter 3-button. (which is the ony kind I own)

And is this the controller you're talking about:
http://www.sega-16.com/Features/Gene...%206%20pad.gif

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Originally Posted by InternalPrimate

I call for a truce. It's obvious that I see value in motion controls and 17days doesn't. Except on the iPhone. I think we've come to a standstill.

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Nah, I think he appreciates them for what they are, but is put off by the hype, overuse/misuse of said controlls, "shovelware" (including the excess of "casual" games as well as sloppy ports with gimicky controlls), and the high prices of few more popular "good" games, as well as those of WiiWare and VC.

He's an old time Nintendo fan, got burned with the N64. Luckily I'm younger, and we got our N64 in christmass of '99, so didn't really ever have issues with limited game availability and such, that and I was 10, with a ~5 year old brother, so the "kiddie" games were attractive. Wasn;t dissapointed by GameCube either, got it christmas of '04 iirc, so a good deal of games already, and we found plentty of satisfactory games. (plus we've always been fairly big on PC gaming, so that kind of compensated for certain laspects of the consoles, oddly enough we got PC versions of some N64 games, like Rogue Squadron, rather than the cart)
The wii hasn't been particularly promising so far, Brawl was nice, SM Galaxy was OK (I prefer 64 and Sunshine personally), Wiiplay/sports is OK for some family/party games, but we end up playing GC games on the Wii more often than probably anything else. (well, web browsing occasonally, and a couple WiiWare games, and a tiny bit of VC)

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Originally Posted by gamegenie

If it helps 360 outsell Wii I say bring it on.

I am all about marketshare/sells/dominance which is still the nature of this industry.

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I wish Microsoft would get run out of the market altogether TBH. Nevermind they've never made a single red cent off of any XBOX (it was mentioned on some show on one of those news networks that they have lost money every quarter on the XBOX), I just don't like how they do business. They make the system cheap out of the gate to be appealing, but then you soon realize you're spending the cost of the system in basic accessories and online subscriptions to get up and going. $100 for a Wi-Fi adapter? fuck you Microsoft. The PS3 is UNBELIEVABLY off-the-shelf mod friendly for a product that isn't put out by a chinese bootleg company. It accepts USB controllers, any laptop drive (SATA?), comes with Wi-Fi, free online play, etc. etc. Once you get past the high price (now not bad at all at $300), you're basically done. Say what you will, but of all of the major game companies still going, Sony is by far the least deceptive in terms of marketing or features IMO. Hopefully the new marketing strategy with less of the "WTF? why is the PS3 floating in a room by itself?" and more of the "hey look! it does everything for $300!" will grab some more fans.

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Originally Posted by kool kitty89

Nah, I think he appreciates them for what they are, but is put off by the hype, overuse/misuse of said controlls, "shovelware" (including the excess of "casual" games as well as sloppy ports with gimicky controlls), and the high prices of few more popular "good" games, as well as those of WiiWare and VC.

He's an old time Nintendo fan, got burned with the N64. Luckily I'm younger, and we got our N64 in christmass of '99, so didn't really ever have issues with limited game availability and such, that and I was 10, with a ~5 year old brother, so the "kiddie" games were attractive. Wasn;t dissapointed by GameCube either, got it christmas of '04 iirc, so a good deal of games already, and we found plentty of satisfactory games. (plus we've always been fairly big on PC gaming, so that kind of compensated for certain laspects of the consoles, oddly enough we got PC versions of some N64 games, like Rogue Squadron, rather than the cart)
The wii hasn't been particularly promising so far, Brawl was nice, SM Galaxy was OK (I prefer 64 and Sunshine personally), Wiiplay/sports is OK for some family/party games, but we end up playing GC games on the Wii more often than probably anything else. (well, web browsing occasonally, and a couple WiiWare games, and a tiny bit of VC)

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exactly.

It's not that I hate motion controls, I just want motion controls and work and actually make sense (if you've played Skate It, you'll see why I have come to hate the Wii). I find my Psyclone Tilt Sense PS2 controller is far more usable than the Wiimote.

And all I'm trying to say, 17days, is that in some cases, the promise of motion control adding to the experience has been delivered. Tiger Woods 10 is a perfect example of this. You point to Skate It as an example of why you hate the Wii, yet is that rational? I don't point to Superman 64 and say "that's why the N64 controller sucks!"

Maybe your anger/disappointment should be directed towards the countless developers who put in little effort and time in making Wii games.

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Originally Posted by InternalPrimate

And all I'm trying to say, 17days, is that in some cases, the promise of motion control adding to the experience has been delivered. Tiger Woods 10 is a perfect example of this. You point to Skate It as an example of why you hate the Wii, yet is that rational? I don't point to Superman 64 and say "that's why the N64 controller sucks!"

Maybe your anger/disappointment should be directed towards the countless developers who put in little effort and time in making Wii games.

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it certainly is, without a doubt. Maybe the Wiimote is the perfect golf club simulator, but think about that for a second: who the hell really wants a golf simulator? I know someone is going to say "I do!" well congratulations, I don't. I don't want to play REAL golf, why would I want to play fake golf? I still have yet to see a proper light saber game, why the hell haven't they done that yet? I know Wii Sports Resort has something similar, but it's not a licensed Star Wars game dammit. I just can't help but think Six Axis was a better idea than a motion sensing baton.

It's less about the waggling, and more about 'Pointing' that makes it more revolutionary from a gameplay perspective.

Natal will lack this feature if the video's are to believed, unless they have some fancy wifi-360-laser pointer accessory. Either way, by the time Natal comes out, the next gen Nintendo will likely be unveiled & hyped, so who really cares?

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Originally Posted by kool kitty89

And is this the controller you're talking about:
http://www.sega-16.com/Features/Gene...%206%20pad.gif

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Nope, that's the 6-button version. The "SG" just has 3 buttons.

I have the SG-6 and the d-pad is kinda sloppy on it