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is the dumbest thing ever? i work with kids and am into fitness and all i hear from them and their parents is that wiifit can replace regular exercise to lose weight because of the commercials and what others say.
what they dont bring up for is the calorie deficit you need to actually obtain that weight loss, and the miniscule amount of moving around isn't actually all that helpful, you'd be better off just doing a low calorie diet and sticking to it then just waving your arms around.
thoughts?
none.
The Wii is just an uncreative way to get cute girls to shake a phallic object and do ridiculous yoga and exercises in the house.
Anything involving children, obese women or any men is a failure.
If you want phallic just buy them one of these. They are way cheaper.
I do not intend to dignify Wii Fit's existence by forming an opinion on it.
Just get the Robot Chicken "Humping Robot" game for it. :D
*waits for 17days to show up*
The entire Wii console is made for middle aged parents and 7 year olds. Thus, as a young adult hardcore gamer, I cannot have a valid opinion of this matter.
I shall try to fill in for him... with a bit more level-headedness. (No offense to 17days)Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey the Cat
The Wii is going to Crash and Burn, all because of that a lack of quality in most modern games, the ridiculously lucrative market size that everyone wants into (I went into a bass pro shop and they were selling a fishing game with their brand for the Wii... with logicless plastic controller attachments of course), and the fact the other consoles are trying to imitate it, I smell a new game crash of '83.
Unless, the "casual" demographic just doesn't care about quality and never does... then we're screwed six ways from Sunday without a way to get back. (which only a crash would do; the crash can't happen if people keep buying)
where the fuck have all of you been in EVERY SINGLE Wii THREAD? Seriously, every time someone else brings up the Wii, you all pounce your hate on it, but if I bring it up, it's nothing but IP, Elusive, and KD up my ass.
Dant pretty much nailed my sentiment. OK, maybe Wiis are flying off the shelves, but like Razor scooters, it's a hollow victory. The kind of people clamoring for the Wii are not the same devoted fans buying XBOX 360s and PS3s. Literally every person I know that owns a Wii and has had it more than a month or two either hates it or just outright sold it. Like Razor scooters, everyone will move on and then Nintendo will have nothing but apathetic "casual gamers" and burned hardcore players that aren't going to let themselves be burned again. If Nintendo didn't profit off of every Wii console, I bet they would be somewhere near bankruptcy at this point as most of the people that DO like the Wii only have Sports and 1-2 other games. Almost every Nintendo fan I know has pretty much given up on Nintendo at this point.
This needs to be made, NOW!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly Willy
Nice to see 17days calling for a PG reunion :) Avengers, ASSSSSEEEEMMMBBBLLLEE!Quote:
Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes
I actually agree with the TC. Wii Fit is pretty ridiculous. It's a bit irresponsible for Nintendo to market the Wii Fit as a weight loss solution to gamers. Let's all be honest here, the amount of physical activity required from the game doesn't exactly equal that of going out an playing, much less a full work out.
Still, Wii Fit isn't marketed towards you, the "core" gamer, so what's the problem? And why the heck am I the guy who always has to call 17days on his BS? Nintendo bankrupt? Only Wii Sports and two other games? Doesn't explain these sales numbers:
Paper Mario - 2.89 Mil
Mario Kart Wii - 20.84 Mil (Holy Toledo!)
Metroid Prime 3 - 1.55 Mil
Super Smash Bros. Brawl. - 9.7 Mil
Wii Sports Resort - 12.81 Mil
Super Mario Galaxy - 8.46 Mil
New Super Mario Bros. Wii - 10.54 Mil
Punch Out - 1 Mil
Legend Of Zelda (Wii version) - 5.45 Mil
Mario Strikers - 2.7 Mil
Wii Play 26.63 Mil
Wii Fit - 22.6 Mil
Wii Fit Plus - 8.95 Mil
Yeah... they're doing fine. No need to worry 17days!
I don't really care about the Wii one way or another. I just smile and nod when friends and family want to play it. There's a few games I enjoy playing for a laugh, but not much else.
One of the things I hate the most about the Wii, until Wii Motion Plus came out, was how unresponsive the motion controls were. I could never get a strike in Wii Sports Bowling because the ball ALWAYS spun to the left. No matter what I did, it never, ever went straight. More recently, I can never get a good score in the rock band sections of Rayman Raving Rabbids 2.
My tolerance for the Wii has drastically increased since Wii Motion Plus came out. It's really helped make the motion controls more responsive. Too bad there's only one good game out that uses it (Wii Sports Resort). Still, until Nintendo remembers which side it's bread is buttered on (the hardcore side), I won't be putting much hope in the Wii.
Is that for North America or Worldwide?Quote:
Paper Mario - 2.89 Mil
Mario Kart Wii - 20.84 Mil (Holy Toledo!)
Metroid Prime 3 - 1.55 Mil
Super Smash Bros. Brawl. - 9.7 Mil
Wii Sports Resort - 12.81 Mil
Super Mario Galaxy - 8.46 Mil
New Super Mario Bros. Wii - 10.54 Mil
Punch Out - 1 Mil
Legend Of Zelda (Wii version) - 5.45 Mil
Mario Strikers - 2.7 Mil
Wii Play 26.63 Mil
Wii Fit - 22.6 Mil
Wii Fit Plus - 8.95 Mil
If Worldwide, I'd say Nintendo is in trouble. The most common number of Wii consoles sold I've heard for Worldwide is 56.14 Million. A lot of the games you listed aren't even half the number of Wii's sold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes
Quote:
Originally Posted by InternalPrimate
Well, I admit I didn't make this evident, but I was thinking that like the crash of '83 the real problems would hit hard and quickly. i.e. Today's sale figures are worthless when it finally hits. However, in the same light Nintendo would not be bankrupt even if they did go down the route of subsidizing the cost. It would be rather the reliance of the fickle "casual" market, which would abandon them, that would cause the crash.
that's what I was trying to say, but IP of course has to go "OMGZ, TEH NUMBERZ!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Dant
If he paid attention to my Razor scooter analogy, maybe he would realize his number post was irrelevant.
Also, for my smartphone=new casual gaming mecca, it's going to take a few years, it's not like Wii is going in the toilet 5 seconds after one person gets an iPhone. But trust me, when the time comes that smartphones fully embrace games as a legitimate feature and selling point, the Wii will be nothing more than a superfluous waste of time (somewhere around the time they start supporting TV out for games and bluetooth controllers officially). I mean, you could literally run ports of most Wii games on an iPhone plugged into a TV with a/v cables and using a bluetooth controller if Apple supported it. Why go buy another $200 system when the hardware is in your pocket already?
Was that a serious comment? Name one PS2 game that sold a third the number of PS2s worldwide sales. You can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guntz
To put it into better perspective: Modern Warfare 2 has sold a little over 15 million copies worldwide thus far, the combined sales for PS3 and 360 console being close to 70 million. Any game that sells over 1 million copies is usually seen as a success.
And 17days, my numbers argument is entirely relevant. Your Razor scooter analogy is essentially comparing scooters sold to Wii consoles sold, not the number of attached software. Again, and I'll highlight this for you buddy, you wrote "If Nintendo didn't profit off of every Wii console, I bet they would be somewhere near bankruptcy at this point as most of the people that DO like the Wii only have Sports and 1-2 other games"
.
As I proved, even if Nintendo were to take a loss on every console sold, based on their software sales alone they would see profits (and I didn't list half the games they've published). Not really close to bankruptcy like you pretend.
How can Nintendo even be in trouble? Fuckers are making bank with the DS and Wii.
Seconded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Venture
I don't see a 1983 type crash occuring though, that type of market situation hasn't existed since ~1990 with Nintendo. (and indeed, I think another crash might have been possible had compatition -ie Genesis- not been successful, albeit not quite as bad as the 1983 one due to some differences, but more complex as well)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dant
The current market has 2 strong competitors in MS and Sony (only Sony in Japan), such that, if the Wii dives (ie people stop buying software after the first few games -even less for the "uber casual" crowd) the market will not follow. (plus there's the handheld market)
Atari had like 80% of the market when they had their problems in the early 80s, commodore was a catylist that made the crash as sever as it was. (especially with Atari screwing up with it's own computer line in 1982/83)
Had Coleco, Mattel (and others) taken up more than 50% of the market things could have been quite different. (healthy copetition, necessary for an oligopolistic market to function properly -the problem being that it was a monopoly with Atari -and then with Nintendo in Japan/US with FC/NES -and pretty close with the PS2 -especially in Japan) Hell even if atari had held only 60% it could have made a huge difference.
You do indeed have a point about the market share, but you have to keep in mind that the wii is gaining and that the current-gen is expected to be here for a while. Maybe I did go a little overboard saying it would be exactly like the '83 crash but I still see a crash happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by kool kitty89
Also, about Commodore being a catalyst with (I'm assuming) their computer line.... just throwing this out there, might not be relevant.
http://www.onlive.com
Go read up on the crash of '83, Atari's popularity worked against them to a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Metal_Sonic
I see this happening somewhat, really what we're seeing is the combination of multiple devices, i.e. "Why have a phone, handheld game console, and music/video player in seperate devices?", this will give portables a run for their money but, not consoles... after all since when has a portable console caused the lack of popularity with a home console... I haven't seen any.Quote:
Originally Posted by 17daysolderthannes
You act like the PS3 and 360 don't exist.
The people in the apartment above me sure seem to love it.
*POUNDPOUNDPOUNDPOUNDPOUNDPOUNDPOUND*
Maybe so, but the only thing the Coleco and Intellivision did back in the day was try to do the exact same thing (think Natal and...... whatever that PS3 motion controller was, my memory seems to fail quite often) as Atari, so it created a situation where people thought they were all the same and gave up on them completelyQuote:
Originally Posted by Metal_Sonic
LMFAOQuote:
Originally Posted by snakesqzns
The what and the what? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Metal_Sonic
Just kidding! I've got the PS3. I'll probably get a Wii when Nintendo drops it to the price is SHOULD be given the level of tech it uses: sub-$100. :p
I don't see how Nintendo tricked people into spending almost $300 for a minor update to the GameCube, which was selling for $50 at the time. Guess most people are stupid.
The only folks I know who bought the Wii bought it for one reason: homebrew. The Wii was very quickly broken to run first GameCube homebrew, then Wii homebrew. It's got a pretty decent homebrew scene.
I'm sorry, but what you just stated is just face-palmingly dumb. The Genesis sold 40 million units, and it's best selling-game was Sonic 2 at 6 million. A game is a huge success when it sells 1 million units. So for a system to only have 54 million units sold have games that have sold 23 and 26 million is pretty astonishing. No system before it has ever had games that has sold half the number of system sold, unless it were some kind of pack-in game, and even then no. And these games are retail, which shows how well Nintendo's doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guntz
Nintendo pretty much destroyed everything and everyone in this console war with the 1-2 punch of DS and Wii.
Yeah, I just noticed. I didn't turn on my brain when I posted that... :daze:Quote:
Originally Posted by Baloo
A couple of things: There were over dozens of consoles released in the past. Too many systems, extremely low quality games, and anyone could make games for all the systems. There was no quality control. Nowadays we don't have those problems(I'm talking about this gen). Each system has enough exclusives that sways purchases and the multi platform games are strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dant
The quality of the games were in 83 god awful. E.T? Pacman? Come on, give the current gen a little credit, I could make a page long list of all the good games this gen. To say a game like Wiifit and the like will cause some catastrophic crash of the gaming industry is far fetched. Shit, there was no "crash" in 83. The C64 was around, the arcade was strong, and the NES came out in 85. There wasn't any two drought of games, the gaming scene didn't die, the console front just collapsed.
Two things hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Metal_Sonic
1. About quality control, do you see most of the Wii's games? They're shovelware, crap that was served in a DVD case to make a quick buck, Very little difference from then, also there were awesome games back then too, but they were less common (or seemed so because of all the crap) and due to the lack of education with most of the market ("casual" is just a new name for the people that bought Atari back then and didn't care to read reviews, while this was supplanted due to the lack of the internet even to day most do not want to read reviews) among the targeted audience a crash happened
2. I want a crash to happen, as you said it didn't destroy the gaming scene in fact, I believe that it would help the gaming industry by ushering in a new era of quality.
Why play Wiifit when you can go outside and run around or use one of those cheap step aerobic things?
1. That's why I used "this gen", not "the Wii". Look, fucking Quaker Oats had a game division back in the the day, Quaker Oats had a game division. Anyone could make a game and release which overloaded the markets with pure shit. You say it yourself, good games are more common nowadays and it's because of some form of quality control. Now, we have reviews and an extremely fast word of mouth. New Sonic game blows dick? Make a thread and almost all who read it won't buy it. Games are just better now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dant
2. You want a crash to happen. Are your expectations of games so fucked up that games that come out now are so bad that you want an entire industry to fail? Don't give me the "Look at all the shovelware!" argument. You aren't buying it and it doesn't cause good games to disappear. We still have good games released that at worth every penny. Shovelware has always existed, bad games have always existed, and for every console. It isn't a current event.
Nintendo isn't going to crash the market. Most of the dopes talking about the "crash o' 83" weren't even born then much less old enough to know what the hell a market crash was. Hell a lot of them weren't even around for the "crash o' 93" (remember that one?). Things have changed quite a bit since then guys. And Nintendo isn't stupid enough to run more copies of a game than they have systems sold.
Here's an excerpt from page 105 in the book "Hight Score":
'..... Atari produced more Pac-Man cartridges than there were systems. When asked why, one Atari manager said that they thought people would want to have a second copy at their ski house. Yes, someone said that.'
Agreed, the ignorance being thrown around in this thread is staggering.Quote:
Originally Posted by old man
The big difference now isn't so much quality control as it is awareness, at least for any but the most "casual"/ignorant consumers. There are tons of reviews, gameplay videos,
and often demos available.
I disagree about exclusives though, as far as the PS3/360, it's been more generic than ever before, TONS of cross platform games (including many of the best), and most of those end up on PC as well. (some ending up on PC+360 or PC+PS3 as well, etc)
And no, I wasn't around for the '83 crash, and I was really young for the "93 crash." But I've read into it a lot, and I think the monopolistic situation has more to do with it than anything else. The lack of lockout on the consoles was one thing, but Atari owning such a large portion of the market was the main problem, the "glut" of games (3rd party and a fair bit of 1st party clunkers) and management problems (not starting to be addressed until late 1983 by James Morgan).
I've also discussed a lot of this a length over at atariage. (including discussions with sever in the business at the time, and some of the Atari historians -like Curt Vendel)
The home computer market really pushed things over the edge (adter the problems with atari put the market there). Especially the C64 (with prace war between TI and CBM driving cost close to that of game consoles) The fact that Mattel, Coleco, adn Atari all scrweded up with their home computers made the situation worse. (Atari 8-bit was th emost established, and also the only one to recover somewhat, but was still hurt a lot, and it cost them any real competition against the C64 -ie had the 600/800XL been released at the time the 1200XL had been, in qoantity and at a fairly competitive price)
The Aquarius was a bit weak in general, but the Adam could have been MUCH better (simpler, more like the MSX, with simple console form factor, etc -no pack-in printer or built-in drives)
Anyway, this is way off topic.
But I do agree that the shovelware of today is a bit of a different situation. (again, more to do with accesible information that quality control IMO)
In fact, one of the bigger isues of lacking control (ie lock out) has to do with profits and facilitation of the razor and blade model. Game hardware manufacturers need to find a way to prevent unlicenced software, and thus profit off licencing royaltees. (in the VCS's case, the possibility of 3rd party developers hadn't even been considdered, hence lawsuits against Activision and such when it did occur)
Pac man was overproduced as it was expected to improve sales (and have a near 100% adaption rate). -Perhaps if it had been Ms Pac Man quality, it would have been different. (and been great as the standard pack-in, rather than mediocre)
ET was overproduced because that was the fewest number of carts they could produce and profit from with the hefty licencing fee Warner paid. (hence why Atari themselves had turned down the licence when the offer was too high -Warner overriding them, and Spielberg adding the condition that the game had to be finished by that christmas)
DO note that the 7800 finally added a proper lockout system. (and not as expensive or finicky as Nintendo's soultion -but a ROM header necessary to boot the games -which was the later mechanism used by most other cart consoles iirc)
Also, I think the whole "nintendo saved the market" thing is BS, the market was already well on it's way to recovery, Intev managed to sell as many consoles after the crash as Mattel had prior, and Atari began selling the 2600 Jr in mid 1985 (prior to Nintendo's -medocer- test market), according to Michael Katz the 2600 Jr sold out and was qouting that they "could have sold a hell of a lot more" if their supply hand't been as limited. (the 7800 finally being released the following Spring, a couple months before the NES made it's nationwide launch with Mario pack-in, I beleive the SMS followed shortly after Nintendo's launch in early fall of '86) And the 7800 sold surprisingly well given the very limited marketing and software releases. (well over 3 million in the US by 1989 iirc)
It wasn't until a bit after that launch with the mario release that Nintendo really started moving. (but that happened relatively fast, within a year of launch in 1986 they pretty much owned the US market -and already had owned Japan)
Well, I don't have a feeling one way or the other for the actual Wiifit game, but my gf uses the Yourself Fitness "game" that came out on the XBOX.
I'd probably consider that better than the anything on Nintendo's system.
I think the good ol' NES power pad would tend to be better for aerobics overall, well untill one resorts to cheating and slapping his/her hands instead. ;) (or someone wears shoes and breaks it)
Seems liek both will result in hearing "thumpin' and shit" (as James Rolf so elequently put it) for any room on a story directly below the user's. :p
And for the record, I highly doubt the industray is headed for any significant crash, there may be some fads and gimicks out there, and some hardware that needs more refinement, but I don't think that would have any kind of result leading to a formal market crash. (in the extreme it might decline like the Sega CD did in the US related to the overemphesis on FMV -the difference being that the Wii has a MUCH bigger market share, and much stronger support -though one could argue the number of "good" games available for it compared to the SCD)
WTF are you talking about here?Quote:
Originally Posted by old man
You mean all those systems that came out in the early 90's but got shit support or went nowhere?
Yeah thats no crash, just companies testing the waters and see if they could get a piece of the action too.
Meh, I give up. Really, I didn't see a reason to win the argument, I just wanted to make a point. If the majority want to disagree... let them. Heck, I might even be wrong if so... it's not the end of the world.
The media invented the "crashes" on a slow day when they needed a story. They also don't understand business at all. I lived through both so-called crashes, and at the time nothing significant really occurred. People stopped buying Atari 2600 in mass quantities? That happens to every platform eventually. It's not a crash, it's the life-cycle of the system. The end-of-life part of the cycle occurred in close order for a couple REALLY old systems, but that was not the market crashing, it was the natural end of the systems. Others took their place and the cycle continued.