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How can an opinion be wrong? Opinions are just that, opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis Knight
Besides, that doesn't change the fact that older systems tend to look like crap on most newer TVs. That's the main reason why I don't want to switch to an HDTV.
Yeah, or anything not supporting at least 480p (so anything up through Wii -which has soem content that is SD only I think -I don't think VC games in 240p/480i get upscaled with the wii in 480p mode -hell most VC games default to 4x3 as well, so they're all stretched if you normally run in 16x9 as we do), I think a fair number of GC titles didn't offer the progressive mode an dmost/all require th option to be selevted in the menu. (so not good for using with a VGA monitor for example, which can'y accept SD signals)Quote:
Originally Posted by Baloo
Best option is a multisync HDTV supporting 480p/540p/720p/1080i natively (with SD content still requiring deinterlacing AFIK, but at least not scaling), I think some support 1080p as well -or they should. (otherwise that gets converted to 1080i)Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis Knight
Very crisp, no digital lag (other than deintrlacing -none from scaling), high contrast of HDTVs, ability to work with conventional light guns when set to 60 Hz. (I think)
The other option is a nice CRT VGA monitor. (try used cumputer/electronic supply stores) Big monitors are harder to come by, 19-20" are out there, soemthing like 25+ inches is not going to be as common though. (and a CRT HDTV probably easier to find)
What would be freaking amazing is a CRT HDTV supporiting 480p/540/720/1080i/p as well as true SD 480i/p. (plus 72 Hz for VGA and 24 fps cinema on blueray -or 120 Hz for the same purpose -except that frequency would work for 30/60 Hz as well and reduce flicker/eye strain)
Importer, that picture is a bit hard to discern, but from what I can see you're running in widescreen (thus making the picture stretched) and the immage also lookes quite jaggy, is the filtering all turnered close to 0 (sometimes 1 has a benefit to some degree if you like sharp edges).
Are you using an s-video cable like with the super famicom? (composite is decent for the N64, better than the SNES, maybe more like the SNES Jr) But S-video is great.
The N64 looks great on my 27" Sanyo CRT, I was playing OOT a lot a couple weeks ogo and it looked fine. Nice sharp graphics, granted in low resolution of 240p, and of course, with the filtered textures. (most of which really would look a lot worse if unfiltered given that you can se some textelization through the filtering...)
The lack of (or much less obvious) texture warpind and polygon artifacts on the N64 make most games look a bit better than some PSX/Saturn/DOS games at the time. (DOS was also 256 colors though) Sometimes the lack of filtering did benefit the PSX though, the twitchy textures/polygons, not so much.
Some of that jaggyness is going to be from the deinterlacing, the gaps in 240p on an SD CRT offer a sort of anitaliasing for low-res stuff. (turing sharpness to 0 should help as well -on an LCD/Plasma set, not on CRTs as "sharpness" should be max on CRTs -going less than 100% just blurs the display)
I don't understand. I have a Samsung HDTV and all of my post-32bit consoles look fine. Its actually the NES, Genesis, and SNES stuff that looks hideous on my HD when output through the original systems, and only look good when being emulated via XBOX.
Anything pre-Dreamcast will look like ass on an LCD unless you use S-Video or Progressive scan. Nintendo made an S-Video cable that works for SNES, N64, and Gamecube, it definitely helps with the output on an LCD, colors much brighter and sharper, etc. Not perfect, but better than using plain old AV cables, and the best option for your Gamecube if you don't have an early, component cable system.
Nice way to dodge around your original claim, which was:
See, at first you said that HDTVs make new systems look like crap. That's what was wrong. Go play a 360 on an SDTV and tell me that HDTVs make it 'look like crap'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo Boy
Like Kitty says, if the system supports progressive, it's better on a HD television.
But I guess you're old fashioned.
I've seen my brother play his 360 through HDMI, and while the picture is sharper than through component, it just didn't seem "natural" to me as opposed to on an SDTV. I never said that new systems look like crap on an HDTV, just that I prefer playing them on an SDTV CRT. Am I the only one who feels like this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis Knight
*hugs Commodore 1702*
Maybe so. I played my 360 via component on an SDTV for a few months until I could afford an HDMI-enabled HDTV, and I was overjoyed by the increase in texture resolution. It was like all my games were brand new. But I guess tastes vary.
Sure do agree about old systems and HDTVs. That's why I have a standard def TV sitting right next to my HD one. Best thing for Saturn. (I think?)
Hmm, the difference in composite vs s-video (or RGB/component in 240p/480i) should be similar on SD CRT and LCD/plasma sets. Any digital display will to deinterlace the signal (and unfortunately most/all tend to not offer a single feild+scan doubling feature, which would be ideal for 240p stuff -and 480i with combing problems).Quote:
Originally Posted by Namakubi
Note, of course, that sharpness should be at zero (on lcd/plasma), the only difference should be composite looking blurrier than s-video. (the quality of both being highly dependent on the quality and method of deinterlacing, same for RGB/component except some HD sets seem to refuse SD dignals via component)
I have a dedicated SD LCD TV (only accepts 480i/240p) and it looks OK with old games, but I'm pretty sure it knocks everything down to 30 fps, not displaying 60 feilds per second individually. (unless it can tell the difference between 480i and 240p, I haven't seen combing in 240/60p, so maybe it can detect the difference)
So basicly, any HDTV with bad deinterlacing hardware will make all SD content look bad regardless of being composite, s-video, YUV, or RGB.
Hmm, I prefer using a CRT (HDTV or VGA monitor) if possible, using VGA (or YPbPr to VGA), of course you can use analog component or VGA on many LCD/Plasma sets as well, but that's usually not advantageous compared to hdmi. (unless HDMI won't allow you to select the resolution you want, my dad had to use VGA to set his PC into the native 1360x768 of our set rather than HDMI forcing 1280x720 ... with bad blurring)Quote:
Originally Posted by ApolloBoy
I like a nice sharp picture, as long as it's accurate (not false filters/enhancement), thus I prefer a CRT which can display the nztive resolution pixel per pixel. Portal on my freind's xbox 360 looked great on our 20" VGA monitor in 1440x1080. (not sure if that game supported 1080p or if it was one of the games that upscales 720p though)
In addition to used electronics stores, you might find some nice VGA monitors on craig's list. (maybe even CRT HDTVs)
Still, we usually have our wii set-up on the 27" SD Sanyo (flat face CRT) in anamorphic mode. (whic also makes the scanlines much less visible)
His picture doesn't look smudge (other than due to the camera/lighting), but it looks all jaggy (more than it shoud, even for line doubled 240p), probably due to a combination of deinterlacing (combinging lines from 2 frames rather than displaying each individually) and sharpness not being at zero. (which adds artifacting, often more noticable in low res 3D games than 2D ones)Quote:
Originally Posted by sega fan
Importer, you obviously have the RAM expansion in your N64, but do you have any lucas arts games which support high-res mode (or interlaced mode in general, as some seem to run in 320x480i when in low detail mode, at least Episode 1 racer does -except for the title screen and intro cutscene I think). Indiana Jones and the Infernal machine even runs in highres mode by default. (no ram needed) Others would include Rogue Squadron, Battle for Naboo, Perfect Dark, 007: The World is not Enough, and probably soem others I can't think of atm.
You should test those and compare. (as the deinterlacing should be doing what it's meant to, rather than screwing up the 240/60p display used on many games)
I've had my N64 hooked up to a Sony Wega Hi-Scan CRT and it looks like crap; 2D games look even worse than the 3D games. This television supports 480i/480p/720p/1080i. The rest of the older consoles look fine on this television, even though the screen exposes the flaws of those lower resolution games. It's a totally different story when I hook up those consoles to my 1080p LCD though.Quote:
Originally Posted by sega fan
Let's see 'em.Quote:
Originally Posted by sega fan
I'd like to see em at least. :)
I've been wondering what the best modern display is for N64.
Not too long ago a friend and I played some Mario Kart 64 on his rear projection widescreen and after 20-30 minutes it gave me an eye twitch that lasted for an hour or more afterward.
I'm just fine with all of my old consoles hooked up to a 19" CRT.
Please don't use "32-bit" to discribe the era, "16-bit" is at least fairly clear to mean 4-gen, 8-bit can mean anything from VCS to PC-Engine if stretched (which also fits under 16-bit), and 32-bit+ gets more confusing. Just use 1st/2nd/3rd/4th/5th generation instead. (we're in the 7th gen right now, pong consoles and such were 1st gen, early MPU based consoles like VCS/Intellivision were 2nd gen, etc)Quote:
Originally Posted by 5233
Just because it's a CRT doesn't mean it will display SD content properly, it may be deinterlacing and upscaling to 480p, not good for 240p content, or even some 480i content. (I don't knmow of any HD CRT which can natively display 480i/240p, as in a standard definition mode)Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
No, that was directed at the importer. (the topic starter)Quote:
Originally Posted by sega fan
My Genesis, SNES, NES and C-64 look fine on this CRT. It's not like my CRT has a native resolution like that of an LCD.Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
Yes. Maybe it was just the game I tested my 64 out on, but damn was it ugly.Quote:
Originally Posted by the.importer