Must all NES and SMS games be programmed in assembly language?

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Originally Posted by tomaitheous

Yeah, definitely wouldn't use it for MD. Would be fun to mess around with for a SMS project. Actually, if this compiler is efficient enough - I'm hoping this brings some attention to the SMS coding scene. SMS graphics are pretty easy to work with and easier (than say NES), and pairing that with this compiler would be a great asset for the SMS dev scene. Here's hoping ;)

On a side note, I keep forgetting that I can do SMS dev with my Genesis consoles. I'd want to do an SMS dev project sometime in the near future.

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Actually, with the NeoMyth, you really CAN use your MD for SMS development now. :D

Maybe we can put together a devkit with zasm for the assembler, z88dk for the compiler, and some library functions like Stef's, but geared toward the SMS.

I need a good tech file for the SMS - beyond having the Z80, a VDP similar to the MD, and the PSG (and a different FM chip on the Jap model), I really don't have much of an idea how the SMS operates.

EDIT: Found lots of good docs over at SMSPower. I noticed TmEE is over there as well. :D

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Originally Posted by tomaitheous

Funny thing, just saw this posted over at SMSpower -> http://www.z88dk.org/forum/ . C compiler for Z80.



Hehe. The joys of annoying bugs squashing. Once you've got it working though, building completely new engines/routines that still have similar/related requirements, becomes much easier. I.e improving/expanding upon it or modifying the requirements, etc.

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I found my glitch. I threw the direct page into a place that overlaps the middle of the collision map. I changed the direct page location and now it works properly.

Only issue now is that it uses 8-bit x/y coordinates, and if I want side scrolling in my game I need to reprogram it with 16-bit x/y coordinates, and it doesn't help that Nintendo interweved the 9th x coordinate bits with the size bits, instead of using flat out 16-bit x/y coordinate registers like the Genesis has.

To be completely honest, I don't really like programming. In fact I hate it. The only reason why I keep doing it, is so people will respect and beleive me.

The current status of homebrewing websites like smwcentral.net is horrible. The majority of people on that website think they are the "uber" programmers and they don't share their code library with anyone, and they'll call you an idiot if you ask them.

Then there is smkdan, who everyone keeps beleiving is the god of all snes programming knowledge, when all of the assembly code I've seen him post is disgustingly redundant and slow.

For example smkdan says if you want to move 32-bit data from $0000,x to $0000,y, you do this

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lda $0000,x
sta $0000,y
inx
inx
iny
iny
lda $0000,x
sta $0000,y

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when I know that you can just do

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lda $0000,x
sta $0000,y
lda $0002,x
sta $0002,y

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and save 8 cycles, but when I correct his mistakes, everybody asks me to "prove" myself, but they blindly accepts smkdan's code as the truth eventhough I never see him making some kind of stupid demo for everything he says.

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Originally Posted by dragonboy

To be completely honest, I don't really like programming. In fact I hate it. The only reason why I keep doing it, is so people will respect and beleive me.

The current status of homebrewing websites like smwcentral.net is horrible. The majority of people on that website think they are the "uber" programmers and they don't share their code library with anyone, and they'll call you an idiot if you ask them.

Then there is smkdan, who everyone keeps beleiving is the god of all snes programming knowledge, when all of the assembly code I've seen him post is disgustingly redundant and slow.

For example smkdan says if you want to move 32-bit data from $0000,x to $0000,y, you do this

when I know that you can just do

and save 8 cycles, but when I correct his mistakes, everybody asks me to "prove" myself, but they blindly accepts smkdan's code as the truth eventhough I never see him making some kind of stupid demo for everything he says.

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Easier way to earn respect:
Don't default to 'bitching' about other people or their work when frustrated. ;)

When you mean "nice" do you mean sucking up with the common consensus?

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Originally Posted by dragonboy

When you mean "nice" do you mean sucking up with the common consensus?

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No, but by the same token, when someone does retarded coding, don't say "That's retarded! Here's how someone who ISN'T a retard would do it!"

Until you get a better rep than the people currently posting code, you have to use tact. Say something like "This might be better... can someone else try it and post their findings?"

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Originally Posted by dragonboy

To be completely honest, I don't really like programming. In fact I hate it. The only reason why I keep doing it, is so people will respect and believe me.

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Hehe, you have weird motivations for coding then :) There's a lot of code I do that only a few people see. It's not really for the public. It's not a big deal. Actually, I don't really like to post much of it - because it can be misinterpreted as bragging. It's different when coders get together and look/talk about such things, it doesn't feel like that. It's more of a general excitement and sharing of code/techniques. The possibilities.

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The current status of homebrewing websites like smwcentral.net is horrible. The majority of people on that website think they are the "uber" programmers and they don't share their code library with anyone, and they'll call you an idiot if you ask them.

Then there is smkdan, who everyone keeps beleiving is the god of all snes programming knowledge, when all of the assembly code I've seen him post is disgustingly redundant and slow.

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Never heard of the guy. There two types of (console) programmers that I tend to see. Those who live on low level (and high level too) optimization (I'm in that category) and those who care more about the game/logic/etc aspect of programming. They might be an expert on interfacing and handling sound/video/etc parts of the hardware, but are not specifically interested in optimizing every little thing. They are more for flexibility than speed. Be it the higher and lower level of the design stages. Maybe he's in the latter bracket.

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For example smkdan says if you want to move 32-bit data from $0000,x to $0000,y, you do this

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Or use a block transfer instruction/opcode of the '816? To be honest, moving around large chucks of data is so rare in the stuff I do. Moving data to vram is where it's at, but even then.

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When you mean "nice" do you mean sucking up with the common consensus?

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What Chilly Willy said. Even if you have the rep and know how, you don't want to come off as an asshole like the guys you're complaining about now. One thing to remember; arrogance is rarely, if ever, justifiable. And sadly much too often, seemly tolerated in the world. Is it just me or is it more so in the academic community.

Don't blockmoves use 7 cycles per byte? Wouldn't that be 14 cycles per 16-bit word?

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Originally Posted by dragonboy

Don't blockmoves use 7 cycles per byte? Wouldn't that be 14 cycles per 16-bit word?

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Ohh.. Are you talking about a single 32bit move, or moving a block of data that is 32bit elements in size?

Also, got a link to the thread?

Another reason why I feel forced to program is the way the Snes is portrayed on the internet.

I was a little kid back then. I use to go to the video store, there were always hundreds of Super Nintendo games lying on the shelves, from all different companies. Naturally I liked Nintendo 1st party games the best, but there were a wide variety of obscure games that I played that I liked.

Nowadays you go lookup Super Nintendo online and what shows up? Overrated "classics" that are now popular just because they were from popular companies such as Capcom and Konami.

What I've been noticing for a long time is, only the popular companies such as Capcom had serious issues with slowdowns in their games. There were tons of overlooked companies that never even had problems with slowdown right from the getgo, but never get any media coverage. However when I was little, I couldn't read the company logo on the cover, so I played tons of obscure games that had not even the slightest bit of slowdown.

For instance, I've rediscovered a long forgotten company called Natsume, that has some extremely underrated games. Pocky and Rocky is a perfect example of the kind of games I used to play as a little kid, and in that game sometimes there are tons of little guys running around and yet it barely ever has slowdown (the very few times it does, it's about 90% the normal speed), unlike similar games from Capcom and Konami. I think Natsume could've did Gunstar Heroes on the Snes if they tried to.