Mega Man 10

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes

look at my paint vs. photoshop analogy again. If they wanted to make it exactly as if it were an NES game, they should've programmed it as such and released it on the NES section of the VC. They were trying to duplicate the style of a certain hardware, and they took the easiest route possible. Programming an NES Mega Man game with modern code is like applying an HQ2X interpolation filter and calling it an "HD Remix." Say what you will, but I find MM9 phoned-in in game design and incredibly simple in production. If I didn't know better and watched a youtube video, I would've assumed it was a homebrew flash game made by some college student. If they want to take a modern programming shortcut, I want to see something that takes advantage of the new hardware or at least some game design that blows my mind.

---

So by that logic, you're saying the same thing about New Super Mario Bros, right? I mean, those games were deliberately made to recapture the style of the original NES & SNES games, and capitalize on the full potential of neither the DS or the Wii.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes

So you don't see the reason a painting made with real paint on a real canvas should be respected more than one done with a USB drawing pad and Photoshop using all of the special tools Photoshop offers? If they want to make MM9 with modern code, fine, it's still a lazy shortcut and it's still ignoring the potential for progress like we see in this game (that everyone still seems to have ignored):



THAT game knows how to combine retro look and aesthetic with a modern twist that really makes me enthusiastic about playing it. If they gave classic Mega Man that treatment, I would go bonkers.

---

You're comparing a singular medium (console games) to two forms of visual art, insinuating that digital art is a cop-out compared to using a canvas when it comes to 'respect and appreciation'?

HOW does a geometry wars style glowing effect to sprites justify a retro games existence, yet having a bare Megaman game (ignoring all the bonus content) that can't run on NES because of some complexity (precisely what you're praising) is not justified?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes

I respect older games (NES, Genesis, etc.) based on the limitations they had to work with. Pilotwings on SNES would be a laughable dogshit pile if it came out today, but for it's time, it was mind blowing.

---

It was 'mind blowing' because of linear progression, and you consider MM9 a step back in that progression of technical possibility; while consistently missing the point that the intention was to resemble the NES franchise. That in itself was the point of it's creation; and that is where you inject your absurd arguments that don't bear any meaning to it's design.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes

If you want to make a 100% retro looking game, program it as such, if you want to use modern code, do something that takes advantage of it.

---

Translation of your entire argument: "It sucks, it doesn't push the system's limits, it would be cool if it ran on NES though; but it doesn't so it sucks. It should glow, that's true progress."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes

but they had different sound cards, graphics cards, etc., so they all looked and sounded (not sure sounded is a word, but I don't care) different even when using the exact same game. I prefer the sound of some clones with certain NES games. Nevertheless, clone hardware and emulators are still running the original game code of the respective system, MM9 is not.

---

They were all standardized, with different drivers pushing the hardware. That's comparable to switching hand held controller's with 3rd party ones. You get different experience on the same standard. You still don't make sense with your arguments.

Emulators shouldn't matter towards appreciating a game. You're nitpicking over what's driving the software as if it would justify an argument that hates a game's design. That's where people raise their eyebrow when looking at your argument.

It's like saying: "I hate the taste of pepsi" and someone could say "Why?" to which a response would be: "It comes in plastic or alluminum cans, it should come in glass bottles, everywhere; but it doesn't so it sucks and tastes awful."

Retarded.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes

programmed as one.

As for clones, GenesisGuy, I look at it as one would've looked at IBM-compatible computers in the early 90's. To say there is only one acceptable system is being an ignorant fanboy douche. I own the original NES and SNES as well, in mint condition no less, but I'd rather archive them and emulate than wear them out and miss them later in life.

---

LOL! Archive them? These aren't biblical relics. You plan on living forever? Or are you going to dig out the real consoles when your eyes are shot, your arthritis cramps you up, and you have absolutely no hand to eye coordination to use a controller?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster

It was 'mind blowing' because of linear progression, and you consider MM9 a step back in that progression of technical possibility; while consistently missing the point that the intention was to resemble the NES franchise. That in itself was the point of it's creation; and that is where you inject your absurd arguments that don't bear any meaning to it's design.

---

+1. I think a lot of people were happy to see MM return to classic form. Especially after some of his later 3D versions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrMatthews

So by that logic, you're saying the same thing about New Super Mario Bros, right? I mean, those games were deliberately made to recapture the style of the original NES & SNES games, and capitalize on the full potential of neither the DS or the Wii.

---

Where are the NES styled graphics at? It doesn't looked like a repackaged game to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Da_Shocker

Where are the NES styled graphics at? It doesn't looked like a repackaged game to me.

---

Well, what MrMatthews was getting at is that New Super Mario Bros. doesn't really take advantage of the DS or Wii's capabilities because it was intended to be simplistic, much like how MM9 was.

It blows my mind that 17days would consider MM9 or 10 fine had it been real NES software, but not more advanced tech masking itself as NES software. Ask yourself this: what if Capcom had released the same EXACT game, running on actual NES emulation, what would be the difference? How would that be more or less lazy than the game that actually came out? It's, after all, the exact same experience.

Just ridiculous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ApolloBoy

Well, what MrMatthews was getting at is that New Super Mario Bros. doesn't really take advantage of the DS or Wii's capabilities because it was intended to be simplistic, much like how MM9 was.

---

Indeed. A deliberate design choice was made in order to recapture the spirit of the original games. MM9 just went the more literal route.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Da_Shocker

Where are the NES styled graphics at? It doesn't looked like a repackaged game to me.

---

Oh, so you must not have played too many Mega Man games, then. How is MM9 any more "recycled" than 4-6? Prof. 17 can feel free to answer that one, as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zetastrike

17days, what was wrong with MM8's core gameplay? I think it's the best one in the original series after 3. MM7 looked good, but was very lacking in the gameplay, though.

---

I thought it was great excdept that tedious level with the board (snowboarding type one) with all the "jump jump" "slide slide" crap, that got annoying pretty quickly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by genesisguy

Aren't you the guy that puts your original carts into retro duos? ;)
I don't see all your hate for MM9. Who cares if the flickr isn't real or not? It's classic MM on new stages! Nuff said!

---

I would appreciate a game coded for the original hardware a bit more personally, the difference might be slight, but it'd be there. Regardless, my main point is that they could have done what Lucas Arts did with the monkey Island remake. Or like New Super Mario brothers. (with modern looks and retro style; but in the MI case, also featuring the original graphics as well in VGA mode)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes

As for clones, GenesisGuy, I look at it as one would've looked at IBM-compatible computers in the early 90's. To say there is only one acceptable system is being an ignorant fanboy douche. I own the original NES and SNES as well, in mint condition no less, but I'd rather archive them and emulate than wear them out and miss them later in life.

---

Yeah, it's not like clones are software emulation (except for a couple), and not to mention th emany clones of the hardware from BITD like the dendy and scorpion and such. (or for the 2600 ont he ColecoVision or with the Gemini, Genesi sclones were out there too, including Scorpions)

Some PC clone/compatibles did also have popular, but short lived features like the PC Jr. and Tandy 1000's video and audio enhancements.

However, I see no reason to use clones in place of original consoles due to fear of wearing them out... Saving space perhaps if you don''t have the room, but most of the major ways for the consoles (and games) to go bad are unrelated to frequency of use. Electrolytic capacitors can dry out (necessitating replacement), that's probably the biggest one, others might include damage from power surges or reversed polarity due to power supply mismach (not ever a porblem on NES with it's AC external output), or "bit rot" of the cartridges (mostly only from E/PROMS of pirate/homebrew/repro carts), corrosion, or static discharge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster

IBM compatible computers in the early 90's did adhere to a standard, the x86 processor. You don't make sense.

---

They also stuck to CGA video at the very least. Likewise, hardware clones feature compatible, reverse engineered video and audio hardware plus 650x CPU integrated into an ASIC (NOAC), or some old clones that copied the individual chips (the ones dating back to the 80s listed above). There were soem flaws, but then again there were some areas where PC clones weren't perfectly compatible either. (besides, sometimes later versions of the real hardware -like Genesis 3, is less compatible than some clines -which will work with Virtua Racing out of the box)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrMatthews

So by that logic, you're saying the same thing about New Super Mario Bros, right? I mean, those games were deliberately made to recapture the style of the original NES & SNES games, and capitalize on the full potential of neither the DS or the Wii.

---

But NSMB does have updated modern graphics with a retro twist to them... 3D even. I was suggesting sticking to 2D expressly personally, like MM8 quality, or a little ahead of that. (again, they could do what LA did with the MI remake and have an NES style mode and an updated graphics+sound mode)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by InternalPrimate

It blows my mind that 17days would consider MM9 or 10 fine had it been real NES software, but not more advanced tech masking itself as NES software. Ask yourself this: what if Capcom had released the same EXACT game, running on actual NES emulation, what would be the difference? How would that be more or less lazy than the game that actually came out? It's, after all, the exact same experience.

---

I'd have aplauded them for their effort and attention to detail, but most of the mass market wouldn't have much cared... Then again, the totally retro style doesn't tend to apeal to the mass market overall either...

I really don't care that much that it's only a psudo NES game (I mean, Peasant's Quest is onaly a psudo old EGA DOS game, but it's still cool, but that's a little different as well), but I still think MM8 or better visuals and audio would have been awsome and including an "8-bit" mode as well would have been the icing on the cake for retro fans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrMatthews

So by that logic, you're saying the same thing about New Super Mario Bros, right? I mean, those games were deliberately made to recapture the style of the original NES & SNES games, and capitalize on the full potential of neither the DS or the Wii.

---

Absolutely not. I'm not saying they need to extract every ounce of graphics potential for the game to be acceptable. Though, I do wish there was a little more flair in NSMBW, I don't see any reason it couldn't have been an N64 game using a RAM expansion as-is. Imagine for a second if NSMBW looked like this: http://Orioto.deviantart.com/art/Milky-Sky-94232743 , it would've been unbelievable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster

You're comparing a singular medium (console games) to two forms of visual art, insinuating that digital art is a cop-out compared to using a canvas when it comes to 'respect and appreciation'?

HOW does a geometry wars style glowing effect to sprites justify a retro games existence, yet having a bare Megaman game (ignoring all the bonus content) that can't run on NES because of some complexity (precisely what you're praising) is not justified?



It was 'mind blowing' because of linear progression, and you consider MM9 a step back in that progression of technical possibility; while consistently missing the point that the intention was to resemble the NES franchise. That in itself was the point of it's creation; and that is where you inject your absurd arguments that don't bear any meaning to it's design.



Translation of your entire argument: "It sucks, it doesn't push the system's limits, it would be cool if it ran on NES though; but it doesn't so it sucks. It should glow, that's true progress."



They were all standardized, with different drivers pushing the hardware. That's comparable to switching hand held controller's with 3rd party ones. You get different experience on the same standard. You still don't make sense with your arguments.

Emulators shouldn't matter towards appreciating a game. You're nitpicking over what's driving the software as if it would justify an argument that hates a game's design. That's where people raise their eyebrow when looking at your argument.

It's like saying: "I hate the taste of pepsi" and someone could say "Why?" to which a response would be: "It comes in plastic or alluminum cans, it should come in glass bottles, everywhere; but it doesn't so it sucks and tastes awful."

Retarded.

---

First off, it's not the glow I care about (I take it you watched about 3 seconds of the video), did you see how the space invader-style enemies animated? Rather than being static sprites, they had a very smooth flash-like animation to them that really adds visual appeal. Imagine if the original Mega Man-style sprite and enemies animated like that, it would be awesome!

How you don't get my clone computers=clone video game hardware is baffling to me, you basically restated my assertion in your comment. You get a different experience even though the base hardware is functioning the same. Emulators are different, of course, as they are different hardware acting like the original hardware, but I was strictly comparing physical hardware to physical hardware.

Making a new MM game that would run on real hardware would be a significant tribute, but again, I repeat, as is it's just a lazy cash in. The only reason older Mega Man games were respectable was because they were the best games the hardware could handle. If the original Mega Man were released today as a flash game, no one would care, it would get lost in the sea of other flash games. The only reason anyone cares about MM9 and MM10 is because they've somehow been conned into accepting a half-assed effort instead of giving the series the upgrade it deserves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by genesisguy

LOL! Archive them? These aren't biblical relics. You plan on living forever? Or are you going to dig out the real consoles when your eyes are shot, your arthritis cramps you up, and you have absolutely no hand to eye coordination to use a controller?

---

There you go again. I'm not planning on dying tomorrow. Ever think my or someone else's kids might want to know what it's like to play on the real system some day? I'd rather make 2 clicks and play with any controller I choose than dig out a cartridge and be tied down to whatever controller company X decided I should use. Being able to play SNES games with a Saturn controller is very refreshing, to say the least.

I would be proud to say I have one of the last few working Sega CDs 50 years from now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by InternalPrimate

It blows my mind that 17days would consider MM9 or 10 fine had it been real NES software, but not more advanced tech masking itself as NES software. Ask yourself this: what if Capcom had released the same EXACT game, running on actual NES emulation, what would be the difference? How would that be more or less lazy than the game that actually came out? It's, after all, the exact same experience.

Just ridiculous.

---

Probably the same way everyone goes ga ga over Chilly Willy's Wolfenstein and upcoming Doom 32X ports. Sure, we already have a Doom for 32X, we can play a PERFECT source port on just about any modern computer or device, yet people will shell out $150 for a flash cart to play a real 32X version on the real 32X hardware. Why the same people couldn't appreciate the same thing coming from Nintendo doesn't make sense to me. Like I keep saying, the NES Mega Man games were good because they were the best the hardware could do. If the original Mega Man came out for XBOX LIVE for the first time ever in 2009, people would be slamming it with 1/10 reviews calling it "broken" and "a joke." You know why? because modern computing allows for better gameplay than what the NES could provide. What's next, are you going to ask Capcom to make a new Resident Evil with super low res pre-rendered rooms, low polygon characters, static camera angles, awkward controls, etc. so it will be more like the original game on Playstation? Oh please Capcom, please cop out on the next Resident Evil too, pretty please. Mega Man Powered Up and Maverick Hunter X were awesome, my only gripe is they never made it to consoles, MM9 is a joke. Any college freshman could've done a better MM9 with a little flash training and some old MM sprites.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes

Probably the same way everyone goes ga ga over Chilly Willy's Wolfenstein and upcoming Doom 32X ports. Sure, we already have a Doom for 32X, we can play a PERFECT source port on just about any modern computer or device, yet people will shell out $150 for a flash cart to play a real 32X version on the real 32X hardware. Why the same people couldn't appreciate the same thing coming from Nintendo doesn't make sense to me. Like I keep saying, the NES Mega Man games were good because they were the best the hardware could do. If the original Mega Man came out for XBOX LIVE for the first time ever in 2009, people would be slamming it with 1/10 reviews calling it "broken" and "a joke." You know why? because modern computing allows for better gameplay than what the NES could provide. What's next, are you going to ask Capcom to make a new Resident Evil with super low res pre-rendered rooms, low polygon characters, static camera angles, awkward controls, etc. so it will be more like the original game on Playstation? Oh please Capcom, please cop out on the next Resident Evil too, pretty please. Mega Man Powered Up and Maverick Hunter X were awesome, my only gripe is they never made it to consoles, MM9 is a joke. Any college freshman could've done a better MM9 with a little flash training and some old MM sprites.

---

It seems to me that you're just missing the point. You keep insisting that certain favorite games from past consoles (Pilot Wings and Mega Man) would be considered trash if they were released in 2009, but that logic is only based on their visuals. Visuals were a vehicle for game mechanics for those games though, and that's the reason why they're so fun. Pilot Wings always looked like ass, but it's a hell of a lot of fun to play, even today.

Again 17days, how would it be considered lazy if it was deliberately designed to be like the original games? Again, Capcom did what they set out to do and they didn't want to update the style or make it look like MM7 or 8. Just because they chose to make MM9 look like the original NES games does not a phoned-in game make.

A little break from the heated debate, does anyone else love the cover art for MM10?! I think this is my favorite cover of any video game magazine ever.

http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/pho...f7a9f50cc5.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by InternalPrimate

A little break from the heated debate, does anyone else love the cover art for MM10?! I think this is my favorite cover of any video game magazine ever.

http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/pho...f7a9f50cc5.jpg

---

Awesome cover.
I'll never subscribe to that rag now though.

I called them when I picked up a Wii & Twilight Princess, for the free players guide w/subscription combo. The call center rep didn't have a clue what was going on because they just switched the parent publisher, She couldn't even give me a subscription by phone and recommended I call back in 3-4 weeks.

I had to laugh. I worked in call centers before, and I know the score on that front; I certainly knew she was new by the shellshock in her voice and her telling me 'the truthful waiting period'. She got really enthusiastic and said "Or I can take down your credit card number now, file it; and put it in when the systems come back up!"

After the long & lost spiel with a tone of failure & sadness in her voice; the sudden light-bulb going off in her mind (enthusiasm) was a huge contrast. She had no idea what subscription offers I was talking about, and asked me several times for my credit card before I gave up on it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by InternalPrimate

http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/pho...f7a9f50cc5.jpg

---

I guess that's the infamous Sheep Man in the lower left.