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I know I'd be interested. But would this be covering picture quality and resolution on different brands, or just one HDTV comparing all pre-component systems?
Looks like you've already made that thread right here.
No HD TV's are good for retro gaming. A CRT is the only authentic way to do it :)
I've got a Toshiba LCD HDTV I could test my classic consoles on for this thread, if you want. I think side-by-side comparisons via pictures would be good enough.
I think best case would be a "retro" game running in 480i 16:9 anamorphic (as some N64 games offered, like Perfect dark), then 480i 4:3 (with pillarboxing), and anyting in 240p is probably going to take a hit. (unless some HD sets offer single feild deinterlacing rather than 2-fields=1 frame)
Dedicated SD LCD sets seem to be better on average than HD sets, but I'm not sure if they offer single field deinterlacing either. (mine seems like it might as I can see combing in 480i, but not in games using 240/60p)
CRT HD sets might be somewhat better, but not always. (for 480i, probably, maybe not 320/256x480i, but probablt 720/704/640x480i)
Obviously any console supporting progressive (DC onward, except I think not all GC/Wii games do -some are even 240 like VC, and only digital out early model GCs will have it too)
Still, I maintain that a good multisync VGA monitor (or HD CRT) is the best option for modern HD/ED gaming.
My 26" displays Sega CD games and older just fine. I played through Lunar II on it.
Hey sega fan, check your PM's, man. Sorry to interrupt. Discuss.
I've got a Pioneer Kuro 50" (not the Elite) and while it's supposed to be pretty good with burn-in I still worry about using my Genesis on it.
I can't stand playing with the game stretched, and 4:3 mode leaves two black bars on each side...
The other thing that bothers me is that old games look too good. Old game art was designed with low quality displays in mind and many of the pixel art patterns and color choices don't translate well on a perfect HDTV.
So, I guess I'm interested 1) should I worry about burn-in from running at 4:3 mode, and 2) are there any hardware video scalers that will emulate CRT-type video aesthetics (e.g. scanlines).
OK, so before I start I'd like to say that I think people need to quit whining about CRTs being the only way to do it. Let's face it-- games ARE going to keep moving on, and we're going to eventually NEED to have HD... I'd give a generation or two and it'll be mandatory. For people like me who mix new and old consoles but definitely don't have the space to keep a CRT around (especially not in our bedrooms, which is my issue), HDTVs are going to have to cut it. And I'd say if you get the right one, you're not losing much apart from lightgun capability.
I've got a cheap-a-licious 22 inch Insignia LCD HDTV. 720p. Despite the old "you get what you pay for" saying, it's a great TV and old systems look pretty good on it. The pixels are maybe not as distinctly separated compared to CRTs, but there's no input lag, no image ghosting, and if you don't sit right in front of it then it doesn't look that far off from the 26 inch Panasonic CRT I have in my basement. It even lets me adjust the aspect ratio, so if a system isn't showing in 16:9 it doesn't stretch it unless I specifically tell it to.
Some systems do look better than others, I'll admit-- the differences in their composite encoders is much more noticeable than on CRTs. For instance, the NES, Saturn, and TG16 give a much crisper image than the Genesis, which gives a decent image, and the PS1, SNES, N64, and Gamecube show up the blurriest, though still not that bad. It's not the end of the world, not even close. I'll try to get some example pictures sometime if my camera's up to it.
Thing is, the decent name of LCDs gets smeared around by the sets that actually do have poor scalers (like this 17 inch noname LCD I've got in my basement... it's horrible, it doesn't even display HDMI input without making it look like a bad JPEG image). Just get the right one, and it's -fine-. I like the ultra crisp pixellyness of a CRT just as much as the next guy, but if I can live my life playing on an LCD from now on and not be bothered one bit by it... so can you!
PC gamers have already been HD since the late 90s. (or games at least supported it) ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Ksoft
I still think goo, versitile, multisync CRT HD sets and VGA monitors are preferable if possible. (and if set to 60 Hz, should work with old light gun games too)Quote:
I've got a cheap-a-licious 22 inch Insignia LCD HDTV. 720p. Despite the old "you get what you pay for" saying, it's a great TV and old systems look pretty good on it. The pixels are maybe not as distinctly separated compared to CRTs, but there's no input lag, no image ghosting, and if you don't sit right in front of it then it doesn't look that far off from the 26 inch Panasonic CRT I have in my basement. It even lets me adjust the aspect ratio, so if a system isn't showing in 16:9 it doesn't stretch it unless I specifically tell it to.
No scaling whatsoever, while LCDs degrade when not in native resolution. (albeit when scaling a much lower res, it's not really an issue, especially on 1080p sets)
It varies from model to model, some model 2 genesis systems (with the samsung ship) have awful composite, the genesis 3 and some late model 2s have almost as good as SNES. (let alone s-video or RGB -the latter being slightly sharper than on SNES in RGB, s-video still being generally better on SNES I think)Quote:
Some systems do look better than others, I'll admit-- the differences in their composite encoders is much more noticeable than on CRTs. For instance, the NES, Saturn, and TG16 give a much crisper image than the Genesis, which gives a decent image, and the PS1, SNES, N64, and Gamecube show up the blurriest, though still not that bad. It's not the end of the world, not even close. I'll try to get some example pictures sometime if my camera's up to it.
RF is another issue, with early model 1s being especially poor. (compared to SNES/NES/Atari VCS)
Scalers, and deinterlacing hardware. (again, I don't know if any support single feild 240p display, but it seems liek our SD LCD just might, due to th elack of combing/blurring on 240p games -while being obvious in much 480i content exceeding 30fps -ie DTV converted to SDTV by a converter box)Quote:
Thing is, the decent name of LCDs gets smeared around by the sets that actually do have poor scalers (like this 17 inch noname LCD I've got in my basement... it's horrible, it doesn't even display HDMI input without making it look like a bad JPEG image). Just get the right one, and it's -fine-. I like the ultra crisp pixellyness of a CRT just as much as the next guy, but if I can live my life playing on an LCD from now on and not be bothered one bit by it... so can you!
My father has a 50in Plasma made by Panasonic that... actually looks reasonably good with the Mega Drive when feeding it S-Video (Composite was a joke), assuming any filters were turned off (In fact, the Wii's Component when emulating a Mega Drive game at 240p actually looked worse; can't beat the original, eh?).
Though, it still had deinterlacing issues... that, and, you know, you should NEVER try playing a Mega Drive game on anything bigger then 32in if you want to maintain any sanity.
I've yet to find anything that looks like ass through my Panasonic plasma, even my 2600 through RF looks damn good!
More recently I've been piping the NES through composite...
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b.../megmanvie.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/b...om/robocop.jpg
That looks tight mick! It doesn't look rescaled at all, actually Robocop 2 looks amazing. But how does it play? Do you usually play in 4:3?
I tried Fireshark on a Panasonic and it was much more difficult because of the aspect ratio (also, the menu had a tendency to burn in for several minutes).
Itch dee smitsch pee.. It's all marketspeak. If you're a purist go with a CRT, for the rest of us emulators+bilinear filtering is good enough. 17Days would endorse this message :P