NES Repair HELP

Hi there guys, i own a European Version NES, quite some time now, recently it started give me the ultimate problem on the front load NES's the blinking screens, i tryed to fix my 72 pin connector, but i got it worse than it was, so i just got a new one from ebay, so i installed it but i would still blink, i saw that the game tryed to boot but it would blink, so i just dissabled the lockout chip, and the blinking stoped, but now well this hapens:

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5928/081209145006.jpg

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1...1209145142.jpg

The sound works fine and the caracter sprites appear good, also i can control them with no problem.

The game plays this way, both up and down position, so it cant be from the connector, its a weird problem has i never saw something like this.

I hope you can help me.

Thx in advance

This could be one of 2 things:

-Bad RAM
-Bad GPU

I have an NES that had a really nasty GPU; EVERYTHING displayed as solid blocks of color and lines. I also once saw a PC Engine CoreGrafx II that had a similar problem to this due to faulty RAM. First thing I'd do would be to replace the RAM. If that fails, you need to replace the GPU.

i see, so i gees i be better off buying a new NES, has i looked on ebay and on google, and i cant find ram or cpu chips for the NES. Any sites you can advise me?

You will need to gut a dead NES in order to replace the parts. That's what I did: I had a dead NES that would not power up no matter what parts I replaced, so I took out its GPU and put it into the NES with the dead GPU. I believe you can get the RAM for the NES online, but I don't know where you could get those RAM chips.

i think you fucked up somewhere in the chip disabling procedure, or your pin connector still isn't installed right.

Ace...get real, I mean, there's a chance this guy has some electronics experience as the presence is unusually high on sega-16, but replacing RAM chips in an NES isn't something that 99% of people are going to be able to successfully pull off with their current skills (or would want to bother with as it would take lots of time to find a replacement and probably end up costing what a working loose system would cost).

Is definitely a bad RAM or corrupted PPU, I have seen it happening....
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The NES uses 2 SRam memory chips 16kbit (2kWords * 8bit).. If you think they are really bad, you can do 3 things:


- Get the chips from other NES.

- Buy replacement ones like the hyundai HY6116AP or the sharp LH5116. There are other manufacturers too, like fujitsu but I can't find it's part number.

- Get some higher density SRams, like 64kbit or 256kbit: those are more cheaper than the "rare"/"vintage" older ones. Just tie the extra address lines to Vcc or Gnd, and re-route any swapped signals.


Found another: Hitachi HM6116LP

the problem looks like some address lines are fired or not getting contact

Please post a closeup pic of your disabled 10NES chip showing the pin you clipped. This may shed better light on the issue.

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Originally Posted by tz101

Please post a closeup pic of your disabled 10NES chip showing the pin you clipped. This may shed better light on the issue.

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hum as for that i dont think so, the NES was having the same issue exept it blinked i could se the games for a milisec before it blinked, and it was aready with the same problem.

Has for replacing the ram i dont think is that reliable to buy a new ram chip and replace it, for the price of one i can get a lose NES, il just buy one, and keep this one for spares, it may come in handy, thx guys for the help, i could never gess that it would be something so lame has a dead ram or cpu chip, XD i mean the NES, SNES, genesis, are like tanks, these things can last forever.

Keep up the nice work.

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Originally Posted by konio38

hum as for that i dont think so, the NES was having the same issue exept it blinked i could se the games for a milisec before it blinked, and it was aready with the same problem.

Has for replacing the ram i dont think is that reliable to buy a new ram chip and replace it, for the price of one i can get a lose NES, il just buy one, and keep this one for spares, it may come in handy, thx guys for the help, i could never gess that it would be something so lame has a dead ram or cpu chip, XD i mean the NES, SNES, genesis, are like tanks, these things can last forever.

Keep up the nice work.

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lol, that's what I figured. No one goes around replacing RAM chips in NES's unless they just want to say they did it.

I guess you could sell it/give it to someone on here, though, they might want to try some crazy mod and have a somewhat throwaway system to test it out on.

I have replaced the rams in a NES before, but just because it was a NES2 Top Loader in great cosmetical condition...Otherwise I would had passed and to the pile of parts it goes :D ...
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Is that the same one you did the AV mod to?

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Originally Posted by kool kitty89

Is that the same one you did the AV mod to?

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Well, not the same one...But in the end, I did AV modded it and trade it...
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Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes

lol, that's what I figured. No one goes around replacing RAM chips in NES's unless they just want to say they did it.

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Forget the RAM, I replaced the GPU on a Front-Loader NES I got as part of a stash of broken game hardware. The NES from which the working GPU came from(another Front-Loader) would not turn on no matter what I replaced, so I took out its GPU and swapped it with the faulty one on the other NES.

for the record, how do you desolder chips like that? I can't imagine you can do it with just a soldering iron, do you need some sort of heat gun? It was never worthwhile to me to get that deep into the system when I did console repair as there is no way anyone would pay the money for that much time.

I kind of cheated when I replaced the GPU. First, I cut off the pins from the faulty GPU as close to the chip as possible, then remove the working GPU by cutting the pins as close to the motherboard as possible, then solder everything together. It's messy, but it works. I don't have the patience to desolder those chips(which is why I like my MicroGenius IQ-501 NES clone, since the CPU and GPU in it are socketed - it's one of the oldest Famiclones, so there's no NOAC in it, but rather a full motherboard), especially since my soldering iron can't desolder DIP chips for beans.

@Ace, just a quick observation, I'm pretty sure you are talking about the PPU when you're referring and talking about the "GPU" ;) ...

I remember when I first did the Micro Genius CPU/PPU swap mod, everyone else seems to liked the idea....It does gets much better compatibility afterwards....Also, there are other clones out there with the same modding capabilities..
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Quote:

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Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes

for the record, how do you desolder chips like that? I can't imagine you can do it with just a soldering iron, do you need some sort of heat gun? It was never worthwhile to me to get that deep into the system when I did console repair as there is no way anyone would pay the money for that much time.

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Heat guns are only good for SMDs or small dip packages, because the chip cools off quickly below melting temperatures as the gun goes away (to other pin regions). If too much heat is applied, the chip dies, or the board gets burned.
Anyway you need a soldering iron and a good solder sucker, or both in one tool, and start removing the solder from one pin to another...

Altough optional, there 's a great thing called solder wick, which is a bunch of copper strands together, and they cause the solder to be transfered from the pins to it.

With some practise and patience, even the 68000 DIP "surfboard" comes off, without crappy pin cutting, board scraping or other shitty jobs like that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jorge Nuno

Heat guns are only good for SMDs or small dip packages, because the chip cools off quickly below melting temperatures as the gun goes away (to other pin regions). If too much heat is applied, the chip dies, or the board gets burned.
Anyway you need a soldering iron and a good solder sucker, or both in one tool, and start removing the solder from one pin to another...

Altough optional, there 's a great thing called solder wick, which is a bunch of copper strands together, and they cause the solder to be transfered from the pins to it.

With some practise and patience, even the 68000 DIP "surfboard" comes off, without crappy pin cutting, board scraping or other shitty jobs like that.

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oh yeah, I forgot about that, durrr, lol. Those solder suckers are preeeetty sweet.

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Originally Posted by ooXxXoo

@Ace, just a quick observation, I'm pretty sure you are talking about the PPU when you're referring and talking about the "GPU" ;) ...

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No duh! I've just been referring to any graphics-producing chips as GPUs for a while.

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Originally Posted by Ace

No duh! I've just been referring to any graphics-producing chips as GPUs for a while.

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Well, the Nintendo PPU (Picture Pressing Unit) is more than graphics.....
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Originally Posted by ooXxXoo

Well, the Nintendo PPU (Picture Pressing Unit) is more than graphics.....
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picture processing unit, chief.

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Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes

picture processing unit, chief.

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Hey son, do you even know that the actual PPU name is the Ricoh RP2C02 (manufacured by Ricoh Co. Ltd )?.....Well, know you know ;) ...
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Originally Posted by ooXxXoo

Hey son, do you even know that the actual PPU name is the Ricoh RP2C02 (manufacured by Ricoh Co. Ltd )?.....Well, know you know ;) ...
..

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excellent Wikipedia cut and paste job cap'n skippy.

alternatively, way to read it right off of the chip.

If you want to impress me, take a guess at what this thing does that I built in my engineering instruments and measurements class:

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...LVISpretty.jpg

The Answer (no peeking!):

a capacitance based two phase flow measurement system utilizing a low-pass signal filter to determine the void fraction present in a statistical column at varying input flow rates.

And if you're wondering, yes, that's a 741 op amp chip.

Ah,ah!...Look who is talking, the Master of the Wiki reading and posting around here...Just go back and check some of your past posts ;) .....The rest is totally of topic, so, stop trolling this thread :D, and take care..Happy Holidays!...
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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ooXxXoo

Ah,ah!...Look who is talking, the Master of the Wiki reading and posting around here...Just go back and check some of your past posts ;) .....The rest is totally of topic, so, stop trolling this thread :D, and take care..Happy Holidays!...
....

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WTF do I post from Wiki that is technology related?

Totally off topic like you trying to nerd pwn Ace and then me with your silly terminology nonsense.

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Originally Posted by ooXxXoo

Well, the Nintendo PPU (Picture Pressing Unit) is more than graphics.....
..

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Yes, like a variety of other video controllers from the time, it has built-in DAC(s) for video output, like TI's VDP (composite plus a YPbPr variant I beleive, and Sega's implementatons outputting analog RGB). Than again, many such display controllers are a lot less than a "GPU" in general and should not necessarily be refered to as such either, but PPU/VDP are just differing terminology from the differing compaies of origin. (TI's nomenclature adopted by SEGA, with Nintendo using PPU instead, prior to N64 at least -opposed to Sega who continued using the term with the Saturn)
A GPU tends to refer to a dedicated graphics processor/coprocessor (possibly with a display controller integrated) providing some form of hardware acceleration (so a blitter and/or 3D polygon rendering, texture mapping, etc ASIC), a "VDP" could be a simple bitmap display controller. (which is more or less all the 32x's "Super VDP" is at any rate) Perhaps Atari's ANTIC coprocessor would be the earliest such example, if a limited one. (in that sense the PPU of the NES and VDP of SMS/Genesis are GPUs in the sense of providing hardware support for scrolling and sprite generation/manipulation -Atari's ancient TIA could generate 2 distinct pairs of player+missile plus a "ball" but had to be driven by the CPU opposed to ANTIC with the 8-bit/5200's compined with CTIA/GTIA)



As to the original topic:
Finding a loose NES is probably the most practical option, keep the broken one for spare parts though. (particularly with that replacement connector; also if you find one really cheap with a yellowed/damaged case, you can swap it along with the connector) I personally wouldn't toss the original connectors either, if they're in reasonble shape (even if not working properly) as you can clean/polish them and reset the pins for a tighter connection. (I didn't even have to reset mine, just a bit of polishing with 1000+ grit sandpaper blow out dust with canned air and finish with a cloth and rubbing alcohol) It wasn't much trouble for me; the biggest pain is just getting everything dissassembled, which you'd do for a replacement connector anyway. ;)

If there are really bent/damaged or corroded pins, then I'd probably scrap it. (assuming it wasn't one of the unused/reserved pins or 10NES pins -which you'd disable anyway)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kool kitty89

Yes, like a variety of other video controllers from the time, it has built-in DAC(s) for video output, like TI's VDP (composite plus a YPbPr variant I beleive, and Sega's implementatons outputting analog RGB). Than again, many such display controllers are a lot less than a "GPU" in general and should not necessarily be refered to as such either, but PPU/VDP are just differing terminology from the differing compaies of origin. (TI's nomenclature adopted by SEGA, with Nintendo using PPU instead, prior to N64 at least -opposed to Sega who continued using the term with the Saturn)
A GPU tends to refer to a dedicated graphics processor/coprocessor (possibly with a display controller integrated) providing some form of hardware acceleration (so a blitter and/or 3D polygon rendering, texture mapping, etc ASIC), a "VDP" could be a simple bitmap display controller. (which is more or less all the 32x's "Super VDP" is at any rate) Perhaps Atari's ANTIC coprocessor would be the earliest such example, if a limited one. (in that sense the PPU of the NES and VDP of SMS/Genesis are GPUs in the sense of providing hardware support for scrolling and sprite generation/manipulation -Atari's ancient TIA could generate 2 distinct pairs of player+missile plus a "ball" but had to be driven by the CPU opposed to ANTIC with the 8-bit/5200's compined with CTIA/GTIA)

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Jeez, talk about a complete misconception of PPU and GPU on my part! Now, I have to see which term to associate with which system.

:mrgreen: Yeah, sorry form my rambling.

I usually just say VDP, though VDC (video display controller) is probably more correct, a catch-all term for it. ;)

For some reason I don't really like the term PPU.