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Then why can't we separate them and just get NA. That's all I personally care about, if that. Combining North America with South American makes about as much sense as combining Russia's numbers with China's numbers.Quote:
23.35 is N&S America. Not simply North America.
Yeah but Russia and China's numbers are combined...Other
If only Nintendo had done what we all would have liked, and released their numbers by proper region.
NA
EU
JP
Other
No...
They had to
Americas
Other
JP
Lamers.
Here's some additional Genesis sales numbers that I stumbled across:
1989-1990: 1.2 million |Source|
1991: 1.6 million |Source|
1992: 4.5 million |Source|
1993: 5.5 million |Source|
1994: 4.0+ million |Source|
Do you still have it?Quote:
Originally Posted by PimpUigi
True for North America, at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by PimpUigi
You've forgotten that Mexico is also a part of the North American market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thenewguy
I have a different Nomad now because the brightness knob on the original fell off.
This thread is great, chessage I haven't seen any of these articles. This definitely contributes to actual sales figure data on the 16-bit consoles and the 32X.
I would not emphasize which system sold more based on these numbers. From what I have seen all sales figures consider a 10% margin of error acceptable. Production numbers versus actual sales to consumers also always seems to be a fudging point.
Still, awesome links, I'll have to check out this website to see what else they have available, and have saved these links to my hard drive in case they change them. ;)
Doesn't specifically mention the Genesis, but 'the video game industry'. Given the market share that Sega had 58% of that (unless that includes SegaCD sales too), that only put's it at ~4.5 million units for 1994. 1.2+1.5+4.5= 7.2 million. That leaves 1992 and 1993 to make up the 10.8 million difference. But the article don't specifically mention any loss of Genesis sales. If I had to take a guess and assume the above is true, I would assume 1992 had larger sales numbers figures of the 10.8 million. Seems to coincide with what I remember of popularity overall of the Genesis being peaked by the end of 1992.Quote:
While our industry had sales that took a small slip last year, Sega grew its market share," Kalinske said. "Overall, the video game industry sold nearly 8 million 16-bit systems last year,
I would beg to differ, citing Mortal Kombat's impact on the Genesis' sales.
From 1994 on Sega was dead in CanadaQuote:
Originally Posted by Thenewguy
Snes still flourished for a couple yrs DK and Killer Instinct
Still remember DK vs. Vectorman wow was that one sided.
Also at least were I grew up I was really out numbered being a Genesis owner. Everybody else seemed to have Snes and Super Mario World.
Interesting to know Canada's view.
I was one of the few here in Philadelphia to have a Super NES. I think I was the only one I know who had both.
Everyone else went NES, Genesis, PlayStation. (some with quick pitstops to 32X, or Saturn, but then all quickly to PlayStation)
Perhaps so, but we have no way of knowing what the actual number is. As far as I can tell "1 million" is pretty much a guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by PimpUigi
Um, no, that article clearly says that they expected to ship 600,000 by the end of December, and that as of Dec. 12 they had already sold 300 something thousand. That's quite different from what you say there.Quote:
I also think it's likely that 665,000 32X's is all they ever made.
Since they initially said they were making 600,000 - and the 665,000 number is for the fiscal year of 1994, which ends in mid 1995, and by then the 32X was abandoned.
Now I know that by mid '95 the 32X was dead and selling for $25, but still, it sold well that first holiday season, and I think it's very possible that they made more than just those 600,000... they probably sold most of those Christmas '94, then sold the rest and some more in '95. Though yes, I would agree that a majority of the system's total sales were surely from that holiday '94 season.
Reliable source? It's a Brazilian article that doesn't even cite the source. Now I'm not saying they didn't sell 2 million -- I know the Genesis 3 sold quite well that year -- but I'd rather see some corroborating evidence for the number.Quote:
So anyway, it's a reliable source that says 2 million Majesco, same source for the 2 million Tec Toy.
This makes it 26.5 million for N&S America.
From the first post...Quote:
Originally Posted by tomaitheous
I know that includes Sega CD revenues, but still, I don't see that adding up to 10.8 million for '92 and '93. We seem to continue not really knowing what it sold...Quote:
1992 - $1,151
1993 - $1,938
1994 - $1,812
List updated! Also, here's another article on Sega's 1993 sales.Quote:
Originally Posted by chessage
What's its serial number? **Not to be confused with "model number"**Quote:
Originally Posted by PimpUigi
Wait, how did we get 5.5 million out of that article?
Falcon...
The 32X's 665,000 number is obviously not from that article.
If you haven't already, you should check through the Mega Drive discussion archives on Wikipedia, there are tons of links there and ongoing arguments on sales figures.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheath
wikis are the last place I will go after I catalog all of the print magazine articles and usenet posts on these topics. It's a good thing I've got no time constraints on this. ;)
Source for Pimuigi's revenue figures: http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/g...Videogames.pdf (all figures seem to be for calendar years, fiscal years wouldn't make sense for many -let along JP vs US fiscal years and dealing with multinational companies including Atari)
It says in the article, "Sega expects Genesis hardware sales in 1994 to be the same as last year, 5.5 million units". Go here and you'll find the appropriate sentence.Quote:
Originally Posted by PimpUigi
--
Could you please answer the question that I asked in my previous post?
I will as soon as I can.
I'm lazy to go get my Nomad.
Why do you want its serial number?
It's not the one I got in 1999/2000 (pretty sure it was 2000)
I'm going back to ignoring that "18 million" figure now :), for one thing, it doesn't actually state what its talking about anyway, it doesn't say "US", "North America" or "Worldwide", or anything, and apart from that I just can't really make any sense out of it.
I had a bit of a look into the Canadian videogame market, and in 1994 it seems to have been tiny, as in so small that it probably had very little effect on the "America's" total at all, that total must be 99% US sales, 3 million sold in Canada is completely out of the question, in fact, Britain only sold 3 million Mega Drives, and here the Mega Drive was easily winning, we seem to have had a much bigger market, and (if Wiki is correct) we have nearly double the population of Canada anyway.
I guess this makes the SNES total make more sense now though, as out of that 23.3 million I would guess that at best only ~1 million can be realistically attributed to South America, Canada and Mexico combined
So the Mega Drive probably sold somewhere between 21 and 22 million in the US (not including Nomad) whilst the SNES sold somewhere between 22 and 23 million in the US.
Brazil pushed "The America's" to an overall Mega Drive win :mrgreen:
Also, Black Falcon I think I ran into that mention of Majesco winning one of the late years, it was in the Sam Pettus article -
"Majesco would wind up selling between 1 and 2 million Genesis 2 and Genesis 3 consoles, along with 10 million or so Genesis cartridges for fiscal year 1998. In comparison, Nintendo would only sell 1 million SNES consoles and 6 million SNES carts. As with the American Civil War, the rebels would win the last battle - if not the war itself."
It's for research purposes.Quote:
Originally Posted by PimpUigi
Quote:
Why do you want its serial number?
Genesis is so beast+2019=mark of the beast.
Brazil was still a relatively small niche and the SMS was still a major competitor as well when Sega licensed the rights to TecToy... (unless you want to include TT sales ;)) I wouldn't say Sega necessarily had a huge advantage in SA necessarily given Brazil was their only dominant market... then again it was likely the NES that would be more notable otherwise and not the SNES. (I wouldn't be surprised if the SMS in Brazil was still outselling the MD when Sega sold the rights to TecToy)Quote:
Originally Posted by Thenewguy
Regardless of one outselling the other, it's clear the 29 million figure is still far, far too low...
There are more specific figures for Majesco as well (including software sales), but I forget what Pimpuigi's sources were for those.
The one wikipedia uses.
No I don't think so. Brazil is by far the biggest market in South America, and from what I've read Tectoy's success there was pretty much considered a miracle, people did not buy officially licensed consoles in South America, illegal clones push all official consoles out of the market.Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
Sega most certainly had a huge advantage in South America, in that they sold 2 million whilst everybody else probably sold pretty much nothing.
At least thats what I've heard, I'm sure some of the Brazilian members of Sega-16 could correct mistakes and shed a lot more light on it.
If you count all the SNES or NES clones together you'd probably have a very large number of Nintendo machines in SA though, but bootleg clones aren't usually counted in total sales.
From Tec Toy's website:
1993 - Reached 1 Million videogames sold
1996 - Reached 2 Milions videogames sold
Those numbers probably include Master System, Game Gear, Sega CD, 32X and Saturn.
And TecToy's licensed clones aren't counted either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thenewguy
Again, it would be good to have a definitive date for when the MD really got popular in Brazil compared to the SMS. (if the SMS was still dominant in the mid 90s, that would likely mean the vast majority of MD sales in the 90s were from TecToy and not Sega -let alone the additional sales in the past 10 years)
I'm not sure I understand, Tec Toy manufactured all of their Mega Drive's from their manufacturing plants in the free economic zone from the beginning, they were an officially licenced Sega hardware manufacturer after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
To be honest I'm not actually happy with the Tec Toy sales estimates anyway, I would like a much more concrete source than what we have, the same goes for Majesco, though at least there we've got the Sam Pettus article giving us an outline of 1-2 million in addition to that Gamehall Network source.
Yes, officially licensed but they used cloned hardware... or at least that's what I understand. (maybe using exact licensed duplicates of Sega's ASICs initially, but later consolidatign them further themselves... unless those were exact copies of the ASICs used in the VA4 model 2 and Geneiss 3 -the external board circuitry is obviously different and resulted in poor audio quality and occasional video quality issues -hence why many modern clones have those same problems as they're based on TecToy's board design and using direct copies of Tectoy's clone ASIC -Yobo's FC3 is the primary exception of a new custom ASIC, @Games doesn't use clone hardware at all of course)Quote:
Originally Posted by Thenewguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
I had a TecToy's Mega Drive II (indeed, it was like the european Mega Drive I). My father gave it to me at Christmas, in 1992. The sound of that machine was great. I'm sure it's not a clone, and now it's part of a collection from a friend of mine. I think the clones began to appear after 1994. But the TecToy's fake Mega Drive without cart slot, the console-in-a-chip garbage... Just after 2003/2004. The "Super Mega Drive III" with "Show do Milhão 2" included was still a "real" Mega Drive.
I think that don't count these sales it is a big mistake.
Recently, one of the Tectoy's bosses gave an interview talking about the SMS launch time in Brazil and the success of SMS and Mega Drive in our market.
The guy said, many times, that they were directly helped by SOA on the study of the video game market, including months of training and helped research at the USA with the SOA staff. For me, it's very clear that Tectoy was more than a enterprise with a license, they were partners!
The guy said that one of the founders of Sega helped personally to choose line-up of SMS for its launch in Brazil.
With that said, I think that Tectoy's numbers really count. And, being Brazilian, I'm pretty sure that by the end of 1993 (at maximum) Mega Drive have sold here more than SMS.
You have to remember that SMS was launched here in 1989 and Mega Drive at 1990. SMS did not have many time to be the "king" of consoles in Brazil...
Just take a look:
http://jogos.uol.com.br/infograficos...uol-jogos.jhtm
The guy talks about the partnership with Sega, Tectoy's history, Sega's history, etc...
During the video, a photo with the guy, another guy from Sega and Ayrton Senna is showed...
Thing is, any officially licensed version/clone of the console counts towards sales.
So hopefully ATgames will release some numbers at some point.
Just to add some information, Ayrton Senna's Monaco GP II was a Tectoy's idea.
[QUOTE=agostinhobaroners;316327]I had a TecToy's Mega Drive II (indeed, it was like the european Mega Drive I). My father gave it to me at Christmas, in 1992. The sound of that machine was great. I'm sure it's not a clone, and now it's part of a collection from a friend of mine. I think the clones began to appear after 1994. But the TecToy's fake Mega Drive without cart slot, the console-in-a-chip garbage... Just after 2003/2004. The "Super Mega Drive III" with "Show do Milhão 2" included was still a "real" Mega Drive.
I think that don't count these sales it is a big mistake.
Recently, one of the Tectoy's bosses gave an interview talking about the SMS launch time in Brazil and the success of SMS and Mega Drive in our market.[/qupte]
I'd gotten the impression that Tectoy was a licensed distributor only with Sega supplying all the hardware and most software up to the mid/late 90s when (like Majesco) they fully sold of distribution rights without the same sort of royalties present earlier and eventually TecToy taking over full production as well. (not sure when the latter occurred, but it seems to have been after the release of the MD III -which still used actual Sega parts)
I'm not totally sure on the actual license relationship or timelines for TecToy or Majesco... more info is needed. (especially any point where terms of the agreement changed -especially if/when Sega completely sold the distribution rights off without any continued royalties and when they did the same for hardware manufacturing)
Interesting info there! But how did actual sales figures compare? (the SMS should have been far cheaper and thus more attractive early on... the NES was still selling strong in the early 90s in North America and the NES and SMS were still notable in Europe into the early/mid 90s as well for that matter and those were less price sensitive regions -especially the US) In fact I don't think it was until 1992 that the Genesis was outselling the NES, and that's market share, not including previous sales. (the NES peaked in '89/90 and started declining thereafter but still held a big chunk of the market in terms of sales -it became the defacto lower-end budget console of the early 90s just as the 2600 had been in the mid/late 80s, the SNES and Genesis would become in the late 90s, the PSX in the early/mid 2000s, and the PS2 from 2005 up to today more or less)Quote:
With that said, I think that Tectoy's numbers really count. And, being Brazilian, I'm pretty sure that by the end of 1993 (at maximum) Mega Drive have sold here more than SMS.
You have to remember that SMS was launched here in 1989 and Mega Drive at 1990. SMS did not have many time to be the "king" of consoles in Brazil...
Just take a look:
http://jogos.uol.com.br/infograficos...uol-jogos.jhtm
The guy talks about the partnership with Sega, Tectoy's history, Sega's history, etc...
During the video, a photo with the guy, another guy from Sega and Ayrton Senna is showed...
That's a rather different context though... I think it would be more fair to actually compare things with officially licensed sega designed hardware... albeit for the most part (before TECTOY shifted to their own ASICs in the late 90s) that would be using actual Sega manufactured hardware anyway be it the chips if not the complete boards. (in Majesco's case they were simply assembling the cases and packaging the things iirc -the internals are all branded with Sega)Quote:
Originally Posted by PimpUigi
A reasonable cut-off date would be when the SNES and MD/Genesis were no longer being sold new in any major market region. (which would at least be up to 2000) Any other figures would skew that, officially licensed or not. (albeit I doubt the firecore's sales would even make a dent in that... TecToy's probably would though)